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Posts by GabiDaHun  

Joined: 18 Jan 2012 / Female ♀
Last Post: 22 Dec 2013
Threads: 2
Posts: 152
From: Krakow
Speaks Polish?: No :(

Displayed posts: 154 / page 4 of 6
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GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I wasn't attacking you, was attacking your opinion.

It doesn't make it any less "charming" to be honest. And it's still dictating your personal morality onto others private lives. And I still don't understand why people get off on it...

how some people have problems with people being killed in a war but don't have any problems with killing newborns.

No one's talked about killing newborns. Where? Show me?

@polonius
Careful. You're starting to sound like a misogynist.

What would you class as "leg-spreading", and does it count for men too?
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Now, do you seriously believe, I get off on discussing killing of newborns?

I didn't say that. You said:

What I don't understand is how some people have problems with people being killed in a war but don't have any problems with killing newborns.

I'm simply asking who doesn't have a problem with killing newborns? Who has said such a thing?

In which case, of course you're going to be pro-abortion.

That's utter rubbish. What kind of a crappy term is pro-abortion anyway? I've said numerous times morality is not a black and white issue of "good" or "bad", "pro" or "anti". What I've said is that morality or "good and bad" "pro and anti" is incredibly difficult to legislate, and there is a morality issue in legislating (or forcing) unprovable moral opinions on another. Is this another of those emotive like "killing babies"? Pro abortion makes me sound like I want every woman to go out and have abortions. I don't, and I'm not going to box myself into any framework of thought by giving myself labels, if you wish to categorise the world, then you do that, but be aware; I'm an individual whom a label might not fit. I've already said that I want people to use contraception, the abortion procedure is (as it should be) a safety net.

What you don't like about my comments, really, is that *I have said pregnancy and children are good things*, and you think they are bad

Oh my God! Where do you infer this stuff from? I've made clear already in the thread that pregnancy and childbirth are personal and individual experiences, I don't think pregnancy and children are bad. I think pregnancy and children FOR ME would be bad, and by that logic, out of the 6 billion people on the planet, it's not unfesable that some think the same way as I do.. There is a difference, can you see it?

I think I am starting to see how your logic works.

You say:
Pregnancy and children were good for me ---------------------------------------------------------> therefore pregnancy and children are good things for everyone... so I will legislate it, no one must have an abortion.

You *think* I say:
Pregnancy and children are bad for me-------------------------------------------------------------->there fore children and pregnancy are bad things....... so I will legislate is and everyone must have an abortion.

What I actually say is:
Pregnancy and children are bad for me, but they are good for you --------------------------->therefore you do what you want, and I do what I want. Personal choice is personal. I don't force my wishes on to you, and vice versa.

make sure your personal choice is just for you.

I don't think you understand or respect that. If you did understand or respect my personal choice to fly off to the UK (with British citizenship), you'd also respect the personal choices of women,(young, poor or otherwise) of Poland, who do not have the option or the money, and are effectively having once form of morality forced upon them, who are made to go though pregnancy and labour (against their wishes - because we're talking about one group here), and are then given a choice of a) look after the child or b)stick it in an orphanage.

Poland has 80,000 children in orphanages - the highest in central Europe, housed in about 350 orphanages. With limited staff, the amount of attention these kids receive must be close to zero.

activechildaid.org/statistics

How many of you people pay frequent visits to the local orphanage?

I asked this on page one. There still hasn't been an answer.

If I got a woman pregnant I would intend on taking care of the child.

I am grateful that you would take on the child, and for some women you are right, the child and responsibility is the issue, in which case, more men should be as you are. There are far too many man that do a runner. However, for some women the issue around the whole "pregnancy thing" is the pregnancy itself, rather than the child or the responsibility.

If you got a girl unwillingly pregnant, and you wanted the child to look after the child, but for her pregnancy was the issue, would you also be willing to go through hormone replacement treatment for 9 months, have your body slowly contorted, and at the end of that 9 months have one of your orifices expanded to the size of a saucer and have a watermelon pushed through it? In solidarity obviously. Because if being pregnant is to be an issue for someone, I don't see how anyone would be willing to force the mechanics of it on anyone.

From what I've read of Gabi's posts, she seems very level headed and well-reasoned in how she's presented her opinions.

Thanks. I'm happy for you being here. I feel like I'm blowing against a sandstorm, putting up with all this speculation, and inferring is quite irritating. Thankfully, I realise that my opinion, whilst seeming to be a minority on these message boards it isn't that isn't that of the minority in Europe.

Just for balance.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Yes, Spain changed its law in 2010. think it costs more than 50 Euros, because EU health insurance is only limited to emergencies, and it's not seen as an emergency procedure. I'm not sure.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I'm rejecting their right to kill. It's not about these people themselves, it's about people they carry inside.

It doesn't suit me better. It's just more of the same boring, groundless emotive language - it's kind of dull now.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

You're supporting killing of newborns to be and I'm trying to defend their right to live and you call it groundless.

Your emotive language is groundless, yes, because as I said, for the 3rd time, over 70% of fertilised embryos are naturally rejected by the womb, so not everything is going to a "newborn to be". How can you kill something that you cannot prove was alive in the first place?
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

As long as your heart is beating you're alive, right?

if I'm on a life support machine and the EEG of my brain is negative I'm not. My heart would still be beating, but I'd be dead.

But the point you really, really miss is that nobody is telling anybody what do to here, but this ISN'T just about the woman who

I'm sorry, but once again, the thing growing inside a woman is personal to a woman. Some women give the foetus personhood from the moment of conception, and others don't. It's not up to you who gets to decide what a pregnancy is for an individual woman, and if it is a child or not.

I'm not bleating. I'm not a sheep in some far away field. I talk and think like a rational person, so stop dehumanising me - I don't think you even realise that you do it.

I'm really sorry about what you went though. How horrible for you. There are definite issues, as I have already said surrounding the mental health of women and abortion, and personally I think more research needs to be done on this issue, some kind of psychological analysis by professionals, not just a check list/tick box from a GP. Clearly, you had given your foetus personhood from the start of your pregnancy, and it's terrible for you that this wasn't picked up on, or taken more seriously by the so-called professionals whose care you were in. Its also terrible that you had been coerced into your termination. This should be illegal, and there needs to be rigorous checking by unbiased medical professionals to ensure that a woman makes a decision independently of others. If a woman becomes pregnant, the support network needs to be there for the abortion procedure to really be the final safety net.

However, as tragic as your experience is, your experience does not equate to the experience of other women. I've already given you the links to the university research papers, which do show, contrary to your experience, that the majority do not regret their decision - these are papers which discuss the experience of thousands of women, not just yours. Whether you choose to acknowledge them or not is up to you, but by denying them, you are denying the very real experiences of other women.

You seem to be projecting your very personal, and very tragic circumstances onto other women, and equating the foetuses inside of them into the child which you lost, but they are not your child - and it is not your duty to protect them. In your circumstances your viewpoint is admirable, but other women are not you. Their feelings are not your feelings - you really should acknowledge that.

Big love to you natasia. I'm really sorry about your experience.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Again, if I'm on a life support machine and my EEG is negative I'm not, even if my heart is beating. At the moment I'm alive, but that's not because my heart is beating - it's because you can measure my brain activity and my conciousness.

A heartbeat is a metabolic reaction by a particular muscle group, you can grow a beating heart in a lab nowadays. What makes a person a person has much more to do with neurology, the formation of the brain, and the capacity for independent desires.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Girl, you're so vulnerable.

ORLY?

is the baby inside of you on a "life support machine" too?

Well I don't have a "baby" inside of me.

But metaphorically speaking... to a certain point, yes it is. A foetus cannot survive without the mother up to a certain point, and before a certain point there is no EEG in a foetus.

When someone is on life support in a hospital, and the higher mental functions are inactive (wheel's turning, hamster's dead) we normally ask the relatives of the person if they wish to switch the support off. It's a personal choice for them and very dependant on whether they (the relatives) consider them alive or not. Some say yes, and some say no.

It certainly isn't up to strangers.
GabiDaHun   
16 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

usually alive means, not dead.

Could you quantify not dead please?

Yes, and if they knew that there was no such option as abortion, I bet they'd be a damn sight more careful ...

There is no such option in Poland. And yet, women living in Poland have some of the highest abortion rates per-capita in the whole of Europe. Do you think people are being more careful or less careful?

An estimated 150,000 polish women got an abortion in 2010, in a nation of 30million ish.
An estimated 189,000 abortions took place in Britain in 2009 in a nation of 60million is.

Per capita the abortion rate in Polish women is nearly twice that of the UK. So much for being more careful.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Just here to say, there are still plenty that disagree -just most can't be bothered. I think everything has been discussed to death now. Neither sides are going to agree. However, in the western world, you guys are in the minority, and with education and the abililty to use reason over our rather base and biological "disgust" mechanisms, our world has actually got more moral.

No one has any right to dictate their morality onto others, morality is not black and white. They tried it with slavery, with womens rights, with homopobia and prejudice, and reason is winning. People "do unto others...." more in our modern epoch than ever before. The fact that you all feel the need to dictate your world view onto others, is quite arrogant. I'm off, you can continue the back slapping contest.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

So making it illegal would appear to kill adults.

It's really not worth providing facts here. Especially not to university papers, or health organisations. Facts get in the way personal opinion, and this should be wholeheartedly ignored.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

abortion is carried out because while the 'fetus' is small, it is relatively easy to do, and to pretend nothing serious has been done.

I don't think anyone has made that point.

. But you have said that while the 'fetus' is in the mother, it is not born, and therefore not alive, and not a person.

That's not what I said either.

So does it become a person when it comes out?

I have no idea. There is no scientific consensus on it.

What I do know, is that if a person is on life support, and their higher brain functions are non-existent (vegetative states), then the family are asked if they wish to continue the life support.

A brain-dead individual has no clinical evidence of brain function upon physical examination. This includes no response to pain and no cranial nerve reflexes.

It is important to distinguish between brain death and states that may mimic brain death (e.g., barbiturate overdose, alcohol intoxication, sedative overdose, hypothermia, hypoglycemia, coma or chronic vegetative states). Some comatose patients can recover, and some patients with severe irreversible neurological dysfunction will nonetheless retain some lower brain functions such as spontaneous respiration, despite the losses of both cortex and brain stem functionality.

Would you be willing to tell families who turn off the life support machines of their vegetative relatives, that they are murders and that the person is still alive, and that they are KILLING them? Or would you let them make their own damned decision?

Higher brain function controls the following:
Frontal Lobes
Parietal Lobe
Occipital Lobe
Temporal Lobe

Must we assign personhood to something which cannot and never has been able to form or store memories, has no emotions, no spontaneity, no recognition, that doesn't respond to any kind of stimuli, has never been able to and cannot recognise faces, or objects, or make sense of its surroundings, see, hear, or interpret any kind of audio-visuality? That if on a life machine, some would class as dead.

I honestly can't. Perhaps you can - and you have every right to. I'm not trying to change your personal perspective. What I'm asking is why should your perspective be legislated? How would you like it if I tried to legislate mine on you? I don't think you'd like it.

Didn't Jesus once say do unto others........?
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I didn't mean to patronise you, but it's quite easy to do a google search, and I've been working all day.

Everyone is shouting here. Including men. I don't think they've had abortions either. We've already discussed the mental health of women regarding the issue.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Don't you really have any problem with aborting a living creature inside you? ... What about human feelings?

Because it's not about me. It's about the personal feelings of the individual. I've already said that like, a million times. And I hate people trying to force their morality on others as if morality is set in stone - it's not that I'm defending abortion per se, I'm defending freedom of choice - and freedom of belief - especially on grounds without evidence. I'm defending the freedom for a woman to feel however she damn well pleases about her pregnancy - no matter how distasteful others might find that feeling.. It's not for me to dictate, and it's not for you either.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Anyway. I've said all I have to say on the matter. I'm off. You guys can all congratulate yourselves - or whatever it is you do now...
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

You basically said that these women were unstable anyhow, and it was nothing to do with the abortion.

I said no such thing. I said that there are markers, and that all women need to be properly psychologically vetted and counselled before they go through such a procedure. And it should be for a doctor to decide.

You really know absolutely nothing about this, all of your comments are based on questionable 'research' and an extraordinarily patronising attitude.

I've linked to scientific university papers, wikipedia, and documents which are directly linked to the findings of the world health organisation, and the countries own internal figures from various ministries and departments. How are they questionable. Would you prefer me to pull the figures out of my arse as you are doing? You've provided no figures, no studies, you've talked about your opinion and given anecdotes, you haven't quoted anyone but yourself.

Where life begins is a real philosophical question. It's hardly nonsense. The great philosophers have been discussing it since time began. We base our modern laws on philosophy and science. From my perspective, you guys seem to be avoiding all the difficult questions, or just don't want to broach them, or are just plain uncomfortable discussing them. There's no corners. I haven't done any back-pedalling, I haven't changed any goalposts. I haven't used emotive language. I haven't tried to force my view onto anyone. There's no corner here. It's not a F*king boxing ring.

So ... whatever you do, do not patronise those of us who have had several experiences that you have never, and will never, have.

I'm not patronising you because of your experience. It's just you seem to think that your experience is the be all and end all, and anything else is a "dodgy paper", even if it is linked to real, scientific, university and NGO studies. I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm asking you to look at the studies.

Goodnight.
GabiDaHun   
17 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I think abortion is better legal than not, and shouldn't be undertaken lightly. That's all.

So do I. It's late and I'm tired. I don't think anyone should have to go through abortion. I think there needs to be more care involved. I don't think that women are psychologically examined enough before undergoing abortion. I think it's incredibly difficult for everyone involved and the number one thing should be compassion and understanding. I'm sorry if I offended you.
GabiDaHun   
19 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I see it slightly different but being a provocateur, I guess that can be expected :) There's a grey area.

You can put me down for point G as well.

As for when it becomes killing. I'm still undecided, but for me it's somewhere between the development of the central nervous system and before the start of higher brain function.
GabiDaHun   
19 Oct 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I would definitely choose the woman over the baby.

There's a Chinese saying, that if you have a choice between saving your mother, child, or wife/husband you shoud always choose the mother. You can get another husband, you can have more children, but you will never get a new mother. It's quite close to the reason that you state above.

I told this to one of my Jewish friends and he said it sounded like a Jewish joke.
GabiDaHun   
21 Oct 2012
Off-Topic / I am teaching my Polish friend English, advice needed [30]

Hi. IMO you're correct about Cutting Edge - while it has some good lessons it's generally a load of pony. I hate teaching from that book.

You're doing the right thing by keeping conversation simple. She probably doesn't get enough time to actually practise using English for communication purposes, and it might be a good idea to work in tandem with what she is learning at the college. So you should get her to do all the talking, make her think, don't tell her everything and get her to "work it out for herself (if you can).

If you're going to approach grammar - keep it simple, use substitution tables, highlight conjugations, negatives and questions.. eg:

Grammar

This:
scribd.com/doc/21349490/Elementary-Grammar-Games-Jill-Hadfield
is quite a good book if you're going to concentrate on speaking with her. You can copy the image on your computer, paste it into paint, and then print it out. The language is quite targeted, and it means you can correct her mistakes.

There are a few websites where you can download materials, grammar books, etc. PM me if you want the links. New English File seems to be the standard course book at the moment - if you want to work from course books. It's quite good, but I prefer the old one.
GabiDaHun   
11 Nov 2012
Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

lol most girls prefer a beautiful circumcised penis over a smelly uncut cheese-covered schmeckle.

Actually I think you'll find you're talking out your butt-cheeks. For this reason:

Most girls aren't American girls (that might be a bit hard for you to understand, granted), circumcision isn't practised in most of the world.

Circumcision reminds most civilised Europeans of child genital mutilation and therefore most would find it unscceptable. Unless of course they are into barbaric religious rituals.

Talking of barbaric religious rituals.... What do you make of the female genital mutilation practised in sub-saharan parts of Africa? Why is it different to circumcision?
GabiDaHun   
13 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

The guilty vs. innocent capital punishment thing cannot be compared because we know for a fact that people, whether innocent or guilty are actually alive, and have a personhood and awareness.. you all need to think of a better comparison where we don't know if the person is alive or dead.

If we are going to take it for granted that every possible human is alive - because we cannot measure it where life ends or begins where does that put your stance on the life support machines?

Do we let people on these machines perpetually live forever in our hospitals because we don't know if they are really alive or dead, or because we cannot be certain they they won't eventually recover? Even if brain function signals are zero?

If it's a case of not being able to measure for certain where life/death begins I guess you would be willing to also criminalise all those doctors that regularly turn off all those life support machines of the people in hospitals. They might still be alive after all, and anything other than letting them live would be murder - as they don't have a say either.
GabiDaHun   
13 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Insults..... nice!!! I'd like to congratulate you.

You seem to have missed a few things:

Life support machines are artificial

A pregnant woman also keeps a "developing child" artificially alive. Let it develop outside the womb and see what happens. A woman is the ultimate, organic life support and development machines.

Life support machines to keep someone 'alive' who has little or no chance of recovery are a different thing

WRONG. Life support machines are not just used in cases where the person would definitely have been dead.. at least get your facts straight before you type rubbish, and have the nerve to call me stupid. The people who go on life support machines have a very high percentage of survival. Otherwise they wouldn't be on there in the first place. Doctors don't hook up every dying person to them for a reason.

developing child is rapidly growing, and is on a straight course to birth and being a young person.

WRONG AGAIN. There is no guarantee a developing child will ever be alive, as between 50 and 70 percent of all first trimester pregnancies are miscarried, so a pregnancy is no guarantee of life.

You haven't been pregnant.

So what? I haven't been pregnant, but that doesn't mean that I should be silenced? If you're going to hold that point against me I'd like to remind you that neither 4reigner or p3undone have been pregnant either, or any of the other men that support your point of view. I'm guessing you'll be telling them to butt out the conversation, on account of none of them having ever been pregnant.

I doubt you have seen someone close, such as your father, lying dead.

Now you're just projecting. You have no idea, and cannot promise me anything. You seem very sure of yourself.

But if you are really so stupid that I have to explain that to you, then am not sure why am even talking to you.

You call me stupid but post things that simply are not true. You say yourself that you "aren't interested in research" or what the vast majority of studies show, preferring to rely on your own anecdotes. You bring up some rubbish parallels about people on guilty people on death row like that's somehow relevant, and then call me stupid for talking about life support machines in a bid to redress the emotionality and balance. You are so sure of yourself that you dismiss anyone else as "not knowing the truth" when you haven't been able to prove either way what the proof is either.

Yes I'm stupid, stupid me. Call me stupid again. Go on. You can call me a c*nt too if you like. It won't make you or I any less right or wrong on this issue, will it?
GabiDaHun   
21 Nov 2012
Law / Can't get a social security number/PESEL in Poland (I'm from UK) [56]

I got a NIP before I got a PESEL. NIPs are pretty much redundant now anyway they are being phased out and mine hasn't been used since Janary.

Sorting out the paperwork has been the single most infuriating thing I've experienced since arriving here. It seems that every 'official' has 10 different ways of doing the same thing. I think the truth is none of the deck jockeys at the town halls actually know what they are talking about. They work on the basis that if they send you away (to anyone else- even with wrong information) then someone else will either sort it out, or it just simply isn't their problem anymore. If you ask 100 of these fools what to do you will get 100 different answers.

The way I got my PESEL (after running around for 3 months) was through my employer. I gave them my NIP and 3month zameldowania, they told me the nip wad useless and that they (I presume the authorities) would generate one for me with proof of employment.

Karta Porbytu wad nearly impossible - we had to get my boyfriends aunt involved, who is a judge in Krakow, even she was totally confused.

Not much help but I feel your pain. The system is ridiculous.
GabiDaHun   
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

I understand it completely. It's perfectly o.k to view things both as a principle and in reality. Reality is always more complicated. So the two views aren't mutually opposing.

In principle Foreigner4 doesn't like the idea of abortion, however in reality he is aware of the thousands of different complications that can arise with outsiders forcing rather life changing decisions on others , and so doesn't do much about it.

People such as 4reigner in principle are against "the murder of unborn children" (paraphrasing him), but in reality don't actually do much about it.
GabiDaHun   
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

P3undone. I'm in my mobile so I'll respond with a list of what you could do later.

Needless to say, if I genuinely thought that the state were sanctioning murder, I would be doing a dam sight more about it than posting anonymously on an internet forum.
GabiDaHun   
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2971]

Tbh I'm not sure what question Foreigner4 is supposed to be evading. How wrong is it is, IMO, a very good question.