Poland's going forward while Britain is still trying to wake up

Welcome.


Far from it but nowhere is.


If you have to pay it back it's a loan.

Bold statement - would you care to provide the facts that support that conclusion?

If you convince me I'll move out;)

These gifts were later distributed by the Polish Church. I was a kid then. I still remember a bloc of reddish-orange cheese (never before seen something like that) and a warm hat I get.

It wasn't a matter of survival. We would survive anyway. But most certainly it make our Christmas a little more happy one. It was easier to cope with that damn-cold Polish winter with the hat like that. It also teach us something.

I remember later when we all become richer how we pack a trucks full of food and clothes for the Chechnya and former Yugoslavia.
I never thought that I will able to say thank you to these good people.
Thank you m-g. And pass my words of gratitude to your Mom, please.

The great united kingdom!!!!!

Exports $351.3 billion (2009 est.)
Imports $473.6 billion (2009 est.)
= -$122.3 billion

Revenues $819.9 billion (2009 est.)
Expenses $1.132 trillion (2009 est.)
= -$312.1 billion

Gross external debt $9.088 trillion (30 June 2009)

Second largest debt in the world but they are only the sixth largest economy...

Something to be proud of? NO...

In 80s maybe you werent bitter about Poles but now you obviously are. Its clear that you have some anti-polish predujice by your slightly sting comments. Thank you and your family for supporting us Poles during communist, really appriciate it but still i see a slight negative attidute of you towards Poles. Sorry, I had such impression.


really? Is that true? Congartulations then. Didnt know that.

You are correct in that it not something to be proud of. Our last administration have an awful lot to answer for. It was painful to watch as, for the first time ,our national defecit rose so quickly depsite an increase in fiscal revenue through one after another 'stealth' tax rises.

However, the size of the debt is not the issue as to whether, as you have claimed earlier in quite frankly Daily Mail style lurid headline talk, the UK is about to collapse. It is the structure of that debt that will either enable or disable a recovery to a sustainable long term and also the timetable for repayment. If you were to take the time to analyse the contrasting debt structures of say Greece and the UK then you may come to a different conclusion. Have fun doing the research and please get back to me when you are in a position to have a sensible grown up discussion.

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No problem. Glad that we could help a little. I don't know if she still remembers it as her memory is getting a bit hazy lately, but I will. :)

Besides, I would do it any time again, imo it's a duty of those who are better off to help those that are not so well-off.

>^..^<

M-G (indeed, long distance marriage is killing me)

Must be scotch mist that my uncle is living in - people can buy land and build, ever seen the programme Grand Designs? Its just cheaper in the UK to buy and a lot less hassle, why bark when you have a dog? How many of those who have built houses could have afforded to do so had they not left Poland to earn money in the UK? How many who live in Poland earning Polish wages live in small communist apartments?


Policies are just that...Im sure people will believe it when it happens.


Most people have laminate or oak these days.


No offence, but it didnt have a lot to lose to begin with and Im sure the cushion of cash from the EU and millions leaving to find work elsewhere helped, thus injecting cash in to the economy.

You don't seem to be the grown up in here...


Ah yah like Poland is the only nation to get Eu funds.

You kinda failed on your own post...


That's why the brits got so many debts. Congrats you really proved to be the dumbasses that the banks wanted :)

No I didnt, we are the 3rd largest contributer, even though we are in an economic mess at the moment...We're still giving the same.


Iceland didnt help either. Not all Brits have debt.

Well, if Poland revealed its voodoo economics (thanks plk123) then we'd see a different picture. I live here and I have come to the conclusion that either Poles are lying about what they earn or they are really scrimping and saving. There is no way that the arithmetic adds up in many cases. Life is costly here and salaries are often meagre in comparison. It's getting better, yes, but the disparity is still there.

Or nose plug, whichever you encounter first!

or have debts.

Spot on, zetigrek. Some of the property prices here are staggering relative to earnings. In the words of the Beastie Boys, 'something's gotta give' :) :)

For a Western price, maybe. Even my richest Polish relatives live in a wielka płyta - it's probably worth over a million PLN, but it's still hardly a "house".


In that case, please tell them to stay in Poland and stop telling us that they move to the UK for a better life ;)


What's wrong with wooden windows?? Mine are uPVC but they still work!


I don't have any carpets, I have laminate and rugs - much more fashionable and cleaner, too.


No creaks here! What kind of British property have you visited? A squat??

Considering that most Poles (including all my family) live in medium or high-rise concrete blocks, whereas I and all my British relatives live in properly-built brick or stone houses or flats, your post is hilarious! :D


You tell 'im, our kid! :D

Varsovian needs to see Rubislaw in Aberdeen. Delph is from my city, he will back me up on this. There are super new houses in Zabrze now, head turners for many Poles and me to a certain extent too. Still, they just don't compare with big houses in Scotland which, in turn, don't compare to big houses in America. Look at English country houses too. Poland is still very much catching up. It still has a commie block culture in places.

That depends on taxes, I'd guess. Varsovian, you really need to see how wealthy some Brits are. They live like kings.

There are good and bad windows in both Britain and Poland.

The floorboards do tend to be better here in Poland but, then again, Varsovian cannot be sure as he hasn't been round most of the houses in both countries.

Poland needs to go through a broader attitude change amongst its youth. They are still defeatist and take bailout options all too often. They see Britain as a bailout.

I think its more to do with the fact they are prepared to pay a higher percentage than most other peoples toward a mortgage or rent. I pay 400 a month here for the flat I rent. Nice place, in the mountains ect but its just really a place for me to crash and sleep while I work. In Poland I would pay maybe half my wages to rent and bills. But in the UK it's more like a fifth that I'm prepared to pay out, mainly because I have a lot more options. In Krakow I had to deal with maybe upto 20 students vying with me to get a flat, so I paid higher.

Prepared is the wrong word i think you mean forced. I have close friends and family in Poland and they are just living under sh1t circumstances and see no way out..They are not prepared.

They are not forced, there are plenty of places in Krk you can rent or buy on the cheap.


You don't have many friends who take you seriously.


What, so you take a very small minority and claim they are the majority?

explain

Why? put 2 and 2 together.

Agree totally.


There are plenty of shyty areas in Britain too that people are "forced" to live in because their income dictates they can not aford to live in a better area, its not about "choice" its about "lack of choice" - people over here are forced to pay rediculous prices for houses because the market went stupid, of course they have a choice, buy not not to buy..but if you want to get on the property ladder, you dont have any choice but to pay stupid prices - example: friend purchased house in 1993 for £22K just sold house for £199K, its a 2 bed terrace FFS!

Sorry D I have to disagree with you totally on this...

If we all had the choice, we would all choose to live in castle or estates. From living in Krk I know that I could find modern 2-3 bed place for about 1200pln a month. If you look in the right places you can find decent flats to buy for only 250,000pln. Hardy blooming expensive.

You have to make do with the earnings you get. All these people who seem to think that Krk is a cash cow and everybody lives off 10k a month are deluded. You could live in nice flat, near the centre and still earn 2k a month and to make it more remarkable, you could do that and still save.

Thats an extreme example and not with general trend, maybe your friend bought in a shite area which became upgraded or sought after through outside circumstances. Early 90's saw the first real burst property bubble in the UK as well. Even so those kind of capital gains were not normal.

You say she "just sold" what very recently? she got £200k in the current market? which means she would have got around £240k a couple of years ago.


Would you call £130k for a below average two bed apartment a stupid price?

Getting on the property ladder for most means starting off small, buying in not so good an area then working your way up. Most people dont expect to buy a four bedroom house at £300k right off the bat.

Generally speaking folk start small gather some equity get a few promotions and work there way up the property ladder, which is why its called a ladder.

Its all relative D..If a family of 4 (two adults and 2 children) are bringing in a joint income of 4,000 a month (Lets say 2K is average), to take 1,200 out of that when you have a family is a large chunk, especially today when kids want more and more and let's face it Poland isnt that cheap of a place to live - whilst Ive only been a tourist I stayed in an apartment so did visit the supermarkets and to be quite frank with you I was shocked, beer - dirt cheap - fags - dirt cheap - food - comparable to the UK - clothing - fcuk me, expensive! This myth that Poland is some mega cheap place to live (yes people believe you can buy anything for a 1/10 of the price in the UK) are sadly mistaken.

Like I said I was only a tourist but I can add up and the reality was people are vastly under paid over there and goods are over priced and what I consider an pretty average standard of living here would be considered extravagant over there - disposable income isnt the same. I dont mean this as a slight in any way - quite the oposite, something needs to change.

Then they really shouldn't have 2 kids when they are earning that amount. But thats a different story. I never met a family of 4 in Poland who didn't already have flat ect and earned enough to take care of themselves.


If you spend your money at large supermarket.
Go to the proper markets and buy fresh and you will spend almost nothing, same with clothes ect.
Electrical items are expensive though.

Family life is what it is D, and people "manage" - there are scum in this country with 5 kids and srounging off the system, if a family who are paying there way have 2 kids, I dont see a problem.


Im sure it was a small % you met..I dont know everyone in the UK either and Im British :D


Generally cheaper in the UK, it stands to reason as they buy in bulk.


Didnt shop on the markets, maybe its different in Poland, markets in the UK are comparable to the supermarkets - wouldnt personally subject myself to market clothes, but thats just my preference - you pay for what you get and its a false economy to buy cheap clothes (got a fire trap jumper there that Ive had for 10 years...still like new! - purchased some knickers from primarney that lasted one wash!)

After 5-6 years, not one I can bring to mind. Even when I lived in Huta. How many people in the UK do you know in poor circumstances that own their own house while having 2-3 kids?


Cheaper in the UK??? Where were you going in Poland, the Ritz supermarket.


It is, and very very much cheaper.


We cant all go out and buy prada ;)

People who bought their property 15-20 years ago, for starters.

My (now ex) wife and I bought a 2-bedroom flat in a good part of London in 1994 for... £44 000. :0 At the time, this cost just over three times my salary.

I've just done a search - the same flat would cost just under £250 000 now, or 6.25 times what I would earn in London these days. THIS is why property is no longer affordable, and only the rich and the underclass can afford to have more than a couple of kids!

In the North, it was possible to find plenty of 3-bedroom houses for around £25000 at the time - easily affordable for people even in comparatively low-paid jobs.

And don't forget "right to buy" council tenants, who were able to buy at well below market value ;)

But still it doesn't get away from the fact that there are plenty of places you can buy on a cheaper budget. My place in Ireland was valued (as a wreck) 6 years ago at 220k, now today after I renovated it it worth about the same. But thats just the market. Point I'm making is that you can live quite comfortably in Krk on 2k a month. I've done it in the past and another forum member here is doing it now, with with extra left over money at the end of the month. On 4k a month you could live with 2 kids and also rent quite easily.