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Declension of town names in prepositional phrases in Polish


musicwriter 5 | 87
18 Jan 2010 #1
I have difficulty learning the system for modifying names of Polish towns that refer to a thing in the town. i.e.

A church in Nieborów (kosciół w Nieborowie)
A shop in Lewiczyn (sklep w Lewiczinie)
A palace in Warszawa (pałac w Warszawie)
A street in Siedlce (ulica w Siedlcach)
A house in Paprotnia (dom w Paprotni) Paprotnie?
A school in Nowy Ręczaje (szkoła w Ręczajach Nowych)

Proszę pomóc
strzyga 2 | 993
18 Jan 2010 #2
It's the locative case (miejscownik) of the place name.

A church in Nieborów (kosciół w Nieborowie)
A shop in Lewiczyn (sklep w Lewiczinie) w Lewiczynie
A palace in Warszawa (pałac w Warszawie)
A street in Siedlce (ulica w Siedlcach)
A house in Paprotnia (dom w Paprotni) Paprotnie? w Paprotni; "w Paprotnie" would be correct if the name were Paprotno
A school in Nowy Ręczaje (szkoła w Ręczajach Nowych) w Nowych Ręczajach - why change the order?
also, I think that should be Nowe Ręczaje

Some place names are tricky and problematic even for the natives.
OP musicwriter 5 | 87
18 Jan 2010 #3
As for Nowy Ręczaje, that's the way it was spelled in a photo caption that appears on panoramio.com.

I like to browse images of Poland on this site, some of the photos were taken early in the morning before the mist has evaporated, which gives a rather ethereal effect.
strzyga 2 | 993
18 Jan 2010 #4
this one? panoramio.com/photo/18891399

yes, it's a nice picture. Unfortunately, the commentary under says that the shrine doesn't exist anymore; it has been taken down. Shame.

The map says Nowe Ręczaje. Looks like the author of the picture unwittingly changed the order of the words.
OP musicwriter 5 | 87
19 Jan 2010 #5
Hooray! I just found a webpage that lists many town names and in the text, they are printed in the locative case. The URL is: lodzkie.travel

Now, maybe I can figure out the mechanics of Polish locative nouns.

Dzięki za wasz pomoc dobrolitwy.
DFD
Derevon 12 | 172
19 Jan 2010 #6
As a rule, nouns with stems ending in any of the following letters have "-ie" endings with no modifications:

B, F, M, N, P, S, W, Z:

£aba -> £abie (Elbe)
Strefa -> Strefie (Zone)
Prom -> Promie (ferry)
Zmiana -> Zmianie (change)
Mapa -> Mapie (map)
Los -> Losie (fate, destiny, outcome, chance)
Warszawa -> Warszawie (Warsaw)
Waza -> Wazie (tureen)

Nouns ending in any of the letters below, also have -ie-ending, but with some modifications:

D, T:

Wada -> Wadzie (flaw, fault)
Blata -> Blacie (tabletop, counter)

The following have endings in "-e" with various modifications. These are:

CHA, GA, KA, £, R:

Blacha -> Blasze (metal plate)
Ulga -> Uldze (relief)
Ameryka -> Ameryce (America)
Upał -> Upale (heat, hot weather)
Lustro -> Lustrze (mirror)

Words with stems ending in the following have locative endings in -u without modifications (with the exception of feminine nouns ending in -cha, -ga and -ka):

C, G, CH, J, K, L, Ż, CZ, RZ, SZ:

Koc -> Kocu (blanket)
Waga -> Wagu (scales)
Dach -> Dachu (roof)
Kraj -> Kraju (country)
Szok -> Szoku (shock)
Stal -> Stalu (steel)
ż -> Wężu (snake) (notice also how ą turns into ę)
Mecz -> Meczu (match)
Powietrze -> Powietrzu (air)
Kosz -> Koszu (basket)

Nouns with stems ending in either of the following have modified -u-endings:

Ć, Ń, Ś, -, ŚĆ:

£okieć -> £okciu (elbow) (note that the e disappears)
Cień -> Cieniu (shadow, shade)
Struś -> Strusiu (ostrich)
Niedźwiedź -> Niedźwiedziu (bear)

There are several other types of declensions too, but I ran out of time. I guess I should have separated them by gender too, since some of the stem endings differ with gender.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
21 Jan 2010 #8
Here are some tricky town names for Muciswriter to decline in the locative case:

A street in Limanowa (ulica w ....................).
A house in Włoszczowa (dom we ....................).
A church in Ostrów Wielkopolski (kościół w .......................).
A church in Ostrów Mazowiecka (kościół w .......................).
A palace in Wrocław (pałac we .........................).

For checking and comment by Derevon (who in my opinion is really good at the declension of name endings).
Derevon 12 | 172
21 Jan 2010 #9
Thanks. ;) I live in Wrocław, so the last one is easy for me, and I would guess the first and/or the second might be declined as an adjective. As for "Ostrów Mazowiecka", I'm quite confused. What does Mazowiecka agree with?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
21 Jan 2010 #10
As a rule, nouns with stems ending in any of the following letters have "-ie" endings with no modifications:
B, F, M, N, P, S, W, Z:

I live in Wrocław, so the last one is easy for me

Though it is easy, you may have noticed that Wrocław does not fit the rule you indicate; the name of the city ends in -w, so it should decline: we Wrocławie, but it doesn't. Any thoughts on that?

[Very few of the native speakers of Polish will tell you the explanation for it, but they are, of course, welcome to do it.]
Derevon 12 | 172
21 Jan 2010 #11
For some reason the stem ending of "Wrocław" is soft, even though it's not visible from the nominative form. Therefore it's conjugated as a noun with soft ending (-iu). It's the same things as with żółw. As to why these words have soft endings, I have absolutely no idea though.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
21 Jan 2010 #12
I am truly amazed at your ability to conceive the right answer without having prior knowledge of the history of the language. Indeed, the final -w in Wrocław was pronounced as a soft w until the end of the 18-th century (the soft w, for example, still exists in Russian to this day). Hence, the ending in "Wrocław' / we Wrocławiu", just the same as in "Toruń / w Toruniu".
gumishu 11 | 5,495
21 Jan 2010 #13
Waga -> Wagu (scales)

it's Waga -> Wadze waga is feminine (note a in the end)

Wag - Wagu - Wag is a river in Slovakia and the name is masculine (same in Polish and in Slovak) - they call it Wah we call it Wag

so you get tama na Wagu - a dam on Wah (looks interesting in English, ain't it ;)
Derevon 12 | 172
21 Jan 2010 #14
Gumishu: Oops. That's right.

Ziemowit: That makes sense. Wrocław had a lot of different names over the years I've heard.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
21 Jan 2010 #15
The locative is in my opinion (by far) the most difficult case. Probably because we often also have a change in the end of the stem.
OP musicwriter 5 | 87
22 Jan 2010 #16
Ulica w Limonowej
Dom we Włoszczowej
Kościoł w Ostrowej Wielkopolskach
Kościoł w Ostrowej Mazowiecach
Pałac we Wrocławiu
Bzibzioh
22 Jan 2010 #17
A street in Limanowa (ulica w ....................).
A house in Włoszczowa (dom we ....................).
A church in Ostrów Wielkopolski (kościół w .......................).
A church in Ostrów Mazowiecka MAZOWIECKI more like it (kościół w ............).
A palace in Wrocław (pałac we .........................).

Ulica w Limonowej LIMANOWEJ
Dom we Włoszczowej GOOD
Kościoł w Ostrowej Wielkopolskach OSTROWIE WIELKOPOLSKIEJ
Kościoł w Ostrowej Mazowiecach OSTROWIE MAZOWIECKIEJ
Pałac we Wrocławiu GOOD JOB!

strzyga 2 | 993
22 Jan 2010 #18
Kościoł w Ostrowej Wielkopolskach OSTROWIE WIELKOPOLSKIEJ

kościół w Ostrowie Wielkopolskim
Ostrów Wielkopolski is masculine

Kościoł w Ostrowej Mazowiecach OSTROWIE MAZOWIECKIEJ

kościół w Ostrowi Mazowieckiej
Ostrów Mazowiecka is feminine.

Dom we Włoszczowej GOOD

we Włoszczowie

I can't post direct links but you may check official sites at triple w powiatostrowmaz . pl ; triple w ostrow-wielkopolski . um . gov . pl and triple w gmina-wloszczowa . pl
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
22 Jan 2010 #19
That makes sense. Wrocław had a lot of different names over the years I've heard.

It did. But what I am trying to tell there is that the Polish name of the city in the 18th century was the same as today, only the final w in it was pronounced softly of which the traces remain in the declension of the name.

Dom we Włoszczowej

The PWN Dictionary of Polish (Słownik poprawnej polszczyzny PWN) of 1973 and 1981 by Witold Doroszewski as well as "Poradnik językowy. Podręcznik dla pracowników prasy, radia i telewizji" of 1969 recommended the forms: do Włoszczowej, we Włoszczowej (adjectival type, like in: w Istebnej, w Limanowej, w Kolbuszowej). It was later decided in the official "Wykaz urzędowych nazw miejscowości w Polsce (vol. 1-3)" of 1982 that the name should be declined according to the noun type of declention (like in: w Kudowie, w Jabłonnie, we Wschowie). The latter is in agreement with the pattern of declention being used locally, so it should indeed be:

do Włoszczowy, we Włoszczowie;

though quite a number of people in Poland (me included) are still used to the former, adjectival pattern of its declension.


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