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A study on how bilingual Polish-English speakers think


Novichok 3 | 6,771
11 Jun 2022 #61
I think he was northern....

The r-less "park" is a variant known as pompous-ass English - typically heard at award ceremonies.

That's not to say different accents don't exist or that they're not noticed

What's up with those double negatives? Trying to outlyzko Lyzko?
jon357 71 | 19,994
11 Jun 2022 #62
if you live on the Rochdale side

Yes. It's perhaps due to inward migration from Ireland over the years or centuries. Burnley is certainly the most Roman Catholic town in England by percentage population and there was always a lot of migration to north Manchester.
mafketis 35 | 11,201
11 Jun 2022 #63
What's up with those double negatives?

Not negative concord since they're all in different clauses, mr grammatico.
Novichok 3 | 6,771
11 Jun 2022 #64
Fu*ck clauses, Mr Lyzko 2.0. When I see two nots and a don't in one sentence, I ask if the same can be said using affirmative and fewer words.

Instead of this convoluted: That's not to say different accents don't exist or that they're not noticed.
How about Different accents often go unnoticed... Or: Different accents are hard to notice...

And this, my children, shows the fundamental difference between figure and speed skating.
AntV 5 | 632
11 Jun 2022 #65
You may be a crusty buzzard, but you make a good point.
Novichok 3 | 6,771
11 Jun 2022 #66
Well, thank you AntV. With this, I will now rest my case, whatever it is.
OK, I recall what it is. Simplicity is the greatest virtue of them all. In fact, all things we cherish are expressed simply. Like: I love you. And: I do.

Do it in three paragraphs and she will find another guy.
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
11 Jun 2022 #67
Paucity of language can often, but not always, lead to deeper understanding, Rich et al.
Not everything in English can be expressed in a sound bite!
Novichok 3 | 6,771
11 Jun 2022 #68
Only you need a deeper understanding of I love you and I do. Or: I passed. I am cancer-free. We got it! It's a girl! She died. I am 80.

You are a moron. That was just an example...Nothing personal.
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
11 Jun 2022 #69
??? Sense please, Rich? What are ya smokin', dude?
AntV 5 | 632
11 Jun 2022 #70
Simplicity...all things we cherish are expressed simply.

This is why poetry is an effective literary medium. Probably also why poetry is most readily identified as beautiful amongst all mother literary forms.

I am 80.

I can only imagine how much of a pain in the ass you were when you were in your 40's. :D

Anyhow, I'm...once a-freaking-gain..trying to crack the nut that is the Polish language. Can any of you truly bilingual speakers give any hints or tips to learning this god-forsaken beautiful sounding language?

After using atleast 6 different texts (over the past 20 years) this Sadowska text seems to be the best, so I'm using that. But, any tips how to approach learning Polish from English.. My wife is no help--she has no interest in teaching language and when I try to humor her with some Polish she usually ends up calling me an ass :D.
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
11 Jun 2022 #71
Translating English into Polish, whatever literary form, I've found far more challenging than the reverse.

Polish can be shortened in English, whereas the same cannot be said for the other direction.

In my bilingual edition of "Pan Tadeusz", the translation is far fewer pages than the original.

Furthermore, quantifying verbal aspects can be easily eliminated in English with far less contextual explanation required. Often, there's so much subtext or unmentioned,
hidden between the lines stuff, it would take almost entirely re-writing the English in order to accurately render the Polish.

Examples too numerous to list here.
AntV 5 | 632
11 Jun 2022 #72
I'm thinking of just hiring GK as a tutor. What's your fee, GK?
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
11 Jun 2022 #73
But AntV, you already speak English, I don't get it!
AntV 5 | 632
11 Jun 2022 #74
Polish, I want to learn Polish. I've been going over to that country for 20 years, and I can barely order a cup of coffee, let alone carry on an intelligent and coherent conversation with my in-laws.
jon357 71 | 19,994
11 Jun 2022 #75
Can any of you truly bilingual speakers give any hints or tips

- Aim to make a hundred mistakes a day.

- Put yourself in situations where you have to use it.

- Learn nouns and high frequency verbs first.

- Don't let Poles constantly correct you.

- Duolingo for all its faults can help. Though don't rely on it solely.
pawian 197 | 19,901
11 Jun 2022 #76
going over to that country for 20 years, and I can barely order a cup of coffee

That means you are not cut out for learning such difficult languages. Better give up this crazy idea and you will avoid a lot of stress. You have survived with your English for 20 years and you will the next 20.
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
11 Jun 2022 #77
Cool! I'm also readily available to help out, if more or less for the basics:-) Good move,
POWODZENIA CHLOPCU!
GefreiterKania 15 | 699
11 Jun 2022 #78
What's your fee, GK?

For you, Anti, it's always free. :) Whenever you have any doubts or need advice on your polszczyzna, all you have to do is write me a PM.

As for various methods of learning languages, I've always found parallel reading to be very helpful. Read a chapter (or even a page) in English and then in Polish. In the long run it will give you a good passive knowledge of the language. Active knowledge is more tricky: speaking is best practiced in Poland with native speakers, but you visit quite often so that won't be a problem*, and writing is best practiced on internet fora... https://polishforums.com/po-polsku/ :)

* - assuming that your wife really refuses to speak Polish with you (persuading her to do it would be the best option :))
AntV 5 | 632
11 Jun 2022 #79
Jon, GK, Lyzko. Thanks.

Jon your tips are duly noted and sound. Very reasonable. I appreciate it.

GK, the parallel reading thing is a damn good idea. Much appreciate it. Look for your inbox to be full. :)

Pawian, I've got a pair of balls...I don't quit. But, I appreciate your concern for my stress levels. :)
pawian 197 | 19,901
11 Jun 2022 #80
I've got a pair of balls...I don't quit

It is obvious you don`t know what you are talking about. A pair of balls? Forget it. The Polish language requires you to have the balls of steel! And a penis of uranium.

I appreciate your concern for my stress levels

I just don`t want you to get disappointed and disillusioned like Novi who constantly moans about the difficulty of Polish. We don`t need another moaner here.

uranium.

I meant titanium, of course. Ant, are you sure you are ready to face that challenge with the Polish language?????
Novichok 3 | 6,771
11 Jun 2022 #81
I can barely order a cup of coffee, let alone carry on an intelligent and coherent conversation with my in-laws.

Just speak English. It worked for me. I just avoided over30s.
There is no way to have an intelligent and coherent conversation with Poles - and especially with in-laws. Before you blink, it will be a US vs EU fight.

Just smile and you will be the best son-in-law ever.
pawian 197 | 19,901
11 Jun 2022 #82
Before you blink, it will be a US vs EU fight.

No, Polish in-laws aren`t interested in the USA. Stop inventing tales. :)
Novichok 3 | 6,771
12 Jun 2022 #83
Once you know English, any other language is just a distraction. It's like owning two motorcycles or two sets of dentures.
AntV 5 | 632
12 Jun 2022 #84
Before you blink, it will be a US vs EU fight.

Hahaha! That would be funny. Nah, I hit the lottery marrying who I married...in-laws are good people.

I avoid the under 30s when over there anymore. Bunch of brats. Now, the over 30s are as solid a people as there are, IMO. They remind me of my grandparents' generation and my parents' generation (the ones who weren't braiding flowers in their hair).
Lyzko 37 | 8,549
13 Jun 2022 #85
Don't you fall for that bull, AntV!
Rich's just sour on Polish for his own reasons.
It can only help by speaking the language of the country in which you're either visiting, working or living....NO EXCEPTIONS.
jon357 71 | 19,994
13 Jun 2022 #86
braiding flowers in their hai

The good ones?


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