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Poles - don't fall into the French/Spanish trap re pronunciation/accent!


nikt
23 Nov 2010 #31
(Here we go again with Polish/English phonetics, but) it should be, as far as I know, pyench but a Pole told me that some Poles, trying to appear sophisticated may overpronounce as pyounch.

I pronounce it piĘć and I don'r feel that's sophisticated way of pronouncing it... just proper. The pieńć is just a sloppy way of pronouncing it.

The same thing goes with other numbers:

sześćset (600) many Poles pronounce like: sześ-set or even szejset (in english it would sound like sheay-set). It is just sloppiness

The same thing with sześćdziesiąt (60). Szejdziesiąt - many kids say (and even write!) like this
OP Teffle 22 | 1,319
23 Nov 2010 #32
I pronounce it piĘć and I don'r feel that's sophisticated way of pronouncing it... just proper. The pieńć is just a sloppy way of pronouncing it

Hmmm. Interesting!

Based on what my friend said, I wonder how many poles don't pronounce it properly then?

Surprised, as she is educated, intelligent.
nikt
23 Nov 2010 #33
more about Ę - the whole thing is about saying it without exaggerting this sound. So it should be really slightly nasal because if you pronounce it like in French it will sound unnatural, ridiculuos and funny.

The same problem is with Ę at the ends of words. Some can say DziękujĘ without exaggerating this sound but most say just simple E at the end.
OP Teffle 22 | 1,319
23 Nov 2010 #34
DziękujĘ

I say the last syllable of this as pretty much like "yeah"

Is this silly?

Basically, my version sounds like (again, phonetics po angielsku) JENK OO YEAH
nikt
23 Nov 2010 #35
Based on what my friend said, I wonder how many poles don't pronounce it properly then?

MOST :)
It doesn't mean that someone is uneducated. Its more like the language starts to degradate on mass scale.
I even often think about what is the correct way of pronouncing e in the ends. Ordinary people say e but I've noriced that sctors and radio speakers say the slight ę

Even Ivona says dziękujE and pieńć;)

www . ivona . com / index . php#

Basically, my version sounds like (again, phonetics po angielsku) JENK OO YEAH

haha. No it's not yeah. I've already noticed that Brits say dziękujaaa. It's really ɛ and yours sounds more like æ I guess
Ziemowit 14 | 4,263
23 Nov 2010 #36
sześćset (600) many Poles pronounce like: sześ-set or even szejset (in english it would sound like sheay-set). It is just sloppiness

No, it is not. Pronouncing it sześć-set would sound artificial and over-correct in normal speech. But it would be OK if you delivered a rather formal or ceremonious speech. The same story goes, for example, with "jabłko" which you will usually pronounce "japko" rather than the way it is actually written.
OP Teffle 22 | 1,319
23 Nov 2010 #37
OK, so the JENKOO is alright? So maybe yeh (short) as opposed to yeah for the ending ? !

And I think typically the OO should be stressed rather then the end (which I have developed a habit of doing) ?

dziękujaaa

I'm not that bad.

That soundsmental: )
nikt
23 Nov 2010 #38
No, it is not. Pronouncing it sześć-set

ok between sześćset and sześ-set there is little almost unhearable difference. But szejset it's obvious sloppiness.

About ę

Literę ę na końcu wyrazu przed pauzą wymawia się zazwyczaj bez rezonansu nosowego, a więc tak jak ustną samogłoskę e. W starannej wymowie można lekko zaznaczyć nosowość, ale przesada w tej mierze jest gorsza od niedbałości, zwłaszcza gdy kilka kolejnych wyrazów kończy się literą ę.
- Mirosław Bańko

source:
poradnia . pwn . pl / lista.php?kat=2&szukaj=samog%B3osk%EA

It's explained better and by specialist (please someone tranclate it). I think that the same rule is with pięć and pieńć.

OK, so the JENKOO is alright? So maybe yeh (short) as opposed to yeah for the ending ? !

I believe it's alright. The ending is like in the word "bed". Just simple E sound :)
Polonius3 993 | 12,357
29 Nov 2010 #39
Spiking off akSONTS zis reminds me off en anecDOT. A British couple were on the Eiffel Tower sightseeing when they saw a Frenchman attempting to jump off. They restrained him and asked why he wanted to do away with himself. His reply: 'You see zis taWER? I bilt zis taWER. But do zey col me "Pierre ze taWER bilder?" - NON! You see zat breezh (should be pronounced with a uvular r)? I bilt zat breezh. But do zey col me "Pierre ze breezh bilder?" - NON! But f--- just one peeg...!
citizen67 6 | 189
4 Feb 2013 #40
At least we try to learn foreign languages, unlike some of you English people who think you don't need to ;)

What language would you like us to learn? There is a massiv problem for English speakers, anybody learning English is making a wise investment it is a language they will use a lot if they go abroad, it is the World's lingu franca it is worth learning, but what do language do English speakers learn? Welsh? Gaelic? Danish? Finish? Estonian? Hungarian? no offence to these lovely people, but the rewards of learning their language are minimal! if I learn to speak Swedish, I can speak to 8 million Swedes, if a Swede learns English, he can speak to the World !!! and that's the same for a Polish.
bullfrog 6 | 602
4 Feb 2013 #41
but what do language do English speakers learn?

Russian or Mandarin, just in case? As per the old joke: what will the price of a pint of milk be in London in 2020? Answer: 5 yuans...
AmerTchr 4 | 201
4 Feb 2013 #42
What language would you like us to learn?

Always a bone of contention with locals no matter where you are. The rational ones will see the logic of the numbers though.

My method is to develop the "survival" level of the local language: numbers (Money issues and addresses), things at the grocery stores, introductions, greetings, farewells, acknowledgments and food items (for menus and entertainment). Concurrent with that I'm trying to get the pronunciations and any alphabet differences (for reading maps and signage).

I would prefer to develop my Russian past survival stage in order to hit a much wider group of people but lately am thinking about trying to reacquire Spanish if I can find someone for language swaps in either one of those, maybe on weekends.
citizen67 6 | 189
4 Feb 2013 #43
Russian or Mandarin, just in case? As per the old joke: what will the price of a pint of milk be in London in 2020? Answer: 5 yuans...

Mandarin is not an international language, although it is a better bet than most other languages, there are a lot of them and the women are good looking. Russian, no chance! sounds like they are talking whilst slurping cabbage soup, it's not that international either.
bullfrog 6 | 602
4 Feb 2013 #44
sounds like they are talking whilst slurping cabbage soup

I find the sound of Russian quite appealing, at least much better than English spoken by our transatlantic cousins!
citizen67 6 | 189
4 Feb 2013 #45
It doesn't to me, but each to their own, to me French sounds beautiful, but some people on here hate it?
AmerTchr 4 | 201
4 Feb 2013 #46
Mandarin is not an international language, although it is a better bet than most other languages, there are a lot of them and the women are good looking. Russian, no chance! sounds like they are talking whilst slurping cabbage soup, it's not that international either.

Wow, I love Russian, seems full of life. At least though I didn't get stuck talking like some Brit with my poor pronunciation and inability to keep the language cleaned up.
citizen67 6 | 189
4 Feb 2013 #47
Wow, I love Russian, seems full of life

really? it is funny how people percieve langauages. The worst sounding language I've come across was Hebrew when I lived on a Kibbutz, it sounded like they were clearing their throats all the time.

At least though I didn't get stuck talking like some Brit with my poor pronunciation and inability to keep the language cleaned up.

I hav no idea what this is meant to be saying? is it humour or something? it is difficult to tell.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
4 Feb 2013 #48
For an island, they developed a ton of dialects and accents. I remember the first time I met one of the guys who spoke like the actor in this clip. He had been fired in his first week of working for a language school and a Brit asked me if I would meet with him and try to help him out (I was recruiting some teachers at the time). I couldn't even make out his name after three tries. I apologized and said there had been a mistake because I thought he was English. It was funny because, so help me he looked like someone out of an Agatha Christie novel with tweeds, umbrella and a bowler hat. He sat through a Sunday brunch of other English teachers and students but was only able to talk with two of the Brit teachers. I heard later that he went back to the UK to regroup and try to figure out what to do next.

youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw
bullfrog 6 | 602
4 Feb 2013 #49
it sounded like they were clearing their throats all the time.

Sounds exactly like Schwytzerdütsch (swiss german)!!
Rysavy 10 | 307
4 Feb 2013 #50
I have had good experiences with my new poor Polish. I have elicited nothing but gentle humor. And correction if I really muffed the word.

French Cities have been the only foreign (to me ) language that has had rude condescension and comments to that effect. And permanently turned me off anything to do with said country.

To be fair, the French that were out in the country on way to Germany were a lot more laid back. The food improved the farther from city we were as well. This is my opinon from first time as 6 yr old and second time on a field trip in my Sophomore year. All the french I can remember without nearly crashing to my mental desktop; is Shut the Door! and Let's go to the beach. I can still read it passable.

I don't remember any problems in Castile region or going up into Portugal basque country (but I was fluent enough then, english was not my first language). Perhaps they were nicer to kids. Maybe they got more snooty now? My family is more likely to correct slangy mexicans than anglos speaking spanish.

While staying with Weiss and Bagnesk/Bagenski cousins in Nurnburg Germany and around Stribro it was snow outside, sleigh rides AND all FOOD FOOD FOOD..with kinderbeir, cocoa and warm mulled wine and MORE FOOD! hard to bring away a bad vibe from that. I didn't want to leave! Ever!

now THAT is an international ice breaker!
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
4 Feb 2013 #51
Sat outside a hotel in Krak' smoking a fag I overheard two groups of teenagers talking to each other, a group of local Poles and a group of Scandinavians,guess what,they were communicating in English,so,yeah, I can see the argument for English speakers just not bothering. Especially as I can concur with the OP, Poles really do get arsey about EXACT pronunciation and just will never accept that their English makes them sound like Count Von Count from seasame street :)
Warszawette - | 128
4 Feb 2013 #52
FYI, the Basque region is in Spain and in France not in Portugal
AmerTchr 4 | 201
4 Feb 2013 #53
Not everyone seems to agree with you....

The homeland of the Basque people is Western Europe in the areas of southwestern France, western Spain and Portugal, where they have lived since ancient times.
Barney 15 | 1,591
4 Feb 2013 #54
FYI, the Basque region is in Spain and in France not in Portugal

That is where the Basque country lies it most definitely is not in Portugal.
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
4 Feb 2013 #55
Hmmmm.
The Basque Region IS Northern Spain and Southern France. Maybe people with a connection to the Basques do live in parts of Portugal but it is not the Basque Region any more than Cornwall is a Basque region despite the DNA links.
citizen67 6 | 189
4 Feb 2013 #56
Sat outside a hotel in Krak' smoking a fag I overheard two groups of teenagers talking to each other, a group of local Poles and a group of Scandinavians,guess what,they were communicating in English,so,yeah, I can see the argument for English speakers just not bothering.

It is NOT a case of just not bothering, it is; WHICH ONE?

You Poles say you hav 7 neighbours, for us it is like having to learn the language of every single one of them, I doubt very much you Poles speak even one of your neighbour's languages, but if you learn English you can speak to EVERYONE single one of your neighbours, there is a big insentiv to learning English, it is worth the effort.

How much of an asset learning English is and how wide spread it has become, I will giv you an example; today I was in an Chinese restaurant, when I group of Oriental people came in, I assumed that they wer Chinese, but when the waitress took their orders, she had to speak to them and they to her in English, I found out later they wer Vietnamese people not Chinese. So you hav two countries on the other side of the World, right next to each other, and they hav to communicate to each other in English!!!! I think it shows how International English has become the World's lingu franca.

Also it is easier for you to learn English than for us to learn another language.

1. You are all taught English at school, in England we do learn foreign languages, but one school will teach French, another school will teach German, that school teaches Spanish, and another school, trying to be all trendy and right-on, will teach Mandarin or some other language, like my niece's school, and since she has changed schools, she's stop learning Mandarin, and is now learning another language. You don't hav that "stop-start" non sense we hav, you can always add what English you learn to the English you hav already learned.

2. It is worth making the effort as we hav discussed before, no matter how much it is ******* you off it is still worth persevering learning English for all the rewards you are going to get., no English speaker has that incentiv.

3. You watch England language programs and films all the time, pick up a bit of English all the time - I think i hav watch two Polish language (with sub-titles) films in my life.

4. Even today, decades after it started, Pop Music, Rock Music what ever you want to call it, is still over-overwhelmingly in English. I don't think we hav ever had a Polish language Pop song in our charts, I can only think of about 4 foreign language songs that hav got into our Pop charts in the last 50 years, one of them being Gangnam Style which is in the charts at the moment, the others a Hebrew song in the 70's, a Spanish holidaySong in the 70's, una polona Blanca or something like that, there are probably others, but your charts are full of English language songs, and we all know how teenagers love Pop Music and culture, that is another source and insentiv to learn English, which they are already learning at school and watching on Telly at the same time.
Lyzko
4 Feb 2013 #57
Most Poles whom I've met throughout the years are far more tolerant of poor pronunciation than any other nationality, including non-Europeans! Often if they don't understand, they'll usually at least attempt to reconstruct the idea in their language or they'll utter a somewhat hesitant "P-proszę?", "Słucham?" or the like. The Parisian French will flat out ignore or concertedly make nasty fun of you, the Germans will often switch to less the perfect English (a BIG mistake, generally!), the Swedes and the Dutch will simply start laughing at one's feeble efforts to speak their language and other Europeans, like the Americans, will merely speak louderLOL

Either way, in the pronunciation department, the Poles come out ahead.
bullfrog 6 | 602
4 Feb 2013 #58
Citizen67, you are not a native English speaker, are you?
zetigrek
4 Feb 2013 #60
You Poles say you hav 7 neighbours

Since you dug up this thread, originally from 2010, all the disputants who replied to you are English native speakers. Who do you refer to by the phrase "You Poles"?

1. You are all taught English at school, in England we do learn foreign languages, but one school will teach French.

The same situation is in Poland. Some kids at school learn German, other French, another Spanish or Russian...


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