News / AfD politician: Poles are land-stealing n*ggers [131]


Because as I explained, the case has been legally closed for many years now.

Multiple Polish governments have confirmed the waiver and its' effect. That is beyond dispute, even if you try to downplay it.
There was never any doubt about it's validity until PiS discovered the reparation issue as a way to rile up domestic support, more than 60 years after Poland had waived any claims towards reparations. PiS has now seemingly put a lot of money and effort in trying to prove otherwise, but if your post is a good indication of what they came up with, it is not nearly enough to overturn the precedence set by more than 60 years. I mean really, this is ultimately the argument? "Our governments got it wrong for the last 60 years and we get it right?"


Hardly. For one, PiS has ruled for 8 years and used this as a sledgehammer while Russia invaded Ukraine and threatens Poland. But other than poisening relations, it has done absolutely nothing with it.

And even assuming Germany settled the reparation issue (again) with a Tusk government and agree to pay symbolical amount (maybe 1-10bn).

What would that solve or change? It wouldn't improve the legal position, since the issue had been settled years ago anyway. Germany would benefit in no way from it, and in return other countries might see this as an opportunity to seek reparations from Germany as well (because after all, if a closed case like this one can nevertheless be reopened, why couldn't others be opened again?).

PiS would use this as another example of Tusk selling out to Germany, blame him for getting only pittance (because anything Germany could realistically offer is a pittance compared to what Pis claims). And since PiS has no compunction about disregarding past settlements and views from previous governments, it would also inevitably find a way to "prove" that this settlement wasn't valid either. I mean the narrative is obious, the Polish government in 1953 who bowed to the Soviets, Tusk who bows to Germany and Bruessels... . Traitors who acted against Poland's interest, as opposed to PiS.... .

All we can at this point is a) offering some symbolic gestures like the ones I proposed and b) counting on time and the threat of Putin to put this issue to rest once again.

In a few years, the last surviving victims of WWII will have passed on. Poland will have become one of Europes' most prosperous countries and (hopefully) the threat of Russia will still be felt, but will not have caused more victims. By then the notion of claiming reparations will appear as ridiculous to most people as would be the claim to redraw the German-Polish border appears to most people now.

News / AfD politician: Poles are land-stealing n*ggers [131]


This is not true. The waiver has been confirmed by several Polish government, the last time in 2006.

Legally speaking, this is an open and shut case, like I explained.

There is nothing to reopen from a legal point or view here. However like I said, it may be right from a moral point of view to make some symbolical reparations.

News / AfD politician: Poles are land-stealing n*ggers [131]


That is actually not true. The waiver in question is perfectly valid from a legal point of view.

Whether or not the Soviet Union applied pressure on Poland is inconsequential. There is no "duress" in international law that could invalidate agreements, treaties and so on. Otherwise most peace treaties would be considered void as well, if they were signed after putting (military) pressure on one side.

The waiver was subsequently confirmed by successive Polish governments as valid, the last time in 2006. Compared to that, whether or not it originally adhered to the constitutional laws of the People's republic is inconsequential in international law.

notesfrompoland.com/2024/07/08/majority-of-poles-want-government-to-seek-war-reparations-from-germany/

So yeah, legally speaking the matter is closed.

I think it would be wise of Germany to offer some symbolic reparations, e.g. further compensation for surviving victims or the restauration of some representative buildings that have been destroyed (e.g. the Saxon palace). But then again, PiS has poisened this debate so much that anything Germany could realistically offer would be considered as pittance compared to the amount it supposedly owns in reparation. And I fear it is only a matter of time until the AfD discovers this topic for themselves. It is all a folly, considering there is a very real war ongoing in Europe right now.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 26 [1018]


And yet he dedicates so much time and ressources on imprisoning and/or killing anyone who is even remotely looking like he could become a popular figure of the opposition.

The man "wins" an election and then feels the need to let his agent conduct a complicated assassination attempt on Nawalny using a weapon of mass destruction.


And why would he? He and his cronies simply take what they want directly from the treasury.

News / Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland [462]


I don't. I just pointed out that Schäuble took a more moderate position in the discussions as compared to many of his counterparts from Eastern Europe. That he was often singled-out as the one being unduly harsh on the Greeks was always unfair, but given his prominent position probably inevitable.

It is a real shame that Schäuble died a few years ago, since his advice was greatly valued by Merz. And in those difficult days ahead of us, Merz could certainly do with good advice.

News / Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland [462]


He was mostly concerned with how the Greeks were jeopardizing the future of the EU and the Euro with their conduct, particulary the Tsipras government.

Worth remembering that he was still more sympathic towards the Greeks than many politicians in Eastern Europe, who used to complain that they were asked to provide guarantees for a country that still offered its' citizens higher social benefits and pensions than they did for their own.

News / Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland [462]


True. So far the pressure is not big enough to really change things here. In large parts because the crisis is still not really felt amongst the Germans. Most of which are still relatively well off and the government was able to cover up most holes in the budget with its' record spending.

And like I said, a big crisis can be a chance to modernize. There are plenty of states and empires who failed to do so and declined.

To their credit, the Greeks seemed to have used this opportunity. Whether or not they would have done so without outside pressure is another question.

News / Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland [462]

Sometimes a big crisis can be a chance to modernize.

And to give the Greeks credit, they used this opportunity very well, even if it was forced on them.

Greece used to be one of, if not the least organized and outdated states in the EU. Now they have modernized so much that few states in the world can e.g. offer their citizen such efficient public services. Much less res tape now (and paperwork almost exclusively digitally). And that from a state that 10 years did not even have a comprehensive overview of all the landowners and people who owned a house... .

They also seem to have sufficiently reformed their pension systems. Something most European countries still lack the determination and political will to so.

News / Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland [462]


The similiarities are certainly astonishing.


While simultaneously securing his voting base amongst the rural elderly by giving them generous pension payments which are not feasible in the long-term. All of Europe is facing a demographic crisis in the future, but the situation in Hungary is especially worrysome. The system Orban is heavily dependent on EU funds to keep working. And it is only a matter of time until that ends. Either because the other EU countries get fed up with him, or because the money will be needed elsewhere.

Just a reminder, Hungary is now the poorest EU country.

dailynewshungary.com/hungary-officially-poorest-country-eu/

How different Poland has developed in the meantime.

Orban has made his country poorer, older, less influential in Europe and his conduct towards Kiev and Moscow has been disgraceful and harmful for Hungary's future.

Polonia / What do Poles think of how they are treated in Germany, in comparison to the Muslim migrants [181]


Yeah, right.

Polish right-wing MP douses Jewish menorah with fire extinguisher

Grzegorz Braun was kicked out of the parliamentary session for his stunt

politico.eu/article/grzegorz-braun-poland-parliament-jewish-hanukkah-menorah/

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


There is no split on Ukraine and Putin, that is just your projection. Just look at what the party leadership is actually saying on the subject.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


You are again projecting your personal wishes on the AfD.

"Germany: AfD leader rejects arms exports and 'one-sided' support for Israel
Germany's AfD party leadership is against sending weapons to Israel and calling for an end to the "one-sided partisanship" in support of the country

rmx.news/article/germany-afd-leader-rejects-arms-exports-and-one-sided-support-for-israel-calls-for-end-to-blanket-islamophobia/

The AfD shows solidarity with jews when they can use it to agitate against muslims.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]

Do you really want to play the "far right antisemitism is not a serious problem in Germany" game... .

Halle has been only a few years ago... .

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


I mean yeah, they also probably don't want to be monsters. But is it really so difficult for you to understand why things like basic health care and schooling will never be cut (and indeed doing so would be directly be against our interest). We dont want people not going to a doctor if they have a possibly contagious disease, and not allowing their children to go to school was one mistake which we made with the Gastarbeiter generation.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Again, we won't be able to reduce the "pull factors" to the degree that wouldn't make it appealing for people to come if the alternative is a refugee in Libanon. Things like basic health care and schooling are things people are willing to risk their life for.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]

The shop owner is btw a man whose first name is "Hans". Not a popular name amongst muslim migrants I might add.


Maybe not with refugees from many African countries who flee from poverty. But people from Syria and Afghanistan are usually accepted as refugees, hence a valid comparison.


Even if that was true. Clear-cut immigration makes only for a small share amongst the refugees. I think Ukrainians, Syrians and Afghans - all genuine refugees - make up for more than 80% of the cases last time I checked. So even if implemented, we would not see a decrease to a degree that would make you satisfied.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


A bit melodramatic. A government can also fight e.g. crime, but will never be able to prevent all crimes or identify and punish all criminals. But as long as it does everything it reasonably can and achieve satisfactory results, that is enough for most people. That is what our government should be aiming for.


They were fortunate to have a country nearby that accepted them and offered them a decent shot at life. What is your point? That the Syrians in Libanon should have immediately made their way towards Europe instead?


This is such an unrealistic take on people. Yes, people are initially immensely grateful if they are out of harms way and receive very basic accomodations. But if they are stuck in tents for years, with no job opportunities, no chance for their children to even receive a basic education, no chance of integration and no realistic perspective of returning to their home, they'll consider leaving.

Just a reminder. You had people in the GDR risking their lifes while trying to enter the FRG, even though the differences between the standard of living between the two countries was significantly lower than between the FRG and a refugee camp in Libanon. Because they did not see a future for themselves there.

Btw. There are documentaries about German refugees after WWII who were forced to live in tent camps for years. They were interviewed there, and they usually didn't say "we are so happy to be still alive" but that they dislike their current living situation, that they want proper homes and schools for their children. Of course they did not have other places to go since most of Europe was still destroyed.

Lets' not pretend that refugees are self-sufficient to the point of abandoning all wants and needs.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Any suggestions how that would work? The countries outside Europe won't keep them, and once they enter Europe, they have the right to due process.

The UK is an island, left the EU and was led by the Tories for many years, yet the number of new arrivals was 100k or so last years. If you can't keep them from reaching the UK, you won't be able to prevent them from reaching Italy.


Like I wrote above. Simply register them and take them back if they turn up in a different country asking for welfare. Once it becomes clear that they can't pick their host country, they'll stay put. Simple.


We are richer and better run than more than 95% of the planet. Just a reminder to keep things in perspective.


I don't want to "carry on". On the contrary it is my belief that we need drastic changes hence my insistence on a European solution and my praise for the changes already implemented by the Merz government. But I am also a realist who knows that there are limits to what we can achieve. Migration is a reality and we will never get the number of non-European refugees down to where they were in the 20th century. That is simply not going to happen. And I am not of fan of making promises that can not be fullfilled. What I hope happens is that we reduce the numbers sufficiently that we can properly with them again. But I doubt it will go down much further than 100k new arrivals per year.


How many of those "safe" countries even offer that? If you live in a refugee camp in Libanon, even those basic utilities will look like luxuries to you. Most of the "pull factors" we have like education and basic healthcare aren't things we can take off the table.

I used to think that this might make a difference. But after I learned how life for many Afghans is like, even before the Taliban retook power, especially in rural areas. Living in small huts with no electricity or running water, no access to medicine or schools, no job prospects. Honestly, even if you reduced everything to bed, bred and soap for rejected refugees, they still wouldn't leave.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [1442]

Why would they? They are both far-right populist parties, but what they actually want is the exact opposite of each other.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


No, hence the need to distribute them fairly across Europe.


Evidence such as? Those are undocumented refugees who have been (intentionally) not registered by Polish officials. That is just an excuse not to accept them.


Ukrainians are no more or less "real" refugees then people fleeing from Syria and Afghanistan. Following your logic, we shouldnt accept any of them wither, since they have all been safe in the countries bordering Germany.


Because we take our laws and values seriously? we don't have a clause in our asylum laws that ban people people with different skin colours and beliefs from claiming asylum. And we need to take in our fair share of refugees since we can not leave the border countries to take care of all arrivals. Because that led to the breakdown of Dublin and the mess we still are in.


This is such an empty slogan. What kind of perspective do young people in e.g. Afghanistan have right now? Say what you want about the refugees who make it to Europe, but they are not cowards. I wonder how many Europeans would be comfortable with risking their lifes on small boats in the Mediterranean. Just a reminder. After the Soviet Union crushed the uprising in 1953, the first reaction of many East Germans was not to try again, but to leave the country in such large numbers, that the GDR built a wall. At some point people will lose hope in making a living in their home country, and I can't blame anyone for losing hope in a Taliban-run Afghanistan.


Some countries have sure, and I'd count Germany amongst them as well, hence the need to lower the numbers of arrivals. But Europe has 500m people. We could easily deal with the current number of arrivals if they are distributed equally amongst the countries.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


There are two flaws in your premise here.

1. Ukrainians are by no means universally welcomed by their host countries and there is a growing backlash against them.

2. The two largest groups of non-European refugees are from Syria and Afghanistan. Two groups of whom it can hardly be said that they don't have legitimate reasons to leave their countries.

Yes, refugees have in the past fled to neighbouring countries (though many fled further still) and stayed there until it was safe or they assimilated. Problem is, if those countries do not afford them the opportunity to assimilate, do not allow their children to go to school, and their home countries remain unsafe for many years, then you can't expect them to stay put. Which is what happened with e.g. many Syrians leaving Libanon and Turkey for Europe.

So saying that the Arab and African countries (which mind you are significantly poorer and unstable) should take care of the refugees is not only ignorant of how they are already doing this to a large degree, it also ignores the limit of what they can do.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


This may come as a surprise to you, but they do. Turkey and Lebanon have taken in (several times) more Syrian refugees than all of Europe.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_civil_war

90% of all Afghan refugees are living in Iran and Pakistan.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_refugees

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


They can if they stop peddling the illusion to their populations that they can keep offloading the burden to other countries. The reason why there is no European solution yet is because some governments - most prominently Poland - pretended that wasn't their problem, since the refugees were coming via Southern Europe. Which wasn't very far-thinking in the light of the current Ukrainian refugee crisis.]

We are currently observing how the mood is turning against Ukrainian refugees in countries who have taken in a disprortionate number of them. Not only is it likely that the war will continue for several more years, it is entirely possible that significantly more Ukrainians will be forced to flee down the line. The only vianle solution to this is relocating them to countries that haven't yet taken in many Ukrainians.

And that doesn't even include the possibility of further hostilities on the European continent. Russia may start a conflict against other European countries, or encourage its' allies in e.g. Serbia to start trouble in the Balkans. We need a European solution before this can happen.


Of course that is enough. If that was the standard the police applied, then this was rather accomodating towards Poland. Any refugee caught within a radius of 100 km around the border should be considered as coming from there. Refugees entering from Austria into Bavaria aren't going to travel to Görlitz im order to apply for asylum. That concerned only a couple of hundred refugees, and yet that was intolerable to Poland. If you are of the opinion that Poland shouldn't take any refugee back, fine. But then be honest about it and don't pretend you would be fine with Germany introducing far-reaching border controles that would prevent any refugee from leaving Poland.


Simple. Process their claims, share their identity in a European databank system, and if they turn up in a different country, take them back. They'll try to leave once or twice, and then they'll stay since they can not apply for social benefits before being identified.


Pretty much all refugees have entered their host country illegally so that is a non-answer.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Nonsense. German police only attempted to return a fraction of the arrivals from Poland and only those who were caught near the border. And even those few cases, who undeniably came from Poland were not acceptable for Poland.


It is one of the two possible solution. Either we leave the border countries to process all asylum claims, which we used to do until they could no longer handle the strain, or the EU decides to relocate the refugees and each country takes in their share based on its' wealth and population size. Which is where we are now heading towards, but we could have reached that point years ago, if not for Poland's short-sighted obstruction.


You want to make every Ukrainian fleeing from Putin's war a criminal?

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


And even that was unacceptable to Poland. They made a fuzz about a few returned refugees, what would their reaction be if they were stuck with every single migrant who makes it across the Polish-Belarus border?


Finding a European solution for the refugee crisis. Now where have I heard that before?

German chancellor calls for 'European solution' on migration

politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-calls-for-european-solution-on-migration/

Just a reminder that Poland spent years sabotaging any attempts at finding such a solution because they thought it wasn't their problem since those refugees arrived via Southern Europe.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Better than to be deceived by simple slogans and solutions. Especially if we can already observe the problems with them.

What was the reaction in Poland when Germany sent back refugees who tried to cross the Polish-German border? Did they say: "Finally, Germany is protecting its' borders like it should have done years ago! And of course we will take back that refugee who tried to cross the Oder near Frankfurt and who arrived in Poland via Belarus."?

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


When would this crisis be considered "solved' though? As long as a single refugee arrives, the AfD will claim that the problem is not solved. The number of new arrivals has gone down by more than 60% compared to last year. Maybe it can be reduced to less than 100k per year, but this number will never go much lower than that.

The UK has left the EU, had Tory governments that were tough on refugees and - perhaps most importantly - are an island, yet they had roughly 100k refugee applications last year.

We will never be able to back to the times when we had a few thousand refugees per year. That is simply no longer possible, given the world we live in today.


I havent read the book yet. But the author found apparantly evidence for that from the time back then when Höcke was still a teacher.


We are not living in a dictatorship but in a democracy with the rule of law and separations of power. This is something I think people are forgetting. The government doesnt enjoy unlimited power, least of all the federal government which is subject to so many checks and balances. I pointed out some of the problems that are already encountered by the Merz government.


Those weren't blind spots. Adenauer was fully aware of whom he was dealing with, but he had a good eye for talent and and knew who could be relied on. Which was tremendously important because a) a lot of the important decisions required absolute confidentiality and b) most of the institutions had to be rebuilt so he had to rely more on a few individuals in key positions than his successors.

Another thing to consider is the different mentality towards the past of individuals and their eligibility for prominent positions. Today we think that someone like Globke should never hold a high position in government, or someone like Hans Filbinger should never be voted into office. Back then however the majority of Germans believed (many with self-serving reasons) that if someone did not implicate himself too much during the Third Reich, then he should be given a second chance. And to be entirely fair towards Globke, his true culpability it is still a matter of great debate amongst historians.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Sounds easy right? Of course then you European law and Human Right conventions that contradict that law. Neighbours who refuse to take them back, like we are already seeing with Poland.... Refugees who make it on German soil and apply to German courts.... Sick and infirm refugees who are in need of immediate medical attention... The economic and political fallout from such controles.

It remains to be seen if the (comparatively limited) measures taken by the Merz government citing special circumstances caused by high refugee numbers will survive the judicial appeals.

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Because like I said, it is not their doomed to fail reform attempts regarding our refugee system that worrys me.

The refugee crisis is just the key issue the AfD wants to exploit in order to get into a position that allows them to implement their real plans.

There is a new book coming out with apparantly some fascinating insights into Höcke's ideology, written by an author from the conservative newspaper Die Welt. He seemed to have held those views well before Merkel became chancellor.

Höckes eigentliches Feindbild ist nicht Merkel, sondern Adenauer

welt.de/politik/deutschland/article68c948df420d2a3ce3b51b2f/rechtsextremer-vordenker-hoeckes-eigentliches-feindbild-ist-nicht-merkel-sondern-adenauer.html

"The thesis, advanced for years by the author of this foreword, that Angela Merkel was the involuntary midwife of the AfD, must also be reconsidered - at least as far as Höcke is concerned. He was not radicalized by a "welcoming culture" or a supposed leftward shift of the CDU/CSU parties. Höcke suffers from American popular culture, "reeducation," Western ties, and a struggle to come to terms with the past.

His real enemy is not Merkel, but Adenauer. He suffers from the fact that Germany's "long road to the West" finally succeeded under the great CDU chancellor after such painful detours. Höcke rejects more than just "Merkel's Germany." The good old Federal Republic is a horror to him!"

News / Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland [122]


Those cuts have already been made in the last few years. Maybe some additional measures can be taken against rejected asylum seekers, but not to the extent that you imagine. The courts have been very clear on this issue.

Regular asylum seekers will still receive free housing, food and basic healthcare and access to schools. That is something the AfD couldn't change even if they got above 50% of the votes.


Peanuts compared to the financial gaps that the demographic change will cause in the future.

And especially if we see a significant increase of Ukrainian refugees in the future.


Which was an argument used to defend Merkel's decision to not close the border, since it would have required those measures, but much larger in scale and intensity.