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Is it illegal in Poland / Schengen zone to transport refugees inside?


greg50
13 Sep 2015 #1
I am a polish citizen , i've seen on tv that lots of refugees are walking for hours on the highway in hungary and austria, i wonder if it is illegal to transport them to their destination, as i would like to help.

I would appreciate not having comments about the righteousness of my actions .
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
13 Sep 2015 #2
Generally, no. It might be wise to not transport them across the internal Schengen borders as you might get stopped and checked thoroughly, but there's no specific law against it.
OP greg50
13 Sep 2015 #3
i've heard that it might be counted as smuggling and might get a sentence of 5 years in prison
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
13 Sep 2015 #4
No, not if they're already within Schengen. If you smuggle them across the external border, it's a different story.
White Europe - | 21
13 Sep 2015 #5
Is this a serious question? You're asking if you can transport illegal aliens. To give you a hint, there was a story recently about a guy who was driving a bus full of them in Poland and was arrested.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
13 Sep 2015 #6
I don't think you understand. Most of them aren't actually illegal because they've got valid papers issued by Greece or Italy.

Do try harder.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
13 Sep 2015 #7
Absolutely! As soon as migrants get papers from any EU country, they are no longer illegal in EU.

(pure common sense ;)).
White Europe - | 21
13 Sep 2015 #8
Most of them aren't actually illegal because they've got valid papers issued by Greece or Italy.

Some may, most probably won't. Is Greg going to check their papers before transporting them? Are you really encouraging him to do something potentially illegal?
InPolska 11 | 1,821
13 Sep 2015 #9
I suppose that bringing into Poland (or elsewhere) some of these migrants withouth the local government's ok may be illegal.

If you want to help refugees, wait until they are in Poland (in a few weeks if not days and I can't wait to see Poles cohabiting with Muslims ;);))...
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
13 Sep 2015 #10
Some may, most probably won't. Is Greg going to check their papers before transporting them? Are you really encouraging him to do something potentially illegal?

It's not illegal to transport people within the country without checking their documents. Again, you're American, you don't know how Europe works. No-one is going to arrest or fine you for transporting someone in-country without checking their documents. In fact, no-one is going to fine you for transporting someone across an internal Schengen border as long as you don't attempt to conceal them.
Polsyr 6 | 769
13 Sep 2015 #11
I asked a lawyer friend for you because this is a significant question.

Their advice is: It is a legally tricky subject, so don't do it. If you insist on doing it then for sure don't go across borders.

If you want to help, better donate to NGO's or go and volunteer at a reception center or even volunteer to transport staff and donations to/from the reception centers if you are particularly keen to help in terms of logistics.
cms 9 | 1,271
13 Sep 2015 #12
In the case of the Hungarian / Austrian border I know that people wanting to help were advised not to take them across the border or even drive them around in Hungary as it was legally very dodgy. Of course the Hungarian police are probably sick of the whole situation and would probably do nothing but in general I think there is enough complexity about this situation that I would avoid adding to that - send them some blankets and some canned peas instead.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
13 Sep 2015 #13
@Polsyr: if Greg wants to help, the best for him is to wait for a few days/weeks till the refugees arrive (meeting tomorrow in Brussels and Merkel is getting frustrated as she cannot handle so many refugees.... ;))
jon357 63 | 15,212
13 Sep 2015 #14
Perhaps buy someone a train or coach ticket - that would be untraceable and some of those people by the side of the road would doubtless be grateful.
Kennyboy 1 | 44
13 Sep 2015 #15
Greg50, I want to go to Portugal for 2 weeks holiday, any chance of a lift.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Sep 2015 #16
lots of refugees

Anyone know what the at-the-border screening process is like? So a swarthy, bedraggled person turns up at Polands's border with no documents. What happens next? Do they have people fluent in Arabic and other likely languages to assist border officials? If the person says he lost his documents or had them stolen, how do they determine whether he's a bona fide refugee or just an economic migrant trying to piggyback his way in?

Do they send him to a refugee centre? If he providces false personal data, how can the Polish immigration officials verify it?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
14 Sep 2015 #17
Interesting question, Polonius.

What happens depends very much on the origin of the person and the circumstances. If someone turns up claiming asylum from the FSU, it's likely that they will have documents, so they will be processed (with the help of a translator, if needs be) and then allowed to continue into Poland while their claim is assessed. It's unlikely that they would be detained - but they may have to proceed to a certain area where they can be helped further.

If someone turns up from the Middle East/Africa without documents, then the story changes. I'm told that there are several detention centres available for use, where they would be kept while their claim is assessed. They wouldn't be allowed to enter Poland freely without documents, nor would they be trusted to turn up once their claim has been assessed. They would certainly get translators to help, and they seemingly do a thorough check into someone's background first. If they can't speak Arabic and don't know much about life in Syria (where they claim to be from, for instance), then it's likely that their claim would be denied. If they came across the Ukrainian border, then there's a deal with Ukraine to take them back. I'm not sure if the same deal applies with Russia and Belarus.

Claiming stolen/lost documents is very common (there are even signs in UK airports warning you not to do it or else) - but I think they essentially ask you plenty of questions until they're satisfied as to your real origin. Every Syrian could name Assad's father, but I doubt anyone else could.

If someone has documents and they're verified as being genuine, then they may be allowed to proceed onwards to somewhere that can receive them. Generally speaking, it's unknown people that are detained at the border, not known people. If you're caught in-country (say you swam across the Bug, or something) - then Westerners would be issued with a "get out in a week or else" agreement, while Africans (for instance) would probably be detained as they're likely to try and stay regardless.

It's not foolproof, but in general, it works.

Personally, I think anyone caught illegally in Poland should be detained, but I'm rather hardline on this.
johnny reb 27 | 4,716
14 Sep 2015 #18
Personally, I think anyone caught illegally in Poland should be detained, but I'm rather hardline on this.

I am not from Poland so I can't say what Poland should do and since you are not Polish delph neither should you.
Without saying, ANY county that catches someone that has illegally entered their country is automatically detained.
I am afraid there will be bloodshed in Hungry about the next time the invaders start yelling "f*ck you" and pushing past the police.

The army is now involved and are not as tolerant as the police.
HC Austria
21 Sep 2015 #19
@Johnny
Basicaly nearly every refugee is illegal if he is not in greec or italy.
With dulin-3 a contract in the eu thr refugee must get registerd and check for his reasons in the first eu country he steps.

Also the transport in the eu is also a illegal act because he hasnt the rigjts of a eu citizen.
A no eu citizen and an eu citizen do have diferent riths in the eu.
Even through shengen the borders of the country are still there regien area and the traspassing of this border with illigal refugees is a crim which has differnt punishments in every country.

Like someone said already we are not america so there are not many laws which every eu country shares
White Europe - | 21
12 Oct 2015 #20
The OP is Lebanese. Now it all makes sense.


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