History / The story about German- Polish reconciliation [194]

Did you know that Kurt Schumacher, the first opposition leader of the Federal Republic of Germany was a huge friend of the Polish people?

As leader of the Social Democrats (SPD) he was the opponent of Konrad Adenauer, the Christian Conservative (CDU) first chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany.

Born in the Kuyavian-Pomeranian city Chełmno, in German times called "Kulm in Westpreußen", a city that had two thirds Polish an one third German inhabitants around 1900, most of his classmates and later friends were Poles. Like most members of the German minority in Chelmno his family lived there for centuries alongside the Polish citizens. One of his closest friends was Franciszek Raszeja, who later became a well known Polish Professor for medizine [wiki] and got killed by the Nazis in 1942 while he tried to save the life of a Jew. Their friendship even went so far that Raszeja introduced him to the forbidden Polish Philomath Society where Schumacher spent a lot of time discussing with Polish students about politics. Schumacher learned Polish from his friends and spoke it fluently.

As a convinced Social Democrat the Nazis send him to various concentration camps Schumacher only survived as a very sick man. Nevertheless after the war he succeded in the re-establishment of the Social Democratic Party of Germany. His strict anti-communism saved the Social Democrats of West Germany to become instrumentalized by East German communists.

Due to lack of communication between communist Poland and West Germany in the late 1940s and early 1950s he could not regain contacts to those of this Polish friends that survived WWII, which he always lamented about. As a sick man he died in 1952.

History / Questions about Polish borders, Galicia and Cossacks. [50]


This may be right, but you can be sure you'll also find many Germans and Poles that respected each other and intermarried.
There are no special relations between Ukrainians and Germans, despite the fact that the Klitschko brothers started their international boxing career in Germany and are still very popular there. ;-)


Right! But what does this prove? Because of the fact that Ukraine is a new nation it does not have as many rights as old nations like Poland and Germany, or what?


So is Leipzig, Dresden, Rostock, Chemnitz, Potsdam, Cottbus, Görlitz, Schwerin, Stralsund, Frankfurt/Oder and Lübeck. Other German cities like Cologne, Ratisbone, Mainz and Koblenz were founded by Romans and Kassel was founded by Celts. Do you think these cities are less German than Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg - cities that were founded by Germanic tribes?

This is backward 19th century thinking. To say the old Germanics that lived in central Europe are the exclusive ancestors of the Germans while the West Slavs that moved there in the 5th century are the exclusive ancenstors of Poles, is nationalisic propaganda, because all of them are the ancestors of all of us.

The Germans are a mixed race, the same as Poles, French, Brits or Ukrainians. The only difference is in Poland a Slavic language remained dominant and formed the Polish language while in Germany Germanic dialects remained dominant and formed a Germanic based language.

Therefore it is futile and useless to argue who was there first.

Language / Polish language would look better written in Cyrillic Script? [212]


But this is an important point! In 1912, a hundred years ago, all written german looked like that:

Ironically it was the Nazis that promoted Latin letters during WWII because they ridiculously found the "gebrochene Schrift" Jewish by origin. Nevertheless I think it was to the advantage that German speakers adopted the Latin Antiqua letters that most of the other European languages have, too. Admittedly Gothic or Fraktur letters are much closer to the Latin alphabet - actually it's just a side alphabet of Antiqua - than cyrillic letters are to Latin.

It' a nice pastime to look what Polish would look like written in Cyrillic letters. Even German would fit perfectly into the Cyrillic alphabet. Just a few extra letters needed to be found and everything would work well.

But which government would spend billions of Euros or Zlotys to change the alphabet? It would also deprive future generations from their past. Modern Turks need to learn the Arab script first - which takes a couple of months to be fluent - until they are able to read Turkish texts written before 1924.

Language / Polish language would look better written in Cyrillic Script? [212]


Actually old Anglo Saxons used the "Futhork" or Runic Alphabet before they got christianized in the 8th century, like all other Germanic tribes also did.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dalrunor.svg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes

Surely before the got baptized all West Germanic people didn't have much to write, therefore the old runic alphabet did not make much impact of the culture of present nations that speak a Germanic language.

The Latin based Antiqua script for me is the joining element of the Occident or Western World and I am happy to use it.

Imagine what huge problems we all had if every nation had its own script. I once got lost in a big city in Northern Thailand,nobody spoke English there and I wasn't even able to write down the name of my place to stay because I couldn't decipher Thai letters and they couldn't read Latin script.

History / Polish perspective of WW1: Germany, their Defeat & the Legend of the Stab in the Back [17]

Pawian, You know the history of Polands western neighbour well! ;-)


Marcin,

The Imperial German Supreme Army Command [Oberste Heeresleitung (OHL)] considered the war unwinable in November 1918. As Pawian pointed out all German war efforts at the Western Front in 1918 failed. The Americans managed to transport hundreds of thousands fresh soldiers to the front. Besides that hunger revolutions among German civilians in several major cities broke out and several mutinies in the Army began to emerge, the most well-known example for instance was the Kiel mutiny that developed rapidly in the November Revolution of 1918:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_mutiny

So it was the OHL with Hindenburg and Ludendorff that convinced Kaiser Wilhelm to surrender to the Western allies because they felt like they were sitting on a steam boiler that is going to explode soon. The same Ludendorff is one of the investors of the "Stab in the back" theory, by the way.

I never heard about Germans seeking an alliance with Mexico in 1918. Do you have any quotations for that? If this is true the Mexicans were wise not to follow such a trail because the Americans would have made minced meat out of them.

History / Polish perspective of WW1: Germany, their Defeat & the Legend of the Stab in the Back [17]

The disturbing fact is that German antisemites from the far right blamed German Jews to have contributed to German defeat, besides the fact that 100.000 German Jews fought for the German Empire, 12.000 of them died in action and an above average part of them - in comparison with Christian Germans - received various decorations for bravery like the Iron Cross.

History / Polish perspective of WW1: Germany, their Defeat & the Legend of the Stab in the Back [17]


Interesting! I really didn't know that. Thanks for helping to close this gap in education.

History / Polish perspective of WW1: Germany, their Defeat & the Legend of the Stab in the Back [17]


That's what we learned in West Germany, too.

Life / West-East life in Poland? [35]

Great picture, Palivec, Haven't seen the borders of Germany from a hundred years ago for quite a while. ;-) .

Life / West-East life in Poland? [35]


Thanks for uploding this interesting article. Seems to make perfect sense.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [396]


And who should live there?

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [396]


Who the hell are "ethnic Prussians"? The Old Prussian language got extint in the 1600s and was replaced by the German dialects "Low and High Prussian" and all of them - decendants of "Old Prussians", decendants of German and Dutch/Flemish immigrants, Germanized Slavs, Polish speaking Mazurians and the remainder of Lithuanian speaking "Preußisch Litthauer" - got kicked out of their country or got killed in 1945.

It's not that I like that! I am not a friend of ethnic cleansing, and as a German patriot I don't take masochistic pleasure from the fact that so much territory that was German speaking for centuries is lost. But if you look what happened in that area during WWII one has to admit it was the logic ending of Germany's attempt to create a Greater German Empire on the cost of all of its neighbours.

If you really are an Englishman, which I doubt because your English reads like you never spoke to a native speaker before, I appreciate your feelings for our countrymen that lived East of Oder-Neisse before 1945. They had to pay the price for Nazi Germany's crimes which is sad and unfair, but most of them are dead now. And most of their decendants adopted the local culture and styles of their new homes, therefore they are no longer existent.

If a decendant of a German Silesian, Pomeranian or Prussian should feel homesick he or she can move to Poland. I really mean it! Many people still haven't understood that the border is open now. All he/she needs to do is looking for a home and a job, learning Polish probably would help, and then he can move to Gdansk or Wroclaw.

Or do you honestly mean that the Poles that live in the former German territories for over 67 years now would leave their homes in order to move the Kresy territories? This is so far from reality that I don't want to get into that discussion.

History / The story about German- Polish reconciliation [194]


When I was a kid in Bavaria/West Germany, around 1980, we played "Americans against Russians", and nobody from us wanted to be the Russian.

Funny that we never thought about being German soldiers fighting for Germany. Although we still were too young to care about history and politics we already learned that there is something very odd about German soldiers.

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]


Modern Brits only share their name with "native Britons".

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]


My point is that the example you chose does not make any sense at all!

First of all the Romans did not slaughter the "Old Britons", unlike Ceasar and his invasion army did with the Gauls in modern day France. In fact the Celtic culture flourished big time in Britain during Roman rule.

Secondly modern day Brits consist of Germanic immigrants for the most part, because the larger part of the Celtic "Old Britons" was slaughtered by Germanic Anglo-Saxons in the 5th and 6th century. Therefore modern Brits do not really care about what Romans did in Britain around Anno Domini.

What is a Brit anyway? It would make more sense to write about the English (almost purely Germanic by origin) and Scots and Welshmen (partly Celtic and partly Germanic by origin).


Agreed. There is no personal guilt that can be inherited! As a German I am pretty happy about the fact there is no vendetta or blood revenge in Europe, otherwise me and my countrymen would have a huge problem now I guess. But there is a moral responsibility for crimes committed by your ancestors that remains, at least this is my point of view!

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]


So the English, Scots and Welshmen don't have any problems integrating in other English speaking Anglo-Saxon cultures?
Wow! What an accomplishment!
Seems to me that finally I met the true masters of adaption, adjustment and conversion.

But you do know that Great Britain was the archenemy of the United States until the late 1800s?

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]

Don't be so whiny Hudson! I just attacked you because you seem to be fond of dubios comparisons.

First you were mixing up modern with ancient Brits, then you blamed the Romans for a genocide against the Celts committed by Anglo-Saxons 400 years later.

Then you compare the immigration of English speaking people in other English speaking countries with people that are confronted with a language barrier.

Millions of Poles moved to Germany within the last three centuries and most of them became loyal Germans after some time or they returned to Poland.

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]


True, but it also needs to be said that the American New England states pushed all of its inhabitants that remained loyal to the British crown out of the country 200 years ago - most of them moved to "British North America" aka. "Canada".

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]

Sure! Agreed!

History / The story about German- Polish reconciliation [194]


Not to forget Latin.

History / The story about German- Polish reconciliation [194]


What a sad reason to learn German. Did you learn phrases like these ones:

History / The story about German- Polish reconciliation [194]

Very important remark.

I remember when I went to the US for the first time with my parents in 1980, we seriously discussed beforehand that WWIII could break out and we would have had to stay with our American relatives in that case.

In our village we had a siren that was tested twice a year with different alarm signals for nuclear assault, assault with chemical or biological weapons, invasion of Soviet and East German ground forces and conventional airstrike. All bridges had attachments for bursters.

I remember one night I woke up because our house was shaking because hundreds of American tanks dashed through our village. The next day we found our neighbour's squished cat on the street. For more than one time I almost shitted my pants because strafers with an altitude of not more than 250 meters were flying over our playground. They were so fast you couldn't see them, only hear their incredibly loud noise.

As Central Europeans we can be more than happy those times are over!

History / What do Poles owe to Czechs? [72]


Are you sure about that?

The Soviets payed the highest death toll in WW2, that's for sure, but don't forget with or without Soviet help the USA would have developed the atom bomb anyway!

The bomb was ready in August 1945 and hadn't the war with Germany be over for three months already, the Americans would have dropped the bomb over Mannheim. And then they could have dropped another bomb over Dresden, then over Wiesbaden and other still undestroyed German cities and the war would have been over soon!

History / What do Poles owe to Czechs? [72]

This wouldn't have slowed down the Manhattan Project (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project). If the Americans had feared to lose the war they probably would have spent even more money and resources for their atom bomb program and it could have been ready earlier.

And with only three or four dropped atom bombs the war would have been over. The impact on moral would have been so devestating even the unscrupulous Nazis leaders couldn't have continued the war for much longer. No Nazi propaganda would have taken away the fear of such a deadly weapon.

It only took two atom bombs until the Japanese government surrended to the USA unconditionally, and there was not one American ground force soldier on Japanese soil.

Of course it would have been a terrible slaughter of German civillians but what is better? Up to 500.000 dead German civillians in a couple of German medium-cized cities? Or millions of tortured, mistreated, raped and starved to death civillians that fell into the hand of the Soviets as happened in the German east in 1945? I know this is a cynical question but I confess I am not sure myself what would have been the better alternative.

Fact is under American patronage West Germany in 1955, only ten years after the war, was a progressing and optimistic country, while in East Germany people still lived on food stamps.

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]

Poland did not necessarily chose to fight, but German troops attacked Poland on September 1st 1939, from the North (East Prussia), the West (Germany proper) and the South (Slovakia) so Poles did not have an alternative but to try to defend themselves.

When Nazi Germany absorbed the "Rest-Tschechei" in March 1939 Czechoslovak President Hácha was in Berlin a couple of days before the German invasion and tried to negotiate with Hitler. So he really had a chance to decide whether to go for war a not. Since he knew other European countries would not support the Czech state it was wise not to resist the Nazi invasion because it would have been futile.

This is a privilege the Poles did not have. But as far as I know the Poles they would have never accepted the destruction of their country without a war anyway.

Regarding the losses of Czechoslovak population you forgot to substract the more than 3 million German speaking Bohemians and Moravians that were driven out of their country or killed after May 1945. Since the Munich agreement was declared null and void they were proper Czechoslovak citizens and should be treated as such.

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]

May father's family is from Weiden/Oberpfalz in Eastern Bavaria, only 30 kilometers from the Bohemian/Czech border. We just were there last weekend and took the opportunity to make a one day trip to Mariánské Lázně (Marienbad) and some neighbouring villages. It is striking how deserted many villages in the Czech borderland still appear. Many houses looked like they were empty since 1945.

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]

When I was in Poland in 2010 we were driving through some villages in Western Pomerania. I notized that practically every house was rearranged. A former window was made a door while the original door was bricked up. The original external wall was amended and stuff like that.

I guess this is what a person has to do in order to acquire a new home emotionally, when you were transplanted there against your will.


The German battleship Schleswig-Holstein started to fire at Westerplatte and German airforce assaulted the city Wieluń in the middle of the night without a formal decleration of war. What is there to negiotiate in such a case?


This was just whistling in the dark. Don't you think?

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]

No Harry, you are wrong! I read a lot about that. Problem is after the devour of Czechoslovakia Hitler was determined to destroy Poland. Since he knew the Poles were too proud and too stubborn to give up Danzig he ignited some propaganda smoke grenades for the international media in the form of "We only want free access to East Prussia and self-determination for the inhabitants of Danzig", because he hoped somehow this would give reason to lay the blame for the beginning of WW2 on the doorsteps of Poland.

It's not that the Poles did everything right before WW2, but this does not change the fact that Hitler wanted to go to war to Poland. There are plenty of documents that prove that Hitler was determined to go to war with Poland in 1939. Do you speak any German? I could send you some links in German language.

Or you should read again the discussion from February and March we all had this year regarding Gdansk/Danzig: Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]


This is correct. But Poland had the right to represent the Free City of Danzig in foreign affairs, additionally Poland's army had the right to build facilities on the Westerplatte and there was a Polish post office within Danzig's city limits.

History / Czech and Polish character in World War two [81]


What do you mean by that, Iron?