History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

No I shouldn't say that.
First of all I'm not talking to the Holy Mother the Church.
Secondly the Church is made up of people so you people are responsible for one another, or did you forget that aspect of it all?

Thirdly if the metaphor and practice of "Shepard and flock" is used, then you should be holding the Shepard to higher standards.

If there is corruption within an organization which claims to represent the word of Jesus Christ then that's a fairly substantial inconsistency between official and unofficial policy. That more than anything tells me what I need to know. I never really trust any organization that has large holes and discord between official and unofficial policies and when it comes to The Ever After, then you better have that one sorted out.

I wouldn't be the first to say I could fill a football stadium with the number of Poles I've met who lie through their teeth before and after Sunday service. This tells me the message isn't getting through to a lot of the congregation. Somebody's not doing their job.

Now I'm really done with this thread. I don't see any way I could explain it more explicitly to get my point across. That's what it is and what you do with it is all the same to me.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


I am not talking about commercial activity, I'm talking about taking in more money than is being spent or "invested."


You would if it was but it's as tight as a drum.


No it is not.
The people who currently comprise the ranks of the RCC in Poland cannot legitimately take credit for the accomplishments and sacrifices of others in the past.

The people who currently comprise the ranks of the RCC in Poland must take responsibility for any corruption which infects the organization in the present.

That is according to me.
If you disagree with that then go right ahead.


If these goofs want to talk about spreading the word of God and claim moral superiority (ironic considering the man whose teachings they say they follow) then that level of corruption has to be at ZERO for their message to have the credibility it deserves. You can't claim to represent God and be even a little bit corrupt -it's got to be nil (imho).


I am not saying the church does not benefit people here, they do and that is without question and it'd be dishonest to claim otherwise.

All that being said, it's dishonest to claim there is neither major hypocrisy regarding money and power nor any corruption in this organization in Poland.

Anyway, I said what I wanted to say and anything else would just be going round in circles. Unless anyone has some new angle or perspective I am chiming out for a while.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


No, it's correct. When the church ceases to make a profit here, it'll either close up shop or reposition itself on the market. Nothing personal but that's a fact Jack.


That is an illogical response to an illogical "attack." So the statement "The church in Poland earned its position many times over." is only correct so long as we preclude any intended meaning of "has earned." I.e. the church earned its position in the past but today's lot has to prove its own worth, in other words the current clergy cannot legitimately lay claim to accomplishments which they did nothing to affect.

I am sure if I looked across the gallery I'd find loads of b.s. the other guy is spouting too.
I am not siding against you, I just wanted to comment on those two statements as they stuck out for whatever reason (probably because it's easier to read your posts than the other guy's).

Really, it's all a bit silly, the RCC in Poland is corrupt and Poles don't seem to care or want to pretend otherwise.

But that's the beauty of choice- let people do what they want and they can see where that gets them.


I'm pretty sure the standard of living and way of life enjoyed by the people in: Estonia, Sweden, Denmark, Czech Republic, Norway, Japan or United Kingdom is not because they started as Christian countries but maybe that's just my opinion. Maybe someone else will care to verify that, maybe not.

Keep up the good fight.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


By the looks of it the church is made up of people.
That being said, "the church" is an organization and if this organization is operating within a different set of rules than other organizations despite functioning on a for-profit basis, like most other companies, then one would have to concede that is unfair.

*Disclaimer The RCC in Poland seems to operate on a for-profit basis in practice, until I see otherwise, that's how I'm gonna see it.*


Perhaps that is true but why those in this holier than thou organization accept ill-gotten funds does lead to other questions.


It's not a single sentient body. The honest efforts of those in the past are not something everyone who joins up later should be able to bask in until kingdom come.

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


I'm not looking down on anyone, to the contrary, I'm saying we shouldn't be so ready to look down on others. If you interpret that otherwise then you go ahead and do that.

But:
Can we just agree saying pond scum has more of a right to life than some people makes neither sense nor has any objective validation?

Do I ask too much?

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


So who are you to say what the "right to life" actually is? Why is your definition any more valid than another's?


Maybe they are trying? Maybe they'd actually be doing a lot worse if they really let themselves go -you ever think about that?
What I'm saying applies to anyone you think to be a bigot. They could all be thinking: "who are you to judge us?" You know what I mean?

However some of them may actually be trying to tone it down and this is as far as they can suppress it. Scary isn't it?

At the same time I must ask you to consider the following:

Maybe their situation is a lot worse than you think it is and may be that's why they're like that

Maybe the education system isn't producing what it should be

Maybe the social system here isn't providing what it should be

Maybe their jobs aren't making what they should be

Maybe they're really f'n angry and that's sort of who fall into the cracks when you have "leaders" like the last many years have produced.

I'm not absolving anyone of personal responsibility here but have you ever thought of what it's like to be who they are?
Some people I've met have had really bad influences, and there are likely much worse cases.
Have you ever met some people and wondered what must have gone wrong for them?
Take a look around and figure out why it happens first.
If you do that and then still judge people so harshly then do it again until you get it right.
They have the same right to life as pond scum. Some might even say more.
Maybe, like a pond this is what our society produces?

Work / Any Speed School of English in Poland? [54]

To answer a question the OP may eventually ask:
Avoid Andrzej Stoszek like the plague.
He owns those Speed Schools and people I've met always seem to end up having dysfunctional working relationships with the guy.

Oh and one more thing:
DominicB writes major truth above. Damn that's spot on assessment!

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


To be objective, what right to life does or doesn't pond scum have?

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


why wouldn't they?


some have, some haven't



So much correct in the two posts above

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]

I do wonder if this isn't part of some effort to put more money in parish coffers. Y'know, if there's one less place you can spend your money and the church is still open for business then what's stopping them from accepting your heavily encouraged donations?

It doesn't matter to me for the most part but wouldn't put it past politicians or the R.C. Church in Poland to do this purely for financial gain.

Hope it hasn't come to that though.

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]


Settle down, no need to get excited; notice the first word here?

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]

if that's what the majority want then that's what the majority wants.
Poles lived for quite some time without Sunday shopping so....wait 7 pages have been written on this since it was posted.......never mind.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

So is this thread about whether or not Poles by and large identify themselves as Catholics or something else?

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


And fair enough but that's why I wrote back to you how I interpreted your words. So instead of just telling me I got it wrong could you clarify what you mean>


So Poles get to complain about the roads but if a foreigner working in Poland does so then this is interpreted as arrogance but only if someone complains about it for the wrong reason, like Jason did?


"You?" I was afraid you'd go there but okay, how should I do it and why should I do it? Give me your rules.


Who said we (foreigners) all think the same way? You've shown your face cards time and time again here. You're oversensitive and seem to stereotype foreigners, "you guys" as one homogeneous group of offenders to your sensibilities. Lighten up a bit. Can't we just remark about the same things Poles do without you trying to crucify us? What you wrote about Jason is rather amusing and I now I think I see the point you're making but why paint every foreigner with that brush?

On a side note, shoddy workmanship is something almost every foreigner I've met here has commented on (and I've seen it many times myself), is it wrong of us to discuss these things or do you recommend just accepting it cause, what can you do?


If you have dispensed facef*cks for such a cut-rate price then go ahead and do all the reflecting you need to do sister.
Withstanding that, it's such a stupid remark, I'm surprised you gave it any thought at all. Why even waste a moment of your time on such rubbish? The less audience those people gain, the better.


So now that I know you respond to that quality of post, I now have firm doubts about my own.
It looks like you give such replies more time than they're worth but how you interpret such posts as arrogant is lost on me. To me, those posts just don't look inviting.


sure, you even did it in the same post as this quote:



If you don't consider that childish then first let me offer my sincerest apologies and suggest that perhaps this would account for your views on some things.

Anyhow, I think I finally understand what you were trying to say from the beginning much more clearly.
I also think I understand your tendency to assume the worst of "us" from early on, stereotype "us" and be overreact to comments that are so profoundly stupid it makes me wonder why such a smart cookie like yourself would even care to respond.

I think we're done, thanks for the discussion.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


While I disagree with how this was said. I think I can attest to the observation being made.
Back home, no one asks me which country is "better;" there or Poland. People ask lots of questions but that one has never come up, not even once.

Here, regardless of the topic, THE question I am asked almost without exception (and I'm assuming there's an exception) is "Which country is better?"

If I don't just say "Polska" but try to explain different doesn't necessarily mean "better," those asking get offended.

So for those of you who know what people really think please tell some of us how that should be interpreted.


This seems as though you're pushing an agenda onto this discussion that shouldn't be here.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

On those two points we do share varying degrees of agreement.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

That's my point.
It seems as though, based on her examples, if I were to comment something needed fixing then, in her mind, it'd be an affront to all of Poland. It seems as though she claims to know the "true" intent of what others might say even if they don't.

Speaking of "the difference in mentality"

So there's only a difference in mentality about the things you say there is but all Poles think alike when you say they do about what you say?

Okay then, good to know that's how your mind works.
Maybe you're the type Paulina was trying to describe....

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


From this here:

To me this suggests you don't or you think many Poles don't do anything about problem "x" due to not caring about problem "x." Not all things can be changed but again, if your response is "what can you do?" then that says you don't really care. And it's not a judgmental thing, it's a pure observation. You have your reasons, I am curious what they are but for heaven's sakes, I hope you wouldn't think me arrogant simply for commenting on things other Poles comment on. I hope I've got you completely wrong and that.


Well if I read that the majority of people thought that people where I'm from tend to do this or that I'd ask for some examples and try to get a clearer view of their perspective. I'd give it some thought, y'know decide if there's any merit to the point made, then, objectively reflect on my own habits and decide if i ought to change. I guess that's just me.


I just don't see the sense in being rude simply due to a misunderstanding. Please don't write "us" when I am responding to "you" (Paulina)- it is unfair/inaccurate. Perhaps you can see in this example what I mean about you (Paulina) being overly sensitive to perceived criticism.

I just wanted some examples of when you perceive this superiority complex to come out. I appreciate you taking the time to list those examples, I really do. But aside from pip's usual nonsense it seems you (Paulina) get offended when a foreigner says anything you might perceive as being critical of all of Poland. I was trying to understand your point of view more but your explanation/justification of it has suddenly become childish so good luck with that.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Okay I get ya but are you saying all people from the west have this attitude? How do you perceive who does and doesn't have this attitude? When they "rub it in" what exactly does that mean? What do they actually do other than the example below? I am interested in hearing more of such examples.


I don't know how to answer that but for some people, we are simply remarking at what needs to be done and there is 0 emotion behind it- it just needs to be done and maybe the more that topic comes up, the more likely it is that something will get down about it. Wishful thinking? Perhaps. But even at it's worst, that's nowhere near as heinous reasons you've imagined.


So you're offended people are taking notice of things that really do need fixing because in reality you don't care about those things but it means one of "us" has a superiority complex if one of "us" mentions it more than the alloted times?


I see the merits of your point. I really do. What I mean is, it doesn't make sense to me so far but I think I have probably just missed or can't imagine, right now, the nuances of the situation you described and that likely ties it all together.

But, at the same time, I feel you're over-reacting a bit.
Why get so bothered about something you don't care to change anyhow? It would seem as though you're looking down your nose as much as they might be. I admit it may not be my or another person's place to point out what needs mending but I hardly consider that looking down one's nose at anything beyond shoddy repairing. Is that really something not worth pointing out? Would I be judged harshly for doing that?

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


I don't doubt you or what you're saying. It's just that I am curious if I am allowed to, by some Poles' standards, remark upon my little experience how it deserves to be?

What remarks am I allowed to make?
And if I do so, is that looking down upon my nose, rightfully so, at some behavior? Would it depend on what I remarked?
Is that what they're talking about or is it something else?

I guess I am also still looking for examples of behavior whatever kind of behavior Polonius described (note that I'm not entirely sure what he "said") in the OP. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just want to know their experiences of it, purely out of interest.

If that makes no sense then there's an excellent reason for that: )

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


That is interesting and your whole post was good food for thought.
I think I know what you're talking about and it is one of the reasons I limit the "expats" I actually spend time with.


Is there a difference between an expat and an immigrant in your understanding? I thought there was but I could be wrong.


Like what kind of things do you think or have you observed foreigners look down on?

Here's one sort of thing I find is more common among Poles than others that I've met; the ready willingness to screw over somebody else for the smallest of gains.

I was in the supermarket the other day weighing some things and couldn't locate the icon/picture for one thing. I looked and looked and the old guy behind me (which in Poland means he was actually trying to get between me and the scale) started telling me it was per piece and not per weight. I shrugged and figured he must be right otherwise I'd have found the silly picture by that time. As I left to go check, I heard him tell another old guy how he f*cked over some foreigner and told him his stuff was per piece and they both cackled like they really enjoyed that. He was actually right, it was per piece and he looked genuinely disappointed when I thanked him and told him he was right.

In your opinion, is it justifiable to look down on that kind of behavior even a little bit or am I just being judgmental and arrogant for not embracing that?

What do "expats" look down on that they should just accept or not worry about?

Anyways, I don't want to end on a sour note so let me just say I feel what you wrote previously and think I more or less agree when I apply my own experiences but I am wondering what you specifically meant and your own experiences.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Attacking it how? I'm not saying foreigners don't attack these things but I am curious as to how you perceive these attacks are carried out.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Hey, it was late, what can I say?
What was the point in your opinion?
I mean if you look at what I was responding to, there wasn't exactly a plethora of detail that Polonius really laid out on the table, was there?

Hey, it's early, what can I say?

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


steal?
bear false witness?
Are you trying to start a war here?

Rightly or wrongly those two actions tend to be associated with Poles and I find that ironic given the Catholic tradition here.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Dude, no offense but have you ever visited countries which accept large numbers of immigrants AND observed those immigrants in said countries?
Expats in Poland have got NOTHING on those groups.
The bullsh*t I've seen Chinese people pull in Canada, the horsesh*t anyone who'd name their child Mohammad gets away with in UK, Ireland, France, Sweden and Australia, no sir there is no comparison, not even a little bit.

A lot of the stuff I tend to gripe about is stuff like the lady on the road today who didn't seem to be troubled that she was in the oncoming lane of traffic, it still seemed like a good time for her to stop and search for something inside her vehicle - that sort of thing is so hopelessly moronic yet so incredibly common in Poland.

The in your face corruption is another one that I simply marvel at. I can't do anything about it but if I pay taxes here and someone is wasting those funds then you're damn straight I'm going to speak my mind.

Life / Is multi-culti in Poland bankrupt? [73]


Take your own advice for starters and see where that gets you.


pray tell, what advice did I offer and to whom? You may disagree with my point of view but at least make some sense and try to do better than the clichéd trumpeting of Barry-O. Me thinks he got to where he is today by doing more than just one thing right.

Aaaaaand just to clear up your confusion on the matter, recognizing the failings of "multiculturalism" is in fact not akin to being a racist and a bigot. So don't play that way, that's what emotional 20-something poli-sci chicks do when someone points out the facts to them. But if you are a 20-something chick studying political science then play your role.


I wonder if the posters here will ignore this as much as the more biased media sources.


Going for curry is an event now, is it?

Life / Freedom of religion v animal rights in Poland? [38]

I'll make a note of it; )
Thank you for your honesty: )

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


Exactly. Is this seriously up for debate?

Life / Is multi-culti in Poland bankrupt? [73]

Guys, even heads of state have admitted multi-culti is a failure. Why not just admit you put your faith in the wrong thing and get on the conservative train? toot! toot!

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Why anyone is even arguing this is not for me to say.
One can look at the number of people attending church on a regular basis here.

It may not be a law but if I had to describe the average Pole, I think the words "likely to be Catholic." just might be one of the descriptors I'd use.