History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]


Oh, I forgot the acoustic torpedo... what a long list of mediocrity... :D

History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]


Yeah, electric boats, air-independent propulsion, flying wings, turbojet bombers and fighters, rocket-powered fighters, sweep wings, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, supersonic surface-to-air missiles, man-portable air-defense systems, short-range ballistic missiles, assault rifles... what a myth!!! I'm sure it's some kind of anti-Polish conspiracy.

History / Are Polish territories natively German? [73]


Wait a second, your argument was that the presence of a multitude of nationalities means that every nationality can claim a city. You switch your argument.

But anyway. Danzig was a "Free and Hanseatic City", where burghers freely decided about the fate of their home. At one time they wanted to be part of Poland since the Polish crown ceded them more priviliges, and later they wanted to be part of Germany, after the rise of nationalism in the 19th century.

History / Are Polish territories natively German? [73]

The same can be said about almost every bigger city, especially Hansa cities. By this standards Poles shouldn't demand Krakow either, lol.

History / Are Polish territories natively German? [73]


Some nationalists and governments justified modern borders with the presence of their people 1000 years ago... that's why the topic is poisened.

News / Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations [176]


Which countries allow immigrants education in their own language?

News / Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations [176]


They have the same rights as everyone else.

News / Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations [176]


They were assimilated like the French Huguenots, the Czech protestants... and the Olędrzy.

News / Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations [176]

Economic immigrants aren't the same as ethnic minorities. I don't think these Poles can prove a long-term presence as a group on a specific territory in Germany, unlike the Sorbs or Danes.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


You have a limited view on German history. The different German states, most notably Prussia, often fought on several fronts. That's not the problem. The problem is to survive such a situation.

Poland and Brandenburg-Prussia were in the same situation, both were surrounded by enemies. The enemy of Brandenburg-Prussia was mainly Austria, but also France, Russia and Sweden, while stronger Poland had to be treated carefully because of Eastern Prussia. If you compare what Prussia and Poland did since ~1650 you see what went wrong in Poland. After the horrible losses of the Thirty Years War Prussia deprived the estates from power and centralized the government, invited a large amount of well skilled people, reclaimed land, built new villages and towns, reformed the army and avoided any trouble until the reforms showed success (during Fredericks reign). This changed the balance of power in Europe, which led to the war against Austria and the partitions of Poland, which were mainly done to built a new balance between Prussia and Russia.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


But we don't talk about the 19th century here but about the 18th century. And in the 18th century Prussia was way smaller than Poland, and yet became one of the great European powers. The number of people isn't everything.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Prussia wasn't Germany. Keep in mind that, for instance, Austria and Saxony were often at war with Prussia. Prussia itself had only 2.4 million people in 1740 and 5,6 million at the end of Fredericks reign.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


I don't have any books about it, but have a look at the numbers here:
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altpreu%C3%9Fische_Heeresorganisation

The two tables are interesting. Number of artillery and field guns. Doesn't look like a country in a serious economic crisis... ;)

USA, Canada / Going back to the Old Country of Poland after more than 25 years! (from USA) [249]


Seriously, don't drive without GPS! Either rent a car with GPS or buy a cheap portable device. Makes your trip much, much easier.
And btw: many car rentals in Germany don't let you drive to Poland.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


The Landwehr was estalished in 1813, after the defeat by the French in 1806. After the French defeat the Prussian army was indeed limited to ~42.000 men. During Fredericks time the army was much bigger.


You are a bit misinformed about Prussias might I'm afraid. Prussia lost around 500.000 people during Fredericks wars, but gained 3 million people, among them 250.000 immigrants. And he tripled public revenues between 1740 and 1786. Bad were only the first few years after the Silesian Wars, but the army was never affected by this, because nothing was more important than the army.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


At that time Prussia had around 190.000 soldiers. There was a reason why it was called a army with a country.
But ultimately it was Polands own weakness. Poland wasn't the only country which was surrounded by enemies. Brandenburg-Prussia was, since 1650, at war or attacked by France, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Russia and Saxony. Earlier it was almost wiped out during the Thirty Years War, lost an enormous amount of people and was pushed around by almost all neighbours (including Poland), since it was so weak.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Maybe you should turn off the computer for a while and read some books... it hurts. :D

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Must be a different game, since Swiss mercenaries and Landsknechts dominated much of Central and Western Europe back then.

News / How Polish diaspora see future of Poland? as ethnic Polish state or just Polish in origin? [120]

Economic success of Poland + freedom of movement within the EU = multiethnic Poland

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


How can a society without a developed urban middle class (missing industry and cities) be "one of the most innovative, tolerant and advanced countries"? Who was innovative and developed this "advanced" country? The Szlachta? Or the serfs?

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]

The general problem is that in Poland quotes of German politicians and rulers are frequently seen out of context to prove a point. Frederick II was probably the Prussian king who cared the least about such things as nationality. He spoke bad German... I think he actually spoke German only to his horses, he had a low opinion of Germans, he didn't care about religions. His entire mindset was practical and directed to raise Prussias standing. For instance, his attitude towards Jews was strictly practical. He supported them in one area to promote trade, and tried to limit their influence in other areas where the Jews dominated business.

I'm sure the quote about Polish teachers has a completely different background, especially since he promoted the settling of Poles and Czechs in other parts of Silesia.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [118]


Why? Klotzkos old town was partly destroyed between 1959 and 1970 due to subsidence damages, which the new owners of the town didn't correct at an early stage.


Then Poles historians lie, since my Polish source mentions Legnica and Lwówek Śląski. And btw., all Communist regimes prefered to built precast concrete slabs to counter the housing shortage, since it was much cheaper than preserving historic town centers.


So, you think the old town of Jelenia Gora always looked like this:

Because, earlier the town looked like this:

Strange, isn't it? But since you ignored the pictures of Legnica too I think you don't want to know the truth but prefer to believe in your little fairy tale.

Oh, and thank you for calling me an idiot, you uninformed *]/%°>.


As I previously said, not everything can be explained by the war. During the early 50s Wrocław delivered up to 165 million bricks to Warsaw... each year. The whole eastern part of the old town, which was partly rebuildable, was sacrificed for it. Usually people like you have no clue how big the old town of Wrocław actually was.

But Wrocław is a completely different case anyway, since it was the main stage of the Communist propaganda efforts.


That's all I want to say here... ;)

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [118]

Entire towns were seldom demolished because of the German origin but rather forfeit due to, how to call it... emotional resistance by the new owners, and later destroyed. Prominent examples of towns damaged or even completely destroyed after the war can be found mostly in Silesia, since the war didn't affect the southern part. Jelenia Gora, Klotzko, Luban, Strzelin, Lwówek Śląski, Legnica, Nysa, Brzeg are examples of towns that suffered after the war. Some lost their old town entirely after the war, like Jelenia Gora and Legnica, others were damaged to rebuild Warsaw, like Brzeg, Nysa and Wrocław.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]

These districts in Lower Silesia were mostly close to Upper Silesia or the Polish border and hosted Polish linguistic enclaves. That's nothing new. But even there Poles were a minority. Only in some villages they formed a majority.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]

Hmm... let me think. Thousands and thousands of Silesians fled to other countries during the Habsburg rule since their faith was surpressed (by force!). During Prussian rule thousands of Poles and Czechs settled in Silesia.

Looks like faith was much more of an issue than language in pre-nationalistic times.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]


Other forums are hardly a good source, especially when the discussion centers around small linguistic islands and different periods of time.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]


You complain that Prussia had no minority politics before the age of nationalism? And, so what?
And of course there was education before Prussia... either for children of wealthy people and/or education provided by the church, which had no use for the ideas of the enlightenment.


I object the idea to mix up Poland, Silesia, Frederick, Bismarck and to create a huge Anti-Polish conspiracy. History is a bit more complicated, and Prussias politics in Silesia were quite different from the politics in Poland.

Do you know that Frederick also invited Czechs and Poles to Silesia? How does this get along with his alleged Germanisation efforts?


LOL, this hurts!
1. Silesia was almost entirely protestant before the counter-reformation
2. Because of the counter-reformation (do you know what the counter-reformation actually was?) a large number of people fled to Saxony, Brandenburg and Poland (so much for religious freedom)

3. this Silesian matter was so important that several conflicts between Protestant and Catholic powers occured, which led the churches of peace, among other things
4. the border churches along the Silesian border also show the large number of Protestants
5. the building of a church and the appointment of a pastor were a matter of the community, the Prussian state just gave the permission. You think all the Protestant churches which popped up shortly after Prussias takeover were built for fun?


No, Poles were actually a minority already in 1400, when Germans surpassed them.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]


That's the typical, narrow-minded view which is based on nationality and language, which is not suitable to explain the politics of the 18th century. The Prussian takeover of Silesia led to huge changes in the administration of the church, state, educational system and so on. Education became compulsory (!), freedom of religion was established, and the state administration became closer to the people. This was all very progressive, but meant that minorities had much more contact with the majority. For instance, each child had to go to the school, and church services were hold in the language of the majority (and not in Latin anymore). That's why the Polish minorities in Lower Silesia disappeared while the Polish majority in Upper Silesia stayed.

History / Poles in the Napoleonic era [224]


You confuse several things here. The topic is the early 19th century, your first quote is from the early 20th century. Because of the evolving nationalism in Europe these eras were quite different. Before the age of nationalism, and after the enlightenment, Prussia was actually quite liberal and a pretty progressive society.

And Bismarcks quote often gets misread. He also says that Poles have his full sympathy. What he said was that he fully understands the Polish cause, but in order to preserve the unity of Germany he has to take harsh measures. In retrospect this was of course wrong, but at that time no government had an answer to the evolving nationalism of the 19th century.

News / Poland A and Ukraine B. Compare how far Poland has advanced. [282]

ROFL. Isn't it amazing that some people here sound exactly like 19th century Germans when they talked about Poland? :D