Poland's birthrate on the decline

Even the good father's I see around usually don't bother themselves with stuff like the kids friends (at the age when parents have to arrange playdates etc) kids medication dosages and restocking, school events etc

In the popular film, Fight Club, there's a piece of dialogue:

"We are a generation of men raised by women, I'm wondering if another woman is really the thing we need..."

In this American movie, the words referred to the epidemic of divorces and single-motherhood in the States, and how it affected the guys.

Whenever I heard this phrase, I actually always thought about my grandparents generation. Who raised my father, who raised me. That was a true generation, raised by women, because most of the men were killed.

What a f*cked up generation, my grandparents generation was. Jesus Christ. The most complexed creatures on Earth.

Greatest Generation my ass.

And I have three of them. I didn't know I was so rich.

Great. So when you as a woman come home late from a construction site or making lorry deliveries all day you will finish the laundry and dishwashing your husband couldn't do because he needed to give more time caring for the children during the day. Yeah, sure you will.


You are wearing blinders and only see that women in traditional countries are not earning as much or more money than men.

In developed economies both genders often need to work multiple jobs to try to get by and even then access to quality of life issues like home ownership and proper medical care are becoming scarcities.


It is sexist, female-chauvinism to assume only a woman has the ability to take care of children and a house and therefore the responsibility is on men to prove they can as well.

Why not give instant joint custody without any litmus test for men only? Oh right, because you are not about to cede any power and privilege that's why.

Statistically, women disproportionately file for divorce compared to men. So if you say you are willing to give up power and privilege then you will agree that no divorce petition should proceed unless both parties give their consent. Therefore in most cases a wife's divorce petition should be denied unless the husband agrees to it. You would agree to this, right?

As I already wrote - sharing responsibilities fairly. That doesn't exclude having common sense. So if one spouse is working and the other stays with the kids at home - it's pretty obvious that the one who stays at home will be doing most of the chores. Having said that - this person will still need a breather from the house work and taking care of kids in order to not go insane.

However, if both parents are working the duties and responsibilities at home should be shared equally - which is often not the case in Poland = working women are doing most of the work at home and they're taking care of children. That's not fair.


Not in Poland.


LOL
Sorry, Poloniusz, but it was you who wrote that "Having men work and having women stay at home to care for children is what works best". So, could you explain it to me why it's "the best" when women stay at home and take care of children and not men?

Why were most of the men killed?

Because men are deemed as expendable and have always been ordered to serve.

There has never been an equal expectation that women should fight to protect the society they live in and benefit from.

Women have only participated on a strictly voluntary basis but most of them don't and wouldn't anyway.

The war in Ukraine is only the latest in a long list of examples of this gender disparity.

Even in situations when women have voluntarily joined the military their pregnancy rates skyrocket when orders are given to deploy and enter into combat. Each and every time.

I'm guessing that the type of custody is being decided by the court on case by case basis depending on the situation. Sorry, but I don't know how it works exactly - I've never been through a divorce.


Sorry, but you're not making sense to me. What does it have to do with "power and privilege"? People should be able to get a divorce if they wish - no matter what is their sex o_O It's a basic right and not some "privilege" lol


Of course not lol o_O

It is fair. If a woman wants a professional career then that is a personal choice. The alternative is to stay home and take care of the children. Since the children are already at home and become more and more self-sufficient each year there is no reason the women can't do chores around the house as well.


Poland is always about a decade out of sync with other countries. Give it time.


There isn't a single instance in history where the female gender was the deciding factor in something meaningful apart from population numbers. And clearly that is a responsibility and job that today's women simply do not want.

Of course it isn't.


It's the same in case of a man. It's the man's "personal choice" too :)))


I'm guessing it's not about time, but about you living in the US. Maybe in the US people need to work multiple jobs. I don't think it's the case in Western Europe. 🤔


In the past women weren't in the position to be anything else than "breeding cows", because they weren't allowed to be anything else by men. In recent years it's been changing. Slowly, but still. So - give it time :)

Yes, and those feminist courts have a lopsided track record of siding with women. Their decisions are not made on a case-by-case basis. The wife and husband would have been deemed equally responsibly during the marriage and therefore joint custody should continue after a divorce.


Your response is so sexist.

You regard divorce as a right but conveniently disregard marriage as a responsibility of both the husband and wife. Why else are vows taken? I know, I know, women don't take vows seriously unless they apply only to the man.

Like I said, women not men are mostly likely to file for divorce. Women wield their "right" to file divorce as a weapon because they know full well that the man will be disadvantaged.


I knew that was your position all along because you don't actually believe in equality between men and women.

Sure, you will say you do but only as long as there is no cost to yourself or other women. And when a situation exists where women have advantages over men you are fine with this and try to convince men that this is what equality is supposed to look like.


Nope. For men, it's a necessity and expectation. Society doesn't look after men. Society expects from men in order to provide to women.


Okay, so give an example in recent years where being a woman rather than a man was the deciding factor in a positive outcome for everyone and not just women. Having representation doesn't count.

You seem to be forgetting that women in the past weren't allowed into the military, even if they wanted to join.

Even these days men in the military or even in the police pretty often aren't terribly enthusiastic about women joining.

Btw:

"Russia is the only nation to deploy female combat troops in substantial numbers. Historically, female recruits either joined the military in disguise or were tacitly accepted by their units. Perhaps the most prominent was a contingent of front-line light cavalry in a Cossack regiment commanded from 1915 to 1917 by a female colonel, Alexandra Kudasheva (1873-1921?). This cavalry regiment fought in WWI and also during the Russian Revolution. and may have been the first gender-integrated regiment in Russian history. She was also noted for her endurance riding feats."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military


How do you know? And which courts are you talking about? In the US? In Poland?


No, I don't. You're talking nonsense.

You paid directly, through taxes, and inflation.


In any confrontation with bad dudes, a woman officer is not as good as a man. She can be overpowered easily and have her gun taken away from her.

Add to it jealousy issues at home and in the office and you have a major problem.

That doesn't put men in a good light as husbands, does it. It looks like marriage is better/more convenient for men than for women. If that changed - maybe there would be less divorces :)


You must be talking about the US.


Again, maybe that's the way in the US - I don't know. Not in Poland though. I'd say that both sexes are expected to work here. Maybe there's more pressure on men to support family, especially in more conservative regions, but it's completely normal for women to work. I was raised in a conservative region by a mother who was raised in the countryside and there was no question about the fact that I'm supposed to get education and a job, preferably a good one. There was no other option.


Women have been contributing in all kinds of fields since when they were allowed to do it.

Like I said before, men are expendable and women are privileged and women have always been fine with this status quo.

Indeed, although women have often publicly protested against war this was only done self-servingly to look virtuous (without any repercussions), to burnish their communist credentials, or selfishly because they feared if their husbands were killed they would have to find another source of income.

Women have never protested for the equal right to fight in war.

Many women have also publicly shamed men who didn't want to fight.

The only other things women throughout history have taken to the streets to protest are the right to vote, the right to have an abortion and for the rights of migrants.


That's because they know it's hard to have and maintain unit cohesion needed for police and military work when someone who is only there to satisfy a diversity metric can't and won't pull their own weight and instead is only interested in creating a toxic work environment based on gossip, seeking entitlement for themselves, and at the same time doing everything to destroy the reputation of others whom they simply don't like for personal reasons.


Why not Poland? After all, Poland has a communist past and is presently feminist.


Reading comprehension. Plenty of information not only on official sites but many such stories told on PF.


Poland but the bias against men and in favor of women can be found all throughout the feminist West.


You said you regard divorce as a basic right and not some privilege. This only confirmed that you believe that the responsibilities of marriage can be disregarded at any time and for any reason. Especially so when you know the courts disproportionately favor women and have done so for decades.

I don't know if men being "expendable" is behind it and to what extent. From nature's point of view maybe it makes sense, because you don't need many men to impregnate many women, I don't know. But I think the main reason why men were soldiers is simply because of their physical strength and predisposition for agression and violence. I guess being soldiers comes more "naturally" to them and for thousands of years being a warrior was a "men's thing". And it's still seen this way. There are also professions that are considered to be "feminine" or "for women", like preschool teachers, cleaning ladies, nurses, caretakers for older people, etc. and I haven't heard about men taking to the streets demanding to be hired as cleaning ladies or nurses. So, it looks like they're "fine with with this status quo".


My God, you're such a f*cked up, prejudiced misogynist. Why are you always attributing only bad intentions to women? You're sick in the head.

No, that's not the reason why some men are not in favour of women in the army and in the police. There are usually two main reasons:

1. As Novichok wrote - women are simply often more petite and physically weaker, so they may not perform in some situations as well as men.

2. Plain misogyny.

Of course there are also police officers and soldiers who don't have a problem with women joining their formations.


Links?


It only confirmed that in my opinion everyone has a right to get a divorce. People shouldn't be forced to stay in a marriage if they don't want to be in it. Do you think they should be forced?

eggs are expensive and precious, sperm is cheap..... everything comes (so to speak from that).

women's reproductive ability is a bottleneck for human development and so both men and women have an inborn or evolved instinct to care more about the lives of fertile young women.

It's part of human nature and good luck changing that.

A society that kills lots of its young men can survive... kill it's young women and it's dead in the water (it's also dead in the water if most young women decide that having babies is a drag).

Mother nature is not a feminist.

It's not so much the expense. It's the productivity.
A man can be a "father" 100 times a year. A woman can be a mother only once.

Working women wanted to "have it all" but now resent "having to do it all".

With that said, what hasn't been discussed is the propensity of women to overstate not just the amount but the quality of work they claim to do at home. Why would any husband want to help with any work if it is obvious to him that the wife is trying to do little or nothing or so poorly in the hope the husband loses his patience and does it himself so then she will never have to?

What also hasn't been discussed is how much money are these so-called "working" women contributing financially to rent/mortgage payments, utility bills, groceries, amount in taxes on personal income (less if women are earning less as they usually claim or less if they are only working part-time or possibly none if they are working strictly for cash)? If men earn more and therefore contribute more financially to the relationship then why on earth should they also have to do manual work around the house for free? Who are the real freeloaders here? (Hint: It's women).


See response above.

Also, can any women guarantee 100% that the children are biologically that of the father/husband they are living with?

No then can't. Or rather no they won't because women always know who the real father is.



If the father/husband has been cucked by an unfaithful wife who was already resentful about the division of house chores then why should he look after another man's child?


Nope. I'm just honest and you are not ready to have an honest conversation.


Feminists have never acknowledged this during their campaigns for power. Their mantra over and over again was women can do anything a man can do and often times their propaganda would do everything to make it look like women can do everything better than men.

And if women know they have physical limitations then they know they are shifting the burden of this back onto men rather than pulling their own weight and sharing equally in the responsibilities of the job. Instead they demand to have jobs they know they are unfit for then scream about discrimination if they don't get it.


Nope. Plain misandry. Read the paragraph above. Women are privileged and want to be catered to and don't care what happens to men as a result.


Do your own homework rather than expecting a man to do it for you. :)


If you believe in gender equality as you claim then a divorce petition should always be filed jointly by both the husband and wife.

It shouldn't be for one party (nearly always women) to file for divorce and then let the courts decide (nearly always in favor of women).

There are more and more surveys showing that women are feeling betrayed by the feminist ethos. As they are lonely and desiring a family in their middle age after buying into the " you don't need a family to be fulfilled" slogan.

The obvious deleterious results of modernity's war against human nature is manifesting itself more and more.

Yes, absolutely.

But nature is cruel and doesn't care.

We evolved to pair bond and have children during a short window of time when both the male and female are young and at their fittest.

Biologically women know this but they believed the hype and thought they would some how stay forever young and had many options at their disposal.

Not so. There are many stories of women freezing their eggs for huge sums of money to delay their "family planning" only to find out the procedure didn't work when they were physically older even though they were mentally "ready to settle down and start a family".

Also, men don't want to settle down with an older women and just hear her talk about the "amazing career" she made for herself while knowing she had dozens and dozens and dozens of sexual partners along the way.

What women don't realize is they have to bring something to the table. But they can't. They know they can't and brazenly believe they shouldn't have to offer a man anything and that he should be grateful to her nonetheless.

Of course - since men have it all, then why women wouldn't?


Of course - since men aren't "doing it all", then why women should?


It's funny how you're accusing women of what men are actually infamously doing. A peculiar case of projecting :)) That is how usually husbands behave, not wives. And it's apparently happening not only in Poland, because such behaviour even got its own name - "weaponized incompetence" :)))


Because earning less doesn't equal spending less time at work and being less tired after work. So, sharing duties at home would be not only a humane thing to do, but also a smart thing to do on the part of the husband, because if apart from working the wife has to do everything at home and remember and think about almost everything then she's too tired and stressed out to have sex with the husband. After years of such marriage she may be so tired, burned out and disconnected from her husband that she will divorce him.

So, as you can see, sharing duties at home by the husband and wife together is also in the interest of the husband.

Also, I don't know what it's like in the US, but in Poland husbands often don't earn much more than wives. For example, my father was earning not much more than my mother and for some time she was earning more than him. And yet, she's been always doing much more at home even though my father had a much less tiring job than her and he was spending a lot of time on watching movies on a laptop at work. Even now, when they're retired, she's still doing more at home and she's the one taking care and playing with their granddaughter and taking her to the playground every freaking time. My father is too lazy to even peel an apple for himself - my mother has to do it for him.

She doesn't have to. What some women do is work around the house to earn the right to nag. "You don't do anything!" When he does, she will be telling him nonstop how to do it.

When she breaks a glass, he asks her if she is OK. When he breaks a glass, she asks him how he could be clumsy.

My wife still doesn't let me handle eggs when we go shopping.

You can do DNA paternity testing these days, "genius" lol


Oh, I'm sure you're honest in your prejudice against women :)))


I don't know about that, I don't know what every feminist has ever said over the years. I can only speak for myself. I think that majority of jobs can be done by both sexes. There are some professions which men are more likely to do (that require greater physical strength) and professions which would be better if they were done by women for safety reasons (working with young children, since men are far more likely to be pedophiles). And I'm OK with that.


No, if you make a claim and you're writing that your claim is based on data, stats, research, news reports or some official info then it's your job to prove your claim - provide your sources. That's how it works on this forum - no matter if it's a man or a woman making the claim. So, I'm not going to do your job for you. (Geez, another lazy mysoginistic rightist talking out of his ass!)

Nope. As I wrote - plain misogyny.


No, sorry, but what you're writing makes no sense. Both sexes can file for divorce, so there is gender equality in this respect. Men can file for divorce too if they wish, so there's no discrimination here. The fact that they don't want to file for divorce as often as women is their choice.


That's true, but thanks to advancement in medicine women can have kids at later age these days.


The problem is that women often bring to the marital table more than men. I'm guessing that this is one of the reasons (maybe even the main one) why women file for divorce more often than men.

In theory. In practice that's how they both were brought up and they seem to be stuck in their ways.


That's not how it is with my mother. She's tired and she wishes my father would do more, but she's not assertive enough to demand that from him. She only tells him something when she's really so tired that she breaks down. And this is something I don't understand - how my father has no human decency to do some stuff by himself or help her out with something. How he can be so shamelessly lazy, especially that he knows how tired she is and with her back problems...


I know that there are women who are like that - when husbands actually do something at home they criticise him or laugh at him for doing it wrong. They are their own enemies. In part women are to blame for this situation - mothers raise their sons to be such niedorajdy życiowe who can't do anything at home. But that's because such are the societal expectations/norms in which those mothers were raised.

Why don't you butt off from your mother's relationship? Are you stupid? Why don't you help her yourself? Sort yourself out first. geez!

I'm not "butting in" her relationship, I'm just describing it o_O And it's my mother who's been complaining about her husband to me, so she's been burdening me with her marital issues.


It looks like you are.


I was helping my parents when I was living with them. I have my own life now, my own duties and chores. It's not my job to do daily chores for my parents o_O They're capable of doing that themselves. My father sits at home all day watching TV or he's surfing the internet on his phone, so he has all the time in the world to help my mother. He should be sharing house duties with his own freaking wife and since he has both hands - he can peel his own freaking apple. Get it?


The pot calling the kettle black lol

Quite possibbly she doesn't live with them anymore even. And she is not responsible for that.

She is a woman, so that is natural that she whines. Other than that your father must have done something wrong seeing as you are his daughter.

I must say that if PF was representative of the whole population the birthrate would probably on something like 0.01.