News / Poland being the powerhouse of Europe [40]


Not to be too pedantic, but that statement is factually not true. Poland neighbors Russia directly, as well as Germany. If Germany is to be considered an unfair comparison, then Russia should be comparable.

This data from 2014 shows Russia high above Poland in FDI per capita (it would not make sense to compare absolutes):

What's curious from this data is that Poland is in fact an investor nation. Russia has an FDI per capita of $492, while Poland is negative with -$119. At face value this indicates that Polish businesses find it more profitable to acquire/invest in foreign assets than deploy the capital at home. It's possible that if you strip out investments into energy projects from the mix, that Russia will have a profile more similar to Poland's, with money earned in Russia leaving the country, but as it stands it looks more attractive by the numbers. Slovakia and the Czech Republic are also far ahead of Poland by this measure. The New York Times article said as much in one of the paragraphs. The argument the author laid out there was not about large infusions from abroad, but rather a steady build up at home in traditional sectors that have disappeared or are close to disappearing in most other OECD countries, i.e. manufacturing.

• 
  FDI per capita (Europe - 2014)
  

Law / Roof Access in Poland - what is the law? [9]


pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wsp%C3%B3lnota_mieszkaniowa

Read the wiki article on Wspolnota. Seems the legal entity that is the homeowner's association can in fact be sued. As I understand it, if someone falls off the roof his family would be suing all of the owners at once - haha!

Classifieds / Looking FUN in Warsaw [7]

Druzenje is not a Russian word.

back on topic please

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]


Seems boring to me. There's value in diversity.

News / Poland's Lost Generation [172]


Curious phrasing.


Where do these sounds come from?

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]

@Crow

But Crow... Poland and Baltics are in NATO?

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]


I'm afraid that yours is the bullshit proclamation. Mind you, this quote was also from a NY Times article - they're not sloppy on the factchecking. In 1991 the Soviet Union had 63,900 tanks of all types in service and in storage. The present day figure for Russia is 2,700 in active service and 17,300 in storage (they are allowed no more than 20,000 under the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe). The 2,700 tanks in active service are all modern tanks, from T-72B, to T-72B3, T-90S, T90SM.

Regarding the 100,000 being an exaggeration I would also like to call bullshit. The Russian Armed Forces have around 1 million personnel total, with another 2.5 million in reserve. Out of the 1 million, around 450,000 belong to the Ground Forces (in America it would be called the Army), another 280,000 in the Air Force, 180,000 in the Navy and so on. Are you still sure in that Russia can't spare 100,000 men for these drills? The units involved in action in the Ukraine numbered in the hundreds, or low thousands, and it was still enough to crush the Ukrainian army and force Kiev to sign the humiliating Minsk Accords.

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]


Such an expert. By this measure the M1 Abrams is a useless rust bucket too, and if one is to take the analogy to airplanes then the B-52 Stratofortress shouldn't be flying at all (maiden flight 1952). Military equipment has modernization potential you know. The T-72B3 I listed (currently 600 T-72B tanks have been upgraded to that standard) is actually a very modern version of the T-72, which is in many ways superior to the newer (at least by nomenclature) T-90. Here's a link:

nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-t-72b3-the-lethal-russian-tank-ukraine-fears-most-16500


I don't know where you are pulling this info out of. Cite me a single source that lists Russian combat forces at under even 200,000 and I will admit that I am a Russian troll.

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]

Ok. That's as good a way to slide out of a debate as any.

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]

Banderists should try to prevent their state from collapsing, before thinking about attacking Russians or Poles.

Life / Drugs in Warsaw [111]

Watch out for the Nigerians selling baby laxative outside clubs.

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]



Hate to rain on your parade Weg04, but it's kinda been the other way around. Your Ukrainian friends received an epic ass kicking from the Russians. Even more epic than the Georgians received. Ukrainians were being encircled and annihilated in strategic cauldrons with such regularity in the summer of 2014, that they needed Merkel and Hollande to hastily convene a mediation session that resulted in the humiliating Minsk Accords. If it wasn't for Mommy Merkel and Papa Hollande, the Donbass separatists would be in Kiev long ago.

Mind you, that epic ass kicking from the Russians was delivered in such a way that still no one is able to provide conclusive evidence of the presence of regular Russian military formations in east Ukraine. In other words, a few hundred Russians managed to wreck a Ukrainian army that is, on paper at least, many times the strength of Poland's.

News / Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland? [281]


If you are referring to U.S. sanctions, then these are mainly tied to the annexation of Crimea and alleged meddling in the 2016 US elections. There is no language there about removal of Russian troops from east Ukraine.

The European sanctions package, on the other hand, is to a greater extent tied to the fulfillment of the different clauses of Minsk 2, but also doesn't mention removal of Russian troops, but rather things like allowing Ukraine to regain full control of the Russian-Ukrainian border in that part of the country.

So I'm not sure what your accusations are about. Looks like you're the only stupid one here. Read the news.

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]

Everything was already settled with the Potsdam Agreement, I don't know why people even bother going to 1953.

loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000003-1207.pdf

Section III of the above-linked protocol of proceedings approved on August 2, 1945 at the Berlin (Potsdam) Conference, titled "Reparations from Germany", begins by addressing the very subject of this thread:

"1. Reparation claims of the U.S.S.R. shall be met by removals from the zone of Germany occuppied by the U.S.S.R., and from appropriate German external assets.

2. The U.S.S.R. undertakes to settle the reparation claims of Poland from its own share of reparations."

Later, the Soviet occupied portion of Germany became the GDR, which officially announced a status of non-succession. However, this did not prevent the USSR and Poland from extracting further reparations from the GDR between 1949 and 1953. On August 22nd, Moscow announced it was waiving its claims to any further reparations from the GDR, and on the next day Warsaw did the same.

Finally, in 1990 the Final Settlement was signed, where the FRG accepted upon itself the obligations of the former GDR, and the next year Germany and Poland signed their own agreement. Case closed.

Though the agreements of 1945 should be enough to make this a mute discussion, the agreements from 1953, 1990, and 1991 surely seal this matter.

For those interested there is a whole book on the matter of state succession to international responsibility that also specifically discusses Polish reparations as a case study:

books.google.com/books/about/State_Succession_to_International_Respon.html?id=52kd9sU-Pf4C

Unfortunately it is a limited preview and the full book is $250

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]

Just wanted to add to my previous post, by saying that it would be pretty ironic if Poland brought a non-succession argument to international courts to void the previous agreements (a odious debt-type argument, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt) after completely ignoring the GDR's identical argument in 1949 in relation to the Third Reich.

@Tacitus

That's great regarding the library access. I miss mine so much... Make use of it!

The good news for the non-students, is that it seems the free preview shows the Polish-related pages. I'll try to link it here:

books.google.com/books?id=P-mwCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=poland+gdr+reparations&source=bl&ots=RxFtoThIsI&sig=qiCvL73alyifUCrfjFZtH8C9cI8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUjcmTvevVAhUCmoMKHRHkA1IQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=poland%20gdr%20reparations&f=false

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Poland was only ever able to make claims from the GDR, because that is what the Soviet government agreed to at the Potsdam Conference. Seeing as the Soviets were the ones supposed to be cashing out the Poles, then the GDR is the only one that could pay, and you forgave them in 1953!

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]

Small correction to above. It's not just the GDR strictly speaking that paid.

The U.S.S.R. was entitled to reparations from it's zone of control, and relevant German external assets... but also:



This doesn't change much however. Because lower in that same section it says:


The countries specified were Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, Rumania, and Eastern Austria.

And finally, lets not forget who pays Poland:


loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000003-1207.pdf

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Sure it deals in theory. It also takes a broad survey of available precedent. The verdict is that non-succession arguments very rarely win. In 9 cases out of 10 they fail. Not a single state has succeeded.

Also, Poland enjoys the benefits of many other treaties signed by the Polish-People's Republic. You can't pick and choose which ones you honor.

In the end, international courts will look very, very, very sceptically at any such claims, if at all.


Dude... the Potsdam Agreement is THE agreement to look at when talking about Polish reparations from Germany. It is the agreement signed by the three most powerful of the victorious countries at the conclusion of a great war. What else can there be?

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Ugh... Again not true.

The free preview provided by Google Books and linked above, actually has very good citations. For the portion concerning Poland's August 23rd waiving of further reparations the footnote says the following (footnote # 493, p. 166):

"Declaration of the Polish People's Republic, in: 9 Zbior Documentow, 1953, no. 9, at p. 1830, quoted in: 49 BVerfG 169. The relevant quote from the binding declaration reads as follows: "In consideration of the fact that Germany has already complied to a significant extent with its obligation to pay reparations and the fact that the improvements of the economic situation of Germany lies in the interests of its peaceful development, the government of the People's Republic of Poland has resolved, effective January 1, 1954, to waive the reparation payments to Poland, in order to hereby make a further contribution to the resolution of the German question in the spirit of democracy and peace in accordance with the interests of the Polish and all peace-loving people".

There are further bibliographical citations in that same footnote.

Edit: Funny thing, the 1953 language doesn't say GDR anywhere, but instead "Germany"

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Not sure what you mean here. Germany is in fact an inheritor of the Third Reich. Russia is the legal successor to the Soviet Union (keeping all its assets abroad, e.g. embassies, military bases, and the veto-holding membership in the security council. There is nothing unusual in succession. What is unusual is non-succession when it comes to any kind of serious liability. It nearly always fails.

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Have to admit I don't understand much of this.

You are correct in saying that the FRG did not become a successor state post-reunification (rather it is still the same, yet enlarged, entity), and this is because the reunification was done under Article 23 of the Basic Law, rather than under Article 146 which was briefly discussed initially (would imply having a new all-German constitution voted into effect by a unified nation).

For the longest time it wasn't clear how unification under Article 23 would work in practice. In theory it allowed for it.

According to Wikipedia (apologies), the unamended Article 23 of the Basic Law:
"provided other de jure German states, initially not included in the field of application of the Basic Law, with the right to declare their accession (Beitritt) at a later date. Therefore, although the Basic Law was considered provisional, it allowed more parts of Germany to join its field of application."

This was great because it was not coercion (forbidden for all time for Germany's past sins), but rather the free expression/self determination of a sovereign people. At the same time, it also meant that those joining would have to subscribe to all existing FRG laws. But the really important part here, actually, was the part concerning "other de jure states". Where does this list of other de jure states that are eligible for accession come from? Why from the FRG maintaining continuity with the German Reich (not to be confused with Third Reich, included under German Reich). But what ended up happening, in the event, is that the GDR joined in a weird hybrid fashion where it initiated accession under Article 23, but then joined constitutionally through a treaty (Reunification Treaty) that recognized it as a sovereign state. One of the implications of the amended Article 23 under which the GDR joined, was that the previous ties by which FRG constitutional courts timed themselves to the German Reich were void. Why? Because the amended and immediately extinct Article 23, said that no one else could ever join, regardless of them belonging to the German Reich at some point or not. That's all. It does not mean that Germany is not a successor state. German leaders still go around the world apologizing for Nazi crimes and paying the reparations bills, which is de facto all that matters really.

This is all really a juridical debate, that has no bearing on practical German foreign policy which maintains that it is a successor state.

History / Time for Slavic Commonwealth around Poland as center [160]


This part of the statement one can agree with :) At least recently.

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Lol, what a twist!

News / Stateless ex-President of Georgia and ex-governor of Odessa is in Poland [8]


Perhaps it is a signal of displeasure intended for Kiev.

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


He's pulling out a classic page from the Soviet propaganda playbook called "Whataboutism".

In this case, Ironside means that if one holds to be true the maxime that present day people cannot be held responsible for the crimes of their great-grandfathers, then the policy of affirmative action admissions to United States colleges is also an invalid one. By this logic present-day white children should not be denied placement to educational institutions in favor of lower-achieving minorities, just because their granddads' benefited from slavery more than 150 years ago.

It was a complete shot in the dark for Ironside, however. Not sure what his point was, bringing this up in this debate about German reparations to Poland. I guess he just can't pass on an opportunity to take a potshot at a "snowflake" liberal.

History / For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars? [299]


Russians wrote the book on subject-changing.

US propaganda aimed at Soviet citizens: While your country sends rockets into space, it is unable to provide you with basic living necessities!

Soviet reply: Freedom to Angela Davis!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [957]


Poles would massively come to Serbia after the collapse of the EU?

I can't imagine why Serbia would want that.