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Advice needed on access rights and alimony payments regarding my Polish daughter


AlexL
6 Nov 2013 #1
All, i need your advice...

I was 2 years in a relationship with a polish girl in Poland. Everything was fine, she got pregnant, ee were happy, child has my name, everything was ok . However, I moved to live and work in Switzerland before making her pregnant. She refuses to come here. She wanted me to leave everything behind and move back to poland. However one person salary wouldn't be enough to support 3. Especially knowing that my daughter's mother came from a "gold nest" and she is used to have everything.

She now accuses my that i left her alone and that she has to take care of everything alone. Even if i go there often, i send her money and even if i always wanted and invited her to move to me (that was the initial plan that she agreed)

Because of this, she is now not allowing me to see my daughter. She wants me to send every month 2000zl, plus she demanded a nanny and other costs to be paid. When is say no, she claims" i dont love my daughter, otherwise i would send more money." Now that im gathering money to come back to Poland, she says i should stay here because in Poland i wouldnt afford to pay for all costs..

Plus, when i go to Poland, i cant enter the place my daughter lives (her parents house) and if i want to see my daughter, i have to book hotel, and pay for her taxi. Otherwise, she wont come to meet me.

During all these fights she confessed that she slept with other guy and she wrote several times that the only thing she wants from me now is money.

I'm the father, i love my daughter and im shocked about all this. I paid for everything, i try to go to Poland once a month but everyday she uses our daughter to emotionally black mail me. Like sending me photos of her crying when i say that i can't send more money.

What are my rights? Can i spend time alone with my daughter? Can her parents forbid me to enter their house, even if my daughter is living there? Sleeping in a furniture that i bought? Can she refuse me to take my daughter to see my parents in Portugal? Can she actually demand all this money from me knowing that we are single?

Should i go to court?

Help me guys...
legate - | 46
6 Nov 2013 #2
hello,
the best thing to do is to go to court to establish your contacts with your child.

You have full rights now but without a court ruling it will be hard to execute them. When the court decides that you can e.g. see your child twice a month for a weekend and take her to Portugal or Switzerland for a holiday, it will be much easier to execute your rights.
chrison2wheels 2 | 15
6 Nov 2013 #3
Get a lawyer. I hate lawyers but sometime you need one. You have the visiting rights but it all has to be done through courts. I don't think you will be able to take your daughter to Portugal but you could bring your parents to Poland to see their granddaughter. Remember that once you get legal stuff going, you might end up paying even more. And whatever you are paying now, make sure it's well documented so she doesn't hit you for back child support.

Typical Polish woman, just wants money and will mess with your head to get it.
Harry
6 Nov 2013 #4
she confessed that she slept with other guy

So your first step is getting a paternity test done.
Your second step is getting a lawyer. It'll cost you now but save you money, time and heart-ache in the long run.
OP AlexL
6 Nov 2013 #5
The baby is mine, we were happy and has our combine surname. The "cheating" happened when she decided to break up with me.

How much money would I be obliged to pay if it is decided that i pay for alimony? Percentage of my salary or a fixed amount?

And (quite interested on this one) how would the court react knowing that its her who doesn't want to come to me, live with me, spend holidays with me, who doesn't want to cooperate and the fact that I have written proves where she says she only wants my money and where also it's clearly visible the emotional blackmail using my daughter?
Polson 5 | 1,771
6 Nov 2013 #6
Before you take a lawyer and go to court, maybe you could tell her about it (court, lawyers), maybe it will freak her out and she'll realise she should stop being stupid (who knows, really?).
OP AlexL
6 Nov 2013 #7
Thanks Polson. She is a 22 years old spoiled girl. Her parents already show that they want to make me suffer (by using my daughter as blackmail), so i dont think going to court can scare them. they have the financial conditions and the time.

I dont want her to demand from me always more money, "or if not, i wont see my daughter". This needs to be stopped. Is the court the only solution? I mean, her childish behavior would be considered in court? I work in switzerland , and, If the court decides to take a percentage of my salary, it will be a huge amount for polish reality. And at the end, she wont even need to work anymore... maybe this is what she wants, but how will the court consider this...?
lo&behold
6 Nov 2013 #8
Did you pay on regular basis like every month and how much? Was it 500 a month or less?
I don't see that she is to blame for refusing to move to the foreign county, specially when pregnant and you are not-married. I would say that have been sensible.
local_fela 17 | 172
6 Nov 2013 #9
She is just using you mate! as for Blackmailing you, i think its a criminal offence! there are lots of cases here you here, be it with foreigners or Polish males. Many girls who are good for nothing are getting more sophisticated idea to sit and eat someones money! be careful, as other members said above, go to court! no need to threaten her about 'going to court' otherwise, one day she might make the first step herself and by law she 'can' claim all the years and months you have not been sending money (even though u had- as i said earlier they are becoming more sophisticated!) react now! your daughter and its your right to see her! by the way, just to be on the safe side.. please mate a gentle request- do a DNA test!

and by the way, even think that you can win the case and keep your daughter with you! same rights applies and gender equality could make you the guardian of the baby and turn the table around, should you want to or have enough to spend to fight a tough case!
lo&behold
6 Nov 2013 #10
She is just using you mate!

If he is the father of this child and there are not reason to think otherwise he should pay regardless.
local_fela 17 | 172
6 Nov 2013 #11
Yeah, but thats not my point here! please read again
Wulkan - | 3,251
6 Nov 2013 #12
even think that you can win the case and keep your daughter with you!

I clearly don't realise how it all works
local_fela 17 | 172
6 Nov 2013 #13
well, its tricky and costly and time consuming! I dont think that he will be the first dad in EU how will win a case to become the guardian of the child.

I hope that this article applies withing EU:
divorcesupport.about.com/od/yourlegalrights/a/A-Father-S-Legal-Rights-To-Child-Custody-Before-And-During-Divorce.htm
jon357 63 | 14,137
6 Nov 2013 #14
I mean, her childish behavior would be considered in court?

I doubt it. They will consider the welfare of your child above everything.

Your second step is getting a lawyer. It'll cost you now but save you money, time and heart-ache in the long run.

lawyers

lawyer

Get one and get one fast. Get the best you can afford.
TaiCat 1 | 30
6 Nov 2013 #15
Hate girls like these, they start spitting venom and using own children against their fathers. If it doesn't works now, time will show her. Anyway, she's 22, probably still immature and attached to her family who take her side and are happy to let her milk out the 'bad daddy' while she's meeting another guy.

Did you try to speak to her mind? meet her eye to eye and ask how she imagine the future of your child, show her the concern, you should know where supposedly your money will go to. Maybe you could open her a college fund instead? Actually I don't know how does that works but I too am against paying her money off your Swiss salary, else she will turn into a scrounger always shouting the same mantra 'money or child!' (and, on the side, whispering to her daughter 'Your father is a f*ck up don't deal with him). You should do something about it.

It doesn't happens only with Polish girls tho, Japan is even worse, where law is always on japanese parent's side. Many japanese women banned their partners from seeing the child and called police on these fathers who tried to contact their kids...
OP AlexL
6 Nov 2013 #16
wow thank you to all! Very helpful!

Did you pay on regular basis like every month and how much? Was it 500 a month or less?

I send her in average 1500PLN. Plus everytime i go there i buy her clothes, medicines, and other extras. Besides the troller, car seat and all the furniture that is in a room of a house that i'm not allowed to enter!

She is just using you mate!

I Know that, and i have an sms in my phone where she clearily says she only wants money from me. Question is, what can the court do about it?

and by the way, even think that you can win the case

For sure not. A foreigner living outside Poland against a polish mother and daughter living in Poland? Never.

Did you try to speak to her mind?

Everytime i try that but her hate is so big that she refuses everything and she actually thinks that she is behaving correctly.

shouting the same mantra 'money or child!' (and, on the side, whispering to her daughter 'Your father is a f*ck up don't deal with him)

That is my concern...

Maybe you could open her a college fund instead?

I think this would be great idea. I want my daughter to have access to everything. But for sure she is using some of this money for her own benefict. How do I know if the money i send is being used only for my daughter? I can't track that. And she refused to show me any bills or invoices. Any info on this?

I don't see that she is to blame for refusing to move to the foreign county, specially when pregnant and you are not-married. I would say that have been sensible

What seems better? Stay in Switzerland, earn 25k PLN, be sure that the 3 of us have financial stability (besides the other great things that Switzerland can offer). Or coming back to Poland, only with my salary earning 5 times less and try to mantain 3 people just because she wants to live with her mother and stay next to her friends?

More important than everything is my daughter. She is fine now. But i wont see her first steps like i didnt see her first teeth growing, etc etc.

I'm afraid that polish law goes against foreigners "blindly". At the end i could lose contact with her, lose money and my daughter will grow with her mother telling tham Im the "bad guy"
legate - | 46
6 Nov 2013 #17
I'm afraid that polish law goes against foreigners "blindly"

that's not true.

At the end i could lose contact with her, lose money and my daughter will grow with her mother telling tham Im the "bad guy"

the more you'll wait with sorting this out, the more you and your daughter grow apart and if you'll eventually decide to fight for contacts, the court will see you almost as a stranger for a child. It's crucial that you get the contacts asap; it's very likely that the expert witnesses (psychologists) will by summoned by court to decide if you and your daughter are close enough so she's ready to be spending some time with you without her mother;

the mother of your daughter can sue you for alimony no matter what you do with your parental contact rights
local_fela 17 | 172
8 Nov 2013 #18
For sure not. A foreigner living outside Poland against a polish mother and daughter living in Poland? Never.

Look mate, if you have money and time to spend, you can win the case, might be you will have to stretch it to European court, I am not a lawyer, but I do understand the treatment of 'equality'! given that you can prove that she is not going to be a good mum!
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
9 Nov 2013 #19
As a mother and a woman I'm going to give you this advice.

Stop the money until you have proper access
Start court proceedings
Document \ email everything so you can show you child what a awkward ***** his/her mother was

Women hold all the cards and it's so unfair if a woman wants payback or just wants to be horrid.

I feel for you - I couldn't imagine not seeing my baby
Harry
9 Nov 2013 #20
^ Well said that woman (and mother)!
Wulkan - | 3,251
9 Nov 2013 #21
Everytime i try that but her hate is so big that she refuses everything

That hate couldn't grow from nothing.
legate - | 46
9 Nov 2013 #22
Stop the money until you have proper access

don't do it, because she'll use it in court
Harry
9 Nov 2013 #23
^
What he said. Asst least in part because she *might* use the money for things which befit your kid.
cms 9 | 1,272
9 Nov 2013 #24
I think you are getting too much sympathy. You walked out on your family. 10 percent of your income is reasonable - when my kids were small i spent a lot more than that. You have not been there to wipe its butt and get up in the night or stand in queues at the doctor. Living in switzerland without her mum to help her might not be as appealing as you think ? Would she be entitled to healthcare in switzerland for example.

If you are not going to participate then accept the alimony and try and get some access rights. But no court in any country will force her parents to let you into their home, so make a plan B.

And yeah she slept with someone, but she was lonely, stressed and hormonal.
Guest
23 Jul 2017 #25
I suggest you read this.
amazon.co.uk/Idiots-Liars-Psychos-Me-Bizarre/dp/1520689349


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