Poland's birthrate on the decline

Spot on, PolAm. We created a civilisation in which success is measured with money and material possessions, and the entire media industry, brainwashing billions of people everyday, is built around this myth. Mindless consumers, binge watching TV series and playing video games are no longer teenagers - they are 30-40-year-olds. Childless parasites who claim that they can't afford children but have just taken out another loan to buy a new car (because the previous one was already 5 years old) are all around us. That's why the future of the world is African/Muslim - those who have children will inherit the Earth, according to God's promise and command to be frutiful and multiply, whilst retards who chase new cars and exotic holidays to put photos of them of Instagram/FB will be forgotten a month after they die (and rightly so!).

The dynamic is one thing. More significant is reliable contraception.


It does all the time. But it can't be 'I want my children to have a stay at home parents but I don't want it to be me'.


Sorry but who the hell gives a damn about that?

Tbh I never met a modern women that qould 'miss her window. I know some that can't have kids, some that don't want to but never one that woke up too late. Might be demographics tough.

Nothing stops the concerned daddies from quitting their jobs and taking care of their kids. If enough men did that and became stay-at-home dads, women's wages would rise and one income would be enough to support a family, right? :D


Of course, ffs.


This may be an issue for some, I guess - I'm not sure how many women realise how important the biological clock is for women as far as getting pregnant and safe pregnancy is considered. There probably should be more education about this. 🤔

To be honest, from my observation nothing changed that much in this respect in the last 30 years in Poland. My mother did stay home with me and my brother for a few years, but then she went back to work and we were left home alone - my mother asked our neighbour to check on us (I don't remember if he actually ever did that). The only couple in our block of flats where I grew up with a home-stay-mom were our neighbours next door - they had 6 kids with the seventh dying mysterious death when it was an infant (I think my mother suspected that she killed that baby). That mother of six would sit all day by the window and stare at people and then gossip about them with another neighbour. I remember how she was yelling at her kids. Their sons would steal apples from an orchard nearby and come to us to ask for money for cigarettes for their father... As you can imagine I didn't view them as a model family... 🙄

For me it was completely normal that women work. Even kind of expected...

I think that is the different outlook by people from UK, USA etc and Poland. Most mothers worked in my class.

@Paulina
What you described is what I would call an optimal family situation. Raise the kids then go back to work when they are in school. Optimal for the children for sure, optimal for the father because his role doesn't have to change to one that's not natural for him, and in the long rum optimal for mom because she gets to enjoy raising a family and gets to go back to work. Not perfect, but its pretty damn good. I am happy for you that you had this experience.

@Lenka
"who the hell gives a damn about that?"

A lot of people do now. People are realizing that the chase of career's and material things, while sacrificing a family or witnessing their children grow up is not worth it. Everyone thinks about their legacy and mortality as they get older, anyone who doesn't is simply not normal.

While in Poland I give you that stay at home fathers are rare, but not as rare as you think. In todays remote work climate it is becoming more and more common. It is very common in the US. I stayed at home 5 days a week when my first was born, worked remotely, and then went into the office on weekends. Was not a problem and I am glad I did it. That was nearly 30 years ago.

The phrase "modern women" is a leftist and feminist label. I try not to label women or men in general unless its politically. But the concept of a modern woman was largely created in the US and has been exported around the world. In case the rest of the world has not been watching, the modern woman concept is failing in the US. When the majority of marriages fail, close to 60% now, it is largely due to nontraditional roles being forced on both men and women. Not everything is black and white. Children need to be educated in a way that teaches them not about "modern" concepts of roles, but of traditional ones as well. Just because things have changed for women in many ways does not mean that all changes have been great or that all changes have moved society forward.

In the PRL an overwhelming majority of women had jobs and the idea of a stay at home housewife was kind of exotic, weird US conservative ideas about the evils of women in the workplace were completely irrelevant - the US and Poland are very different societies and problems and solutions from one just tend to not compute in the other....

Kids go to school at 7. If you have 2, let's say 3 years apart, that is 10 years out of job market...


Sorry, but that is NOT staying at home. You still worked. Arranged it a bit to better suit your life (and that is great if you can do it) ut you still worked.


I was only talking about that visiting the grave. I will be dead, who the hell cares...
And I also don't like looking at having kids as some legacy, help in the old age etc. One shouldn't bring kids to this world to feed your ego or as insurance policy.

Agreed. That's one reason for the high birthrate in the third world; less-developed countries don't have any sort of socialised healthcare or welfare state like the more developed countries in Europe and therefore having an overlarge family is seen as a necessary alternative to a state pension and a health service.

And this of course is just building up problems for the future.

@Lenka
Anyone can do what I did, women included. In the US children are in school by 5 yrs old. In preschool usually around 3 or 4. If you have a degree and are well regarded, spending that time with children is a social benefit for everyone including the parents, but most importantly the children. If you do not see how fvcked up society is from absentee parents, too early to daycare and other problems created by the greed and materialist needs, then you are not looking honestly at things.

How is 5 days a week not staying at home? What kind of math are you using?

You expose your thoughts on old age as being monetary driven. My expression was meant to convey that my children, grandchildren, etc. will have thought enough about the life I gave them and lived with them, that they will visit the grave. That is what close knit families think about. Not once have I mentioned old age or children helping out. North American people don't look at their children in this way, and I have yet to meet Poles who see their parents or children in this manner. If anything I see more Parents in Poland working harder and longer to leave their children more.

No, not anyone. Especiallyin Oland the job market is very rigid.


It'snot. 2 days you still went to work, not to mention you had to also work from home on the week days.

We were talking about women NOT working.


I understand but I found the expression...weird.

@Lenka
I was never talking about women not working. I was talking about women not having to go into the work place. And if taking care of a child is not considered working then that is a bad way of seeing things. I went into my office on weekends because I wanted to, not because I had to. Working from home was largely at night. I wanted the money and the family, so you have to do more. There is a very big difference in how Poles see work and how Americans see work. This is not a criticism of you, but Poles generally do not think out of the box enough to solve these kinds of problems. I do not know how your area is with its rigid work regulations. If I were in that situation I would simply look to change the situation.

Maybe the expression was weird for you. In the US there are expressions simply saying that the mark someone leaves on the world, his family and those who know him can be measured by how many people come to his funeral and visit his grave.

Wait a minute, are you saying that taking care of and raising their own kids isn't "natural" for fathers??


Yes, that's also my observation.

Not Polish fathers as their motto is that children should be seen but not heard.

no.... not close to the reality I've seen....

Did you have a Polish father ?
I did so that makes me an authority on the subject.

No but I've seen enough Polish fathers in action (interacting very closely with their children).... It's too bad if your father was emotionally absent.... makes some sense.

@Paulina
I am saying that being a stay at home father is not something men are trained for or equipped to do in most cases. It does not come naturally and takes them out of their natural roles. Men are simply not as emotionally equipped or nurturing as women are naturally. Anyone saying otherwise is retarded or an extreme feminist.

If you had any idea what he endured during WW2 you would understand why.
I am surprised I turned out as well as I did.
What is your excuse ?


Who ? Paulina an extreme feminist ? Really ?
What makes you think that ?

Then everyone who claims that fathers should be treated equally with mothers at family courts during cases concerning parental rights and should be getting kids after divorce is also either "retarded" or "extreme feminist".

Btw, in my opinion boys could be raised in such a way as to be more empathic, better developed emotionally and more nurturing. It would only benefit their future kids. Fathers are as important as mothers for children's development, maybe even more important for daughters than for sons. Many of the men from my father's generation are too cold, emotionally distant, bottled up, not involved in children's lives, indifferent, lazy with kids. Such parenting (or rather lack of it) hurts kids. It defenitely hurt me, especially as a girl and later as a grown woman. I remember how envious I was when I was watching American movies with fathers being close with their daughters, playing with them, spending time with them, supporting them, caring. That's a big boost to a girl's confidence, etc. I simply felt unloved by my father. Would you like your kids to feel that way?


I could say the same about myself... lol

That is.such a naive post......I am speachless....

@Miloslaw, not native, rather mocking/sarcastic.

This is used as a manipulation tactic because there are still so many women who will bend into a human pretzel to prove she is NOT a man hater.


So you had a toxic and psychopathic childhood too ?
Just mocking and being sarcastic Pailina. hahaha :-/

@johnny reb, sorry, but your comment makes no sense. Grow up and stick to the topic (try not to focus too much on me again lol).

@Paulina
Again, another leftist feminist comment concerning fair treatment by the courts. Women want the children, the house, half the man's savings, half his retirement, and alimony while keeping him from seeing his kids. Makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it?

I said being stay at home fathers is not something they are as well prepared for as women. That is a fact. Not every man can do it. Not every woman is good at it. Want to go to extremes, we can continue to do that.

And the courts grant such nonsense because the judge and politicians that support such bias stupidity want to keep their milk sopping jobs.
This is a prime example of how psychopathic creative women have so many more rights than loving husbands and fathers do.
Should it be of any surprise why men aren't as free with their seed as they once were before these barbaric bias laws ?


Then you shouldn't have responded to my post #290 above to get it going again. lol
Besides I like being nice to you as it upsets Y.K.W. to think he is being left out again to the point he has another meltdown rant.

No, Paulina just showed you that if you truly believe man are not as equipped as women in childcare than such bias would be justified.

@Lenka
Another feminist swipe at what science says is fact. It is a fact that women/girls are raised differently than men/boys. The whole environment in which they are raised, socialized, and schooled is different. Maybe women should stand up to pi$$ now? Men and women are different, and no socially constructed idea is going to change that. XX and XY is all there is and they are different. Women are not as equipped as men for manual labor, that is a fact. Or there are millions of female construction workers hiding on the worksites around the world. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging those differences and then working around them.

So women should in fact get the custody unless something is really off since they are the ones better equipped?

the thing is you can't have it both ways