Poland Is A Gem In Europe

Living in Poland has opened my eyes to some interesting differences between here and the USA.

Poland feels much safer overall, though the current situation with Ukraine is a concern. In the US, I witnessed issues like political tension and social problems.

Economically, things seem stable in Poland. Many people here drive nice cars, and the standard of living feels good. I'm curious about the debt situation, though.

Polish cities are vibrant. Customer service is generally efficient, and families seem to enjoy a strong sense of community. The parks are full of life, especially in summer, and there's a genuine sense of safety that I appreciate.

The food in Poland is delicious and healthier than what I'm used to in the US. People here tend to be slimmer on average.
. Poland has a rich history and strong cultural identity, which I find admirable.

Polish people are generally friendly and helpful. The men here strike me as strong and protective, while the women are known for their beauty and confidence. However, I've also observed some family dynamics that differ from what I'm used to, especially between mothers and daughters. It can be heaven or hell.

Overall, Poland is a great place to live. The quality of work seems excellent here, and the country offers a good standard of living. These are just my observations, of course. I see people driving more expensive cars here than on average in the USA and I wonder if they are in debt to have appearances or whether they are economically prosperous.

Oh boy... Family in Poland... Yeah... lol


;D


Yup...

Btw, could you go into details about the differences in family dynamics in the US and Poland? I've never lived abroad, so I'm curious what it's like in other countries :)

Yes, many people are in debt and very few have any significant savings.

As an Irish person, I find the quality of Polish meat and dairy produce quite low compared to Ireland but it has improved a lot in recent years.

As for the other things you mention, take the opportunity to travel to other European countries if you can and you'll see the same differences between them and the USA.

notesfrompoland.com/2021/01/21/a-quarter-of-poles-have-no-savings/

I've got an impression that's an increasing problem everywhere, unfortunately: 🤔

centralbank.ie/news/article/irish-households-become-the-fourth-most-indebted-in-europe

breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-public-debt-of-42000-euro-per-person-very-significant-for-small-country-1591722.html


Yup, although not every country will be as family-oriented, so to speak, as Poland. And as safe, but probably safer than the US, I imagine...

According to this table it doesn't seem to be so bad in Poland, btw, at least in comparison to other countries in Europe:

statista.com/statistics/1073593/household-debt-ratio-europe-by-country/

Poland is at the bottom of the table with over 40%, while Ireland has 91.81% and the Netherlands is at the top with 187.63% of household indebtedness in the first quarter of 2023 o_O

I'd be wary about the stats. There are a lot of smaller and less reputable credit providers. I doubt they're included.

There's also things like mortgage length to take into consideration.

@jon357, I've checked other stats too and in one table it was Switzerland at the top (don't know what year though) - but, again, Poland was at the bottom.


The thing is - I live in Poland and that's also my real life observation on the ground. That's why I decided to verify Atch's comment, because something didn't add up for me... 🤔

I live in Poland too, and I've seen quite a few people palpably overstretch themselves with consumer credit. Sometimes from very dodgy credit providers.

And of course mortgages tend to be shorter in length than many other countries, and there's a relatively high level of real estate inheritance.

Both you and Atch live in Warsaw though, as far as I understand - I think that may be a factor :) I get an impression that people living in Warsaw often have a bit of a different mentality regarding money and material things, than where I live, for example... Sometimes shockingly so... 🤔


Yup, I think that may be an important factor.

Yip. Also, most people I know do the most financially idiotic thing on Earth - they buy new cars on credit. I mean private individuals, for companies and business owners favourable tax regulations apply, so that's a bit different. They do it because they're just not willing to wait, save and buy for cash. In our family my Dad and I are the only people who buy our wheels for cash. Everyone else, including those who are significantly worse off, take out expensive car loans.

Also, I cannot help but wonder how people making around average salaries (about 8.5k pln gross), and still having mortgages/car loans, feel that they simply have to go on foreign vacation twice a year. I blame social media idiocy for that, and it's so sad - instead of saving, investing and building a better, safe financial future for their families, they are trying to "impress" strangers on social media. Mind boggles.

Statistically, it may not be as bad as in the West yet, but we are heading in exactly the same direction at the moment.

Perhaps that's part of it, though most people I know aren't from there and aren't korpo people or all of them particularly middle class.But yes, there's a sort of materialism there, the newest phone, fancy holidays etc.

I do remember once in Chrzanów (I took a photo and wish I still had it) seeing a door at the back of a building with a sign saying "Kedyt dla nierzetelnych". The same sort of things exist almost everywhere but in this case I liked how it was phrased.

That's one factor for sure. But I think it's also a kind of need for "insta-gratification". People want everything "now".


Yeah, it looks like it.


One doesn't have to be from Warsaw. That city does things to you ;P


You don't have to be the corpo type or middle class. My impression is that it affects all "classes". "Poorer" people in Warsaw seem to be even more self-conscious about not being able to afford things - at least that was my experience in Warsaw.

I see that all the time.


Hehe, true. My two closest friends for decades in PL are actually both from the city. Both "generational Warsaw" (i.e. their families are from there rather than coming to the city after WWII) and they are both very down to earth. Other people I know tend to come from villages or small towns, have good jobs in the capital and are under some social and cultural pressure to succeed and have the visible trappings of success. None are crazily materialistic like some of the people you see out and about or for that matter some of my neighbours who are all rich, very rich or extremely rich and like to show that.


What gets me sometimes is how people on very modest incomes are absolutely stretched for credit. I see that in the U.K. too. A certain type who have to have the particular type of furniture or the holidays in Dubai or the fancy car and pay most of their salaries on that.

Sad but true.

And it's not even about financial illiteracy - many of them know very well that they hurt themselves immensely in the long run, but still they decide to go into debt.

Indeed, that is why forces that are pulling down the west are working their satanic plans to pull Poland down.

There are instances though when people take a loan or pay "na raty" to buy something that is needed now, because they simply don't have enough cash. I don't think there's anything wrong with that if it's important and reasonable. For example, when me and my brother were at school my mother took a loan to buy us a computer. Thanks to that I didn't have to go to an internet cafe every time I needed something for homework from the internet and I improved my French and I got better grades. That was some special loan given by her workplace or sth. She paid off the loan and we had a computer at home. No problems, no drama.

Yes, the example that you gave is connected with education, and education is one of very few things that is definitely worth going into debt for (in most cases).

What I was talking about was people who take out loans to buy new cars or pay for foreign holidays with credit cards, for example. In other words, buying things they can't afford for money they don't have.

And capitalists together with their conservative stooges absolutely love that because people have so many payments to make that they can't afford to go on strike or walk out of a job.

The same thing is happening in countries where leftist parties rule. Moreover, I would say - observing the people I know - that those leaning politically more towards right are generally more thrifty and financially responsible than others.

Despite their best efforts, the materialist propaganda from capitalism is relentless.


I'd say mostly the opposite, though thriftiness isn't a virtue, unless you want to be buried in a gold coffin.

I really hate that.I would not call myself rich, but very well off is about right.I bet none of my neighbours would even guess that because we live fairly frugally.They would probably think that we are "Quite well off".

It is indeed a virtue, albeit a forgotten one.


Or unless you want to leave something for your children, to spare them the fate of being mortgage slaves in their adult lives. Then thrift and financial responsibility help a lot.

More a negative trait and hardly forgotten given the number of people that are tighter than a gnat's chuff.


A work ethic. Let them earn for themselves. They'll get the house to sell anyway.

There's a difference between being thrifty and being tight. Socialists, however, love to spend money (preferably that of other people). :)


Why? If I can spare them the fate of mortgage slaves, I will do it. Think about the amount of stress that they will avoid. It will allow them to concentrate more on their studies, professional development etc. and will give them more freedom in their choice of jobs and careers.


Good option for an only child whose parents die early - very rarely the case. With longer lifespans the "kids" can wait until they are 60-65 before their parents kick the bucket :) Also, nobody wants their kids to be waiters... waiting for them to die. :)

Of course. It's society's money, generated by the people.


In my experience, one generation makes the money, the second lives on it and does nowt and the third spends it all.


I'm sort of there now. I'd rather have a parent alive than the house though, and rather have had nice holidays than eventually inheriting an 80s McMansion with Artex ceilings.

People have to balance spending with prudence. Sometimes spending money on pure enjoyment is an investment into the Bank of Memories. Better that than being tight with money just so you can spawn another generation of skinflints.

Tusk being in charge means it going to be a crisis and Poland will face economic downfall. No doubt about it.

lol xD


High level of savings is hardly the problem in the US and Europe these days; people drowning in idiotic consumer debt is.


Another reason to have financial reserves in case of crisis rather than splurge on "Bank of Memories" (nice memories of repaying debt with interest for many years lol).

Yes, better to produce items at a lower cost without foreign investors sucking 'profit' out. And if people borrow, better to do so without someone skimming 'profit' from their loans.


Why "splurge". Nobody's suggesting the Ritz Hotel. A nice workers holiday camp will do.

Remember, there's no individual wealth. It derives from society and is sadly frequently expropriated by the greedy.

Because people on average wages going on foreign holidays twice a year and paying for it with credit cards is exactly that - splurging. If you can't afford to pay for holidays in cash, you don't go or you choose something cheaper.


Exactly! Go for something modest (if you can't afford luxury) and pay in cash. We are basically saying the same thing.


Of course there is. It can be inherited or it comes from self-discipline, hard work and thrift. Individual wealth is what modern civilisation was built on. The opponents of it invented gulags but that's hardly something to be proud of.

You can have a nice holiday at home as we've both said. Of course if Trade Unions or Workers' Collectives opened holiday camps abroad, like the Methodists have in Formentera, prices could be lower.


And still deriving from society and people selling their labour to exploiters.


Or held back by.


Tsarist r*SSia (which invented the Gulag system) wasn't an opponent of capitalist exploitation. Far from it even.