The Pole, as an example of a perfect Russophobe, in a spherical vacuum

Read a joking entry in the Russian alt-wiki lurkmore.to about Poles and Poland. One of the the things that had me laughing out loud, was a section which dealt with Polish Russophobia (everything is written from a Russian perspective). Paraphrasing, it said that if there was a way to measure Russophobia on a scale between 0 and 1 (more is stronger), then Poland would act as the gold standard of measurements with a value of "1", against which all other Russophobias are measured. Specifically, it states that a Western Ukrainian nationalist, who waking up masturbates to a portrait of Stepan Bandera, and garnishes his salo with Katsap blood, can only approach a Russophobe value of 0.99, with the Polish level still being beyond his reach.

The question then, is do you agree? Can a Pole theoretically hate a Russian more than a Ukrainian? Is this even possible?

Did you see it with your own eyes???

Here, thanks to me, the Russophobe value is 0.95. I can't perform miracles so I am just doing my very best to drag it down.

With Poles and Germans having a lovefest, that task should be a lot easier but it's not.

@pawian


Fortunately/unfortunately - one has not witnessed such a thing personally. But it's hard to say what happens behind closed doors.

Do you mean you give reigns to your imagination and see such scenes in your mind`s eye?

I read the article on Lurkmore.to

Here's a link for others interested: lurkmore.to/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%BA%D0%B8

I don't think Poles get an unfair treatment, all things being said. The article is written much more respectfully than those for some other nationalities. Specifically it treats honestly the periods when Poland was "on top", and acknowledges the fact of Poland's more ancient provenance - and this surprised me. Poland's relative geographic misfortune is also given a decent treatment. All in all, I think the article actually reveals some things about Russian attitudes towards Poland, which I was not aware of. In the same way that Poles are dismissive of all things Russian, I assumed it would be the same in the other direction. Instead, there seems to be a grudging respect to the "number 2" country in the Slavic world, with allowances for the fact that it was not always number 2. Very surprised!

Edit:

Response to Pawian: To my own regret - yes - I did imagine this scene in my mind. It made me laugh even harder.

Really? Where did you get this one from? I suppose you are simply biased against Poles. Before I elaborate more on it, I think I will give you a chance to correct that statement with a few proofs. :):)


Imagining sb who masturbates to a portrait of a political leader proves that you are not a normal person. :):) Sorry for being so frank but why should I hide my real thoughts??? :):)

Seriously? I don't think you have to be biased against Poles to be able to state that they are generally dismissive of all things Russian. This is true across the political spectrum. You don't have to look for a Smolensk-conspiracy nut to find a Russophobe. This forum is good proof, that the perception of Russia is of a country that has zero to offer the world except oil and gas, political assassinations, and nuclear sabre rattling. The general sentiment is that Europe would do quite well if Russia just disappeared off the map.

If you're talking about individuals then any individual can hate another.

IME Polish people don't trust the Russian state (no matter what form it takes at any given moment with the Tsar, the CCCP, Banditwarland or Putinostan) and it's hard to argue that close association with Russia has ever been good for Polish people or the Polish state.

But there are individual Russians who live in Poland are are quite okay with it.

The general truth with Russia is, that with very, very, very few exceptions the more and closer connections a country has had with the Russian state.... the wider and deeper anti-Russian political sentiment.

I don't think most Russians really want to think about why that might be...

So you are forcing me to say you are lying now. I can easily prove it to you. But I thought you would do it on your own to avoid the embarassment of being called a liar. :):)


hahaha Don`t be funny. A forum half of which is manned with foreigners or expat Poles as a vox populi???
But even here we are able to appreciate the undeniable Russian contribution into world`s culture. We already talked about it many times here.


Another false suggestion. Ask Germans, Austrians or Italians about it. :):

In result, I have to dismiss everything what you wrote as bollocks. Sorry.

PS. I smell the rat - you intentionally write stupidities coz you are hungry for compliments for Russia - after critisizing Poles for their alleged Russophobia, you expect a denial and elaborate explanations and eventually positive asessment. Complex of inferiority on your part??? hahaha

A knee-jerk defensive reaction, after the trauma of partitions, uprisings and 45 years of forced "friendship". The reaction towards Russian state is quite understandable.

When it comes to attitude towards Russian people, you won't see much hostility or dismissiveness. Russian people are indeed Slavic, like we are, but they belong to a different civilisation (Byzantine with elements of Turanic, in contrast to Latin civilisation in Poland), so we are simply closer socially and culturally not only to Czechs or Slovaks (obviously) but also to Italians or the French - the same civilisation. So, what you see as dismissiveness is simply a realistic reception of a nation that is culturally, socially and politically very different from ours.

Mafketis is also quite right in his remarks about countries that tasted Russian "friendship" and don't really want to have anything more to do with the Russian state. It's not dismisiveness or hostility, but merely a political realism acquired during the long history of mutual contacts.

Surely, there is much to be admired about Russia - beautiful nature, great literature, brave and resilient people to name just a few things. But we prefer to admire these things from a safe distance.

Yes, very well said, Kania. I couldn`t say it better than you. :) Good you have come back. :):)

Thanks, Pawian. Just saying it like it is. :)

Yes, I know. Bobko is playing his inferiority complex game with us. I tried to induce him to think more deeply about the issue but he refused to.

Bobko, check it out - a few times a year I can see advertisements of two or three big Russian ballet companies performing in Poland.

Słupsk - a medium sized city in Poland - less than 100.000 population.

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There is also a cabaret in Słupsk (DKD) who sing love songs in Russian because they claim that's the best language to sing about love. :)

Interesting. I know and love Alosza Avdiejew `s songs - either very amusing or deep. He is a polonised Russian.

Life goes like an arrow

youtu.be/uCDdiVW2VVA

Alosha is a legend! :) I like it when he mixes Polish and Russian in his songs...

youtu.be/a2MA1PG24U4

Yes, it is much funnier than pure Polish or Russian.

What the hell man? I like that you think it's insulting to accuse Poles of Russophobia (I agree). However, I gave Poland more compliments than I did to Russia, and the purpose of my post was to show that there is in fact grudging respect. I didn't expect this, and was remarking on it. The original question was a joke to begin with - essentially are Polish people the ones that have the worst opinion of Russians amongst all the peoples of the world? I do think that the answer to this is affirmative. It's a curious fact, when you consider that there is an active Russian military presence in Ukraine, a frozen conflict in Moldova, similar issues in Georgia, etc, etc. I haven't recently checked opinion polls, but I remember that despite those issues sentiment regarding Russia remains split in those countries, while Poland is pretty monolithically anti-Russian.

Much like accusing Poles of (lingering) Germanophobia, isn't it? Heck, their bigger, expansionist, mega-richer, bullying neighbor to the west maligns, marrauders, and murders her citizens, and now it's kumbaya time at the ol' hacienda? Polish Russophobia's imminently understandable, if for different reasons-:)

And telling the Russians that they are seen in Poland as an enemy in perpetuity is helping Poles how? Poland should do everything that comes naturally to make this relationship as normal as humanly possible without being as fake as it is with Germany.

How about sending a delegation to their May 9 parades? What would be the downside?

Of course it wasn`t insulting. It was simply a false opinion (now I see it was intentionally false on your part) and I gave you a chance to correct your blunder. But I didn`t feel insulted. :):)


And to achieve a bigger contrast, you accused Poles of rejecting "all things Russian." Yes, as I said earlier, it was intentional manipulation.
You know it is a very infantile way of discussing issues. :):)


Still craving for denial to heal your inferiority complex? hahaha Sorry, I refuse to participate in this game. Maybe another day....... :):):)

Polish ceremonial units used to take part in those parades, and were always received gladly. It ended, though, after the Kremlin annexation of Crimea.

The downside would be giving a sign that you approve of the annexation.

Now I know where the dumb Polak line came from.
If Poland feels so strongly about a peaceful and supervised referendum, why not close the Polish embassy in Moscow and stop all trade with Russia. That will teach them...

Again, you are either lying on purpose or only showing your utter ignorance about past events. I don`t know which one you are doing now coz you are notorious for both in this forum.

So, to inform other members who might be reading this thread, I can tell them that before the rigged referendum took place, there had been a military invasion of Crimea by the Kremlin forces.

On 27 February, masked Russian troops without insignia took over the Supreme Council (parliament) of Crimea and captured strategic sites across Crimea, which led to the installation of the pro-Russian Sergey Aksyonov government in Crimea,

And they did all of that because they had too much vodka, and not because NATO warmongering scum was getting closer to Russia and threaten Russia's access to the base. And those strange events in Ukraine...Bad Russians...How dare you do something good for Russia. You should file a suit in the Hague and wait 65 years for the verdict.

I notice the words 'clean' and 'open' and 'free' were not used....

IF a Russophobe means being aware that the Russian state is up to no good and ready if an opportune moment arise to harm Poland (or any other state)then that perosn with a such mindset shouldn't not be called a Russophobe but a realist instead.

If someone mistake realism for some phobia it means that person has a problem with accepting reality or is a just a moron.

That's like quoting myself.

It will take many generations to get Katyn out of Polish DNA.

It is not such a banality, believe me. Don`t treat it so lightly - you should also consider it a terrible loss coz 10% of the executed officers were of Jewish background.

However, we mustn`t forget that Katyń is a burial site of Russian nationals, too. Apart from Polish officers, the mass graves in Katyń contain the remains of 3 thousands Soviet citizens who were murdered by NKWD during stalinist purges. Most of them were Russians

Interesting article about Russian families who are grateful to Poles for their struggle for truth coz in result they were also able to learn about the fate of their relatives executed in Katyń.

wyborcza.pl/7,75399,8188165,katyn-rosyjski-jak-katyn-polski.html