News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1536]

A Russian talking about occupiers... .

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1536]

Same counts for the Czech Republic, Denmark, Austria and probably a lot of other countries I am not bothering to check on.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

If he claimed that those were Slavs yes. But they were Serbs in his imagination.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1536]

Incredible isn't it? He invades a country, thereby preventing it from holding elections, and then has the nerve to suggest this "solution".... .

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

As Crow tells it East Germany was also Serbia until the evil Catholic invaders came... .

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]


Interesting. My mistake seems to have been that I clicked on that button before I marked the quotes. Well, you never stop learning I guess.


Just a reminder that it was the Polish PiS government who prevented Hungary from losing its' voting rights in the EU. And now he has Fico who backs him up... .

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


People from the GDR accounted for only 1/4 of the votes. The population of the GDR was smaller than the population the largest West German state NRW. All East German states put together dont' have a blocking minority in the Bundesrat on most issues. Even if the people of the GDR voted all together in strong contrast to the rest - which they dont, there are strong regional differences - it would not paralyze the system. Contrast that with the veto power of a very small country like Hungary in the EU. As it stands now, neither the EU nor Turkey is ready for membership. Maybe in a few decades, but for now that is a pipe dream.


I did just that. That saves one step, but still no name in the quote.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@Bratwurst Boy

Worth remembering that there was a huge corruption scandal in 2013 involving many of Erdogan's close allies and his son.

Police investigations were supressed and many of the responsible police officers were reassigned, demoted, fired and otherwise punished.

The police is now fully under governmental control.

How the Corruption Investigations of 2013 Still Shape Turkey's Bleak Future

vocaleurope.eu/how-the-corruption-investigations-of-2013-still-shape-turkeys-bleak-future/

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


Italy has been there since the beginning yet they are not a founder?

Speaking about Turkey, Erdogan's biggest rival was just arrested, shortly before his likely nomination for the presidential election.

Istanbul mayor arrested days before likely presidential nomination

theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/19/istanbul-mayor-arrested-ekrem-imamoglu-days-before-likely-presidential-nomination-erdogan-ntwnfb


You can also say that red is blue. The FRG had long been a stable democracy when the GDR joined, and the GDR became part of its' political system, and even if it had gone terribly wrong, the GDR was never large enough to become a veto player. An autocratic Turkey however could very well become one in the EU. One only has to look at the kind of damage Hungary, a country with 1/10 of Turkey's population.

I suspect that if the German constitution had offered the same kind of power to e.g. Thuringia, people in West Germany would have either amended it or would have been much more reserved about the prospect of German reunification.


Ok, so then it never worked on my devices, hence I never felt the need to fix it. Case solved.


All I am doing is marking the parts I want to quote, use "quote" and then copy the parts I want to quote in there. If you want to believe that I am doing something else so be it.

@Bobko


Well, without having looked into it, each ranking puts different weight on certain criteria's. Turkey under Erdogan has purged a lot of people after the failed military coup, with a lot of people losing their jobs despite having no ties to the coup attempt. Turkey is one of the countries with the most journalists being jailed, enough to warrant its' own Wikipedia page.

Deniz Yücel was a prominent case of a journalist being incarcerated without any evidence for more than a year, iand he and other journalists were reportedly the victims of abuse during his time in prison.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniz_Y%C3%BCcel

Ultimately you have Erdogan ruling the country for more than 20 years. During this time he changed the constitution in order to stay in power and later to give the previously mostly ceremonial office of president most of the power. Many criticial journalists and opposition politicians are jailed. His party has complete hegemony over the press, any dissenting voice in the state apparatus are purged. He has given his family and friends important positions in the government. His son-in-law was made finance minister (with terrible consequences for the economy) And now the mayor of Istanbul has been arrested. The one opponent Erdogan is still concerned about. Because as former mayor of Istanbul he knows the power and prestige of this office. Before his arrest there have been multiple other to neutralize him as a political threat, including the annulement of the mayoral election, on flimsy grounds.

I would argue that all of this paints a pretty bad picture.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


I provided you with a source stating the opposite. Call Italy a member of the "Inner Six" if it makes you feel better. The point is that they have a special position in the EU thanks to their history.


Not sure what you are saying here. Erdogan has been transforming his country into an autocracy for more than a decade now and at this point, there is little reason to think that anyone can stop him. And even if someone does, it will take many, many years to reverse the damage done by him to the democratic system and culture of his country.


He wouldn't. As far as I know he never reconciled himself with his fall from power, let alone German reunification. . His wife spent decades living in Chile, mourning for the GDR. I think they viewed it as conquest in form of a counterrevolution or something.

Again, this is just a silly idea.


I am not. I've bought a new phone a few years ago, and since then I seem to recall having this issue. Or maybe it is a different reason, dont know, dont care. If people had shown trouble with comprehending my posts I would have looked for a fix, but that doesnt seem necessary.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


It is relevant in so far as it may explain your lack of knowledge on the conditions Turkey. I suppose the recent Turkish elections did not receive much attention in the UK?


Just because the UK joined later doesn't mean you can just start the history of the EU later.

The EU is pretty clear on this and the date of its' foundation (hint: It is not 1992)

enlargement.ec.europa.eu/enlargement-policy/6-27-members_en#:~:text=The%20organisation%20founded%20in%201957,Italy%2C%20Luxembourg%20and%20the%20Netherlands.


It wasn' and it is not. Maybe there is a fix for it, but why bother to look for it if people can understand what I write just fine?


That is such silly take. West Germany and Germany are the same entity. The most obvious aign being that "West Germany" was just unofficial nickname, while the official name was and is Federal Republic of Germany.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@Ironside


Again, read the article. Those are well-publicized issues. And since Germany has a large Turkish migrant population, those problems have received a lot of publicity here. Perhaps this is something that has not been of much interest in the UK?


The founding members of the EU are the Benelux, Italy, France and Germany.


And Greece has a veto against Turkey joining the EU. As does Cyprus.

Not that it matters. Turkey is not even pretending that it is trying to pass the membership criterias anymore.


Not if someone like Salvini replaces her.

@Ironside


Even though they are currently buying more fossil fuel from Russia than the other European countries combined?

energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russian-fossil-fuels-in-third-year-of-invasion-surpass-financial-aid-sent-to-ukraine/

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


Chaos is not the issue. But if most of the news outlets are directly or indirectly controlled by the government, and the state-run media is almost exclusively advertising for Erdogan, it is hard to say that those conditions are fair.

Turkish election 'free but not fair', say international observers

euronews.com/2023/05/30/turkish-election-free-but-not-fair-say-international-observers

"Erdogan received nearly 33 hours of airtime on the main state-run TV station, according to opposition members of the broadcasting watchdog, while his presidential opponent, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, received 32 minutes."


It is really not. Those countries haven't imported that much Russian fossil fuels to in absolute terms to begin with, so their embargo by themselves won't have much effect. And they lack the means to enforce an embargo via the EU. Even prolonging the sanctions is not a sure thing.


Yeah, I can see Meloni telling this to her voters. It may make you feel good to write those words, but they are far removed from reality.


It helps being a founding member of the EU.

In all seriousness, the only scenario in which a EU-membership of Turkey is remotely feasible would be one in which Erdogan's successor implements a decade-long democratic reform process and settles all territorial disputes with other European countries to the latters satisfaction. Which I don't see happening.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


I suggest you read up under which conditions the opposition had to contend in the last presidential election, or how Erdogan is treating the mayor of Istanbul, who is perhaps his biggest possible rival. Yeah, politics aren't dead and there are still free elections, but they are hardly what I would call fair.
And the situation is just getting worse, not better.

The EU took a calculated risk when it admitted Eastern European countries in the hope that this would encourage democratic progress in their societies. It has largely worked, but Hungary shows clearly the possible risks for the EU down the line. And Turkey is several times larger.


Relatively maybe. But far from the majority. We are talking about what? 140m out of 500m Europeans?


Well, those are the countries who have either alternative sources of energy and/or view Russia as an immediate threat to their own country. Try to look at it from the perspective of Italy. The country is still reeling from the Euro, Covid and refugee crisis, with its' public finances being stretched thin. The refusal of many Eastern European countries to show solidarity during the refugee crisis is still being remembered there. Russia is relatively far away, and the Italian peninsula is easy to defend in any case. No doubt many Italians feel solidarity with Ukraine, and Italy is still supporting Ukraine (although in relatively small quantities). But if the fighting stops in 2025, then I am pretty sure that calls to openly trade with Russia in 2-3 years will be hard to ignore for any government in Rome.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


We shall see. They have hit a bumpy road lately. Erdogan has a rather unique view on inflation and economy, which becomes problematic since there is no one stopping him from implementing them.

And while Turkey has potential, it is too unstable to become a member of the EU, let alone becoming the largest one.


Resuming implies that Europe ever stopped. It did'nt.

energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russian-fossil-fuels-in-third-year-of-invasion-surpass-financial-aid-sent-to-ukraine/

There won't be a long-term boycott of Russian energy imports after the fighting stops.That is not my wish but simply a realistic assessment of the situation. The only countries that are fundamentally opposed to this are some of the Eastern European countries (but no all of them), the Baltic states, Scandinavia and the UK.

You don't even need to point at Germany. Countries like Italy have been pretty vocal about their desire to openly resume trade with Ukraine after the war ends.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


Hardly. Turkey under Erdogan has made several steps backs on its' democratic evolution. There is no prospect of them fullfilling the membership criterias. We have already enough problems with one wannabe autocrat in Hungary, we dont need another one.


I'd say the chances for that are 50/50. If Trump and Putin agree to a ceasefire that holds, then it would be logical to make an opening of NSII part of the negotiations with Russia. It is one of the few leverages we still have left that could incentive Putin to make some concessions. And realistically speaking, based on how much European countries are still importing Russian oil and gas, it is also what those countries will demand.

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

@jon357


Germany has been far more hawkish on Russia since 2015 than Turkey. Turkey has not implemented sanctions and is not - unlike all other NATO members - not on Russia's "unfriendly countries" list. And if you look at Turkey's geopolitical ambitions, Russia is far down the list of concerns for them, while Turkey's problems are far removed from Poland's. Do you see Polish soldiers fighting in Northern Syria? Or Turkish soldiers defending Vilnius?

@amiga500


I suggest to anyone believing that to read up on the foreign political history of Turkey of the last 50 or so years. Turkey has a complicated history with Russia, and there have been tensions and rivalries to be sure. But also close cooperation including the Turkish purchase of Russia S-400 systems. Russia and Turkey have often different goals in the ME, but ultimately they have usually worked out a modus vivendi. Ultimately Turkey has little reason to be concerned with Russia.They have defensible borders in the North, no territorial disputes with them (unlike with e.g. Greece, Cyprus, Syria and the Kurds) and a very healthy demographic outlook. By 2060 Turkey may have a larger population than Russia.


I suppose being a reliable partner and ally for several decadea counts ultimately very little.... .

News / Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe. [202]

Someone explain to me the logic of including Turkey into the list but not Germany. I mean seriously, Turkey is involved in geopolitical conflicts with most of its' neighbours and picked one with Israel. Conflicts on which Poland is usually supportive of the other side.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20 [1536]

Military aid delivered to Ukraine by Germany in the last 4 weeks;

- 24 FFG MRAP vehicles
- ? 105mm Ammunition For Leopard 1
- ? 20mm Ammunition for Marder 1
- 3 Gepard/Cheetah Self-propelled Anti-Aircraft Guns
- 10.000 Rounds of 35mm Ammunition For Gepard/Skynex
- ? IRIS-T SLM Missiles
- v 5.000 Rounds of 155mm Artillery Ammunition
- 2.000 Rounds of 122mm Artillery Ammunition
- 8.000 Rounds of 120mm Mortar Ammunition
- 50 Vector Reconnaissance Drones
- 30 Gereon RCS Ground Drones
- 30 Drone Detection Systems
- 2 Wisent-1 Mine Clearance tanks
- 100 H-PEMBS Portabe mine Clearance Systems
- 2 Mine Ploughs
- 556 Laser Range Finders
- 255 Infrared Binoculers
- 2 Border Protection vehicles
- 95 MK556 Assault Rifles
- 1.340 HK416 Assault Rifles
- 765.000 First Aid Kits

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [575]

In hindsight PiS must be glad that they are out of power now. Imagine if they had to explain this mess. The country (USA) they prioritized turning their back on Europe and Warsaw, while the relations to Berlin have been strained by petty and needless arguments.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]

Out of curiosity, are there any discussions in Poland about sensing soldiers in Ukraine in order to secure a possible ceasefire deal?

Off-Topic / Serbia etc. thread 3 [423]

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News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [575]

Anyone who hasn't been scared by statements from AfD politicians will hardly be affected by this. People vote for the AfD because of this kind of rhetoric, not in spite of it.

News / European News and Poland Thread - part 4 [352]

It is part of the Russian propaganda campaign. That is enough to know what it is. What you regularly quote from it just confirms it.

News / European News and Poland Thread - part 4 [352]

@Novichok


I already did. Or to be more exact, Alien did. There is nothing left to add.


There is no value in reading that garbage.

News / European News and Poland Thread - part 4 [352]

@Alien


Indeed. This is how such cases are handled. One can frame it in a cynical and inflammatory way like RT does to no ones surprise but ultimately it is just due process.

News / European News and Poland Thread - part 4 [352]

A known islam critic is hardly the kind of person one pegs for attacking a christmas market.....

News / Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa [113]

@jon357


Believe what you want. It would be nice if the names were in the brackets, then I would not have to manually add the before I insert quotes, but it is how it is. I just copy what I want to quote and put it in quote brackets. Since everyone seems to understand when he is referred to, it is not a problem I am particulary interested in solving.


You... You are aware that the Netherlands have a more urbanized population than the UK right? And that it shares a land border with Belgium, the most urbanized country in Europe, and is partof/close to the most densely populated regions in Europe? Knowing that, no one could possibly believe that the UK was in a more challenging position during Covid than the Netherlands.

While the UK is surrounded by sea (and that land border in Ireland but still).

News / Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa [113]

@jon357


I do no such thing. They are just not in the brackets when I use them.


Might ask you the same question. You came up with the idea that the UK - an island no less - was in a uniquely challenging in Europe situation during Covid due to its' population density. Like seriously. As if being densely populated was something uniquely to the UK.... .

News / Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa [113]

@jon357


Sure. If you try someone in a German court, the German system applies. If you try someone in Poland, the Polish system applies. If you want to extradite someone, you'll have to convince the court of the country in question.


The UK had also some key advantages. It is literally an island and not that densely populated. Compare that to e.g. Germany, whose population is on average older, and was neighbouring countries that had extremely high infection rates at times (AUstria, Netherlands, Czech Republic). The jury is still out how badly the UK did compared to other European countries, but there is nothing to suggest that it perform well compared to most.


We are talking about not having enough evidence to charge someone with murder. That was the initial problem with prosecuting him. That is not abusing anything.