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Child abuse in Poland

Ironside 47 | 9,497    
12 May 2019  #31
like the priest who woul a valid criminal record to conduct a service because it was HIS chapel.

Sound like manipulation a phrase out of context. The Church has it their own laws and regulation laws, bishop makes decisions based on those and info they have got. From a moral point of view there is nothing wrong to give someone a sound chance.

There is no law that would ban people with a criminal record to find an employment. So, I don't know what you are trying to say or what is your complain about. You should make it clear because what you actually said was incredibly weak as an argument and frankly sounded quite dumb.

Some of the stories and accounts of child abuse are truly shocking......

I'm sure they are. However there is a line between being concerned about child abuse by priests statically very low percentage and a ideological propaganda war waged against the Church and religion.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
12 May 2019  #32
Here you go, defending the church. One of my teacher colleagues was done for child filth on his computer. He was banged up double sharp I can tell you - cut and dried within 6 weeks. He obviously should have spent 7 years in theological college - then he wouldn't have spent any time in prison. And there is a world of difference in the essential question oif betrayal of trust, between priests or school teachers sexually abusing children and a supposedly similar percentage of lorry drivers doing the same.

Parents trust the first two with their children, but would be astonished if a lorry driver said "I need to take your child for an hour of extra tuition, or whatever....."

Watch the film Ironside - then comment.
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
12 May 2019  #33
I think that there is more that could be done to supplement video evidence....a change in the law and the will to change the current status quo will make a really comes down to how badly people want this abuse problem in the church to be sorted out...if you have the will to do things (such as government, police and the prosecutors office) then a lot can be achieved but everyone needs to be on the right side....if there is no will then progress against abusers it will never happen....
kaprys 1 | 1,605    
13 May 2019  #34
It's not about finding employment. It's about convicted pedophiles working with children. It's about priests who were banned from celebrating masses but still do.

Have you seen the documentary? Please do. And you'll hear that priest talking about his private chapel. I could tell you when these words are spoken but it'd be better if you watch everything - including now retired priests admitting to what they did. Watch Dariusz who has dożywotni zakaz pracy z dziećmi, yet is in charge of rekolekcje.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,644    
13 May 2019  #35
And it's stuff like this that's mindblowing. How could this be tolerated?

My impression is that this is just the beginning. How much has been covered up, and what's going to happen when we start looking at what happened in the PRL? And more importantly, how many priests are still working closely with children despite having such things?
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
13 May 2019  #36

This is outmoded nonsense anyway. Children should be given a few passages from the bible to read before Easter and that would surely suffice. Barring that approach, the mother should be given paid leave from work (the state pays her wages), and she escorts her child to the church - rather like Spanish mothers chaperone their children.

If the church refuses to immediately report any accusatory letters from parents directly to the police, then they can't be trusted in this sexalised age, and deserve to be treated with a general suspicion.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,644    
13 May 2019  #37
This is outmoded nonsense anyway.

It's also disruptive nonsense. It should be done in the evening, rather than during the school day.
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
14 May 2019  #38
It's very difficult to know exactly what is happening behind closed doors and unless there is transparency on how the church is organised in terms of its behind the scenes arrangements....including why children are unaccompanied when seeing priests, particularly in private or at different times or places etc. A lot of child abuse often thrives on disadvantaged children and maybe this needs to be investigated. It is absolutely unforgivable that abusers are moved around to avoid prosecution, identification or whatever.....this simple gives other abusers a passport to continue carrying out abuse....there is no deterrent and this will not change their interest in child just simply moves the problem on to another region where they could reoffend.

Need to get Mr Duda has said...'zero tolerance' Finally what about the victims in these cases....they are completely affected and will have to deal with being abused for the rest of their lives....yes we need to deal with the abusers in the church with thorough investigations no stone unturned and complete transparency.... but also to provide support for the in giving evidence....psychiatric care etc.....Maybe victims receive this sort of support already but it would be interesting and helpful if someone fully outlined the procedures in place for detection and support instead of seemingly vague statements made on TV news from people who are simply giving opinions. Much better to have concrete information on what is being done so that the public are reassured and have some sort of idea what is being done. Why isn't there a senior prosecutor appearing on the news who could set out what is being done, the extent of abuse and initiatives in place.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
14 May 2019  #39
as Mr Duda has said...'zero tolerance'

Empty words. Devout parents send accusatory letters to the bishop, not to the police. It's tradition for catholics to respect their priest, but Poles take this way too far to the realms of neglect of parental responsibility. So they write to the bishop, and internal machinations take over. Such letters should be forwarded to the kommisarat - but never are - until the parents make a formal complaint, when the church is obliged to hand over any evidence they have.

Nothing will change Braveheart - it's all empty words. The Polish catholic church is especially backward in it's thinking and as a professor in the film says, Polish bishops act like princes, and nobody will dare to act against them, as it's political suicide.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,644    
14 May 2019  #40
It's particularly disturbing when families believe priests over members of their own family.
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
16 May 2019  #41
Quite interesting listening to the Sejm today, as the politicians are debating pedophilia and the government speakers seem to be comparing child abuse with consenting homosexual adults....amazing...they really do not get it despite other speakers pointing out that PIS are clearly mistaken as to what abuse would seem that they need to look up the definition in the dictionary....Strangely PIS seem to be supporting the idea of moving priests around if they are suspected of committing abuse and are in denial as to the extent of abuse....I agree with one speaker who said that priests should not be treated any differently than any other really is that simple..... The best way to deal with the abuse problem is not let the government get involved and instead appoint an independent all party committee to target abuse committed by priests......
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
16 May 2019  #42
The best way to deal with the abuse problem is call 112.
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
17 May 2019  #43
It would seem that the government has doubled the sentence for child abuse to 30 years.....however that's the easy bit....the difficult bit is to prosecute and convict the hopefully there are strong and robust measures in place for prosecutors and police to intercept and prosecute abusers....
Miloslaw 6 | 1,522    
17 May 2019  #44
It would seem that the government has doubled the sentence for child abuse to 30 years

Sounds good to me.
But as you say, they need to enforce this law.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
17 May 2019  #45
Sounds good to me.

No. Better to address the cause. Do I not speed when the penalty is increased? No - I pay more attention to what I can see in the mirror. The same applies here.

Quite hopeless and outmoded shite. All we get here is Jonny trying some shite, trying to pin child abuse on immigrants. Quite rightly shut off by the Mods and he should be banned for such racist filth.
Rich Mazur 5 | 3,014    
17 May 2019  #46
Simple. Every kid should be wired for audio - a device so small that it can be hidden very easily. Then you tell the priests that they all have them and are monitored and recorded live. End of molesting.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,573    
17 May 2019  #47
Every kid should be wired for audio

The other way round Rich. Kids are innocent. Adults are not.
Rich Mazur 5 | 3,014    
18 May 2019  #48
My brilliant plan is to make the kids part of the law enforcement and, thus, untouchable. Would any pervert go after the kid who is known to be wired with the audio streaming live to a parent who is right outside?

Another question: how do pedophiles get access to the kids?

When I am with any of my granddaughters, I am never further than 10 feet away and they are NEVER out of my sight. Under what conditions could any perv, priests included, even shake hands with them without my approval? I really don't get it.

Discussion must be about Poland, not other countries.
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
4 hrs ago  #49
As a starting point do you think that Bishops and senior clergy who were aware of this scandal should be interviewed and charged with aiding and abetting or joint enterprise or maybe perverting the course of justice....or some related offence. It seems that despite the promised investigation not much is being reported on by the media which would at least provide the public with ongoing information.....what are the views of the church going public who have children....or have the Bishops responded with their side of the story....what do the prosecution service/police say about abuse in general and what knowledge on the child abuse scandal could they share with the public, even on a very limited level just to show that something is being done or has been done in the past or at least to provide some sort of reassurance that this is not something swept under the carpet and that it is being taken seriously....

Have any Bishops/senior clergy been interviewed by police and if so how many and do police expect to interview more...are criminal charges likely to arise. Are the prosecution service taking advice from established child abuse units in other countries....?
NoToForeigners 6 | 958    
3 hrs ago  #50
Can we talk about child abuse among LGBT? Especially about underaged boys getting abused by male homosexualist?
Braveheart16 15 | 117    
1 hr ago  #51
I think that is a valid point but this posting is really about child abuse by priests in Poland.....Maybe the issues with LGBT are another topic altogether and could form a different posting....

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