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Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2?


polak123 1 | 4
10 Apr 2011 #1
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.
Was it for revenge or Coal.
Bzibzioh
10 Apr 2011 #2
Was it for revenge

Yes

Coal

No

Correct the title of the thread; looks retarded.
NrthPznnDvsn - | 10
10 Apr 2011 #3
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.
Was it for revenge or Coal.

It was becouse USSR considered us a former colony of the russian empire before wwI. This event in polish history is also called the 4th partion of Poland. USSR was never our ally we just had a non agression pact with them.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
10 Apr 2011 #4
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.
Was it for revenge or Coal.

1. Revenge.
2. Creating a buffer zone (the most idiotic movement that almost cost them the war) between them and Germany.
NrthPznnDvsn - | 10
10 Apr 2011 #5
Creating a buffer zone (the most idiotic movement that almost cost them the war) between them and Germany.

?? germany could have annexed Poland anyway and germans would have closer to Moscow.. .
Midas 1 | 571
10 Apr 2011 #6
Poland whopped Russia's ass in 1919 or 1920 ( don't recall precisely ), back when Lenin was in charge and back when USSR still wanted to "export revolution" on bayonettes. Poland saved much of Western Europe ( half of Germany, in the very least ) from becoming communist in that campaign. Something all of Wester Europe forgot about promptly.

Some of the military leaders on the USSR side in that lost campaign included Budionny, Tuchatschevski and last but not the least - Stalin. Some claim that was the reason why Stalin had it in for Poland.

But I personally think the attack had more to do with a rapidly opening window of opportunity and them being able to snatch up a lot of land while destroying an opposing state at the same time.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
10 Apr 2011 #7
?? germany could have annexed Poland anyway and germans would have closer to Moscow.. .

Russia had massive defence lines and supply depos near its border with Poland, when they occupied eastern Poland they took those hundreds of thousands of men who garrisoned all those concrete bunkers and emplacements and moved them 200 miles west to where there were no defences at all.
OP polak123 1 | 4
10 Apr 2011 #8
If Germany was extremely racist and hated communism why would they side-up with the Russians?
where they afraid of them wanted to get the job done easier?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
10 Apr 2011 #9
They only hated communists because Nazis were socialists competing against communist parties. To win against the communists, the Nazis had to act like they were absolute abominations. Truth is, Nazism is a form of socialism bordering on communism. Stalin must have seen these common threads when he befriended Adolf.
Midas 1 | 571
10 Apr 2011 #10
If Germany was extremely racist and hated communism why would they side-up with the Russians?
where they afraid of them wanted to get the job done easier?


Please read a bit on political theory, esp. on windows of opportunity, you'll get your answers really quickly.
southern 75 | 7,096
10 Apr 2011 #11
why did Russia attack polan in WW2

For military reasons.They wanted Germans to be far from Moscow when they started their attack against the USSR,they wanted to keep a constant threat on Berlin and eastern Pommern and have the supply lines of Germans extended during their attack since they would have to build the supply centers more western from where they would if they had conquered the whole Poland.In fact by conquering the whole Poland the Wehrmacht would have come close to Minsk which is just 12 hours from Moscow by train.

In fact as recently discovered documents show Zhukov proposed to Stalin to hit Germany in April 1941 in a surprise attack and Stalin was not unmoved however he dismissed the plan since the soviet preparations had still not be completed.
SRK85 - | 72
10 May 2011 #13
A few reasons.
1. Revenge. The Poles were able to beat the Bolsheviks during the brief Polish-Soviet War. In 1920 which is often referred to the miracle of Warsaw, the Poles where able to beat back the invading Soviets. Eventually the Bolsheviks under Lenin pushed for peace and thus the Treaty of Riga was agreed upon. The Treaty of Riga extended the Polish border and Lenin looked like a failure. So its obvious that Stalin would want to regain these territories and even more once he had the chance.

2. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was agreed upon during the Spring of 1939 in which the Germans and Russians planned to carve up the Second Polish Republic. So essentially the Soviets had invasion plans drawn out and just needed to wait til the Germans invaded.

3. The Russians have always meddled in Polish affairs, and at one time much of Poland was under the Russian Empire. So for Stalin why not extend the Soviet borders while gobbling up more land.

Also the Germans only allied with the Soviets briefly so they could invade Poland and invade the West without having to worry about a second front.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
10 May 2011 #14
In 1610 Polish forces invaded Moscow.....In 1939 the Russians were just returning the favour...
hubabuba - | 113
10 May 2011 #15
wildrover
they had returned the favour many times already, before 1939. Besides Poland fought one on one not 2 or 3 against 1
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2011 #16
They were on an imperialistic drive for starters. Another point is for coal. The third was that potential soldiers for the future died in Warsaw whilst the Soviets held back and watched it happen. They wanted that result. Territory was important for Stalin too.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
10 May 2011 #17
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.

It wasn't with the allies at any point. It co-operated with em, but calling them allied to the allies is ridicule especially considering the treatment allied soldiers got when visiting the SU or the red army soldiers after visiting allied troops. The allies were considered enemies all the time... You know how they got their nuclear bomb?
Babinich 1 | 455
10 May 2011 #18
In fact as recently discovered documents show Zhukov proposed to Stalin to hit Germany in April 1941 in a surprise attack and Stalin was not unmoved however he dismissed the plan since the soviet preparations had still not be completed.

And how would that field trip have worked out for the Soviets?
convex 20 | 3,978
10 May 2011 #19
Probably pretty well considering that Germany had just began the offensive against Yugoslavia and Greece...and the Soviets had just concluded a non-aggression pact with Japan...
gumishu 11 | 5,017
10 May 2011 #20
If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.
Was it for revenge or Coal.

because you need to learn the history of the second world war more thoroughly - including it's background (btw the history is taught quite thoroughly in Polish schools)
wildrover 98 | 4,451
10 May 2011 #21
they had returned the favour many times already, before 1939. Besides Poland fought one on one not 2 or 3 against 1

If you have one thousand soldiers in a defended position , it requires at least three thousand soldiers to stand a good chance of defeating them , so three against one is the ideal military situation..
gumishu 11 | 5,017
10 May 2011 #22
the Soviet army was so concentrated in the border area that it is very possible they wanted to attack first - Viktor Suvorov claims that after the German offensive started (July 22) one of the first orders from Moscow to the troops was to destroy sealed 'in case of war' orders - he claims further that those new orders never reached some fighting troops and some officers knowing the new orders were desperate for guidelines and opened the envelopes only to see that the orders called for an offensive actions and were worthless

some other points show that the Russians were preparing for an assault on Germans themselves - the share of their air power they have kept in the vicinity of the border - Germans destroyed couple of thousands Russian planes on the ground in the first days of Barbarossa - I wouldn't be surprised they have thus eliminated 2/3 of the total Soviet air power - also the biggest tank battle until the famous Kurks battle in 1943 took place sone 20-40 kilometers from the present day Polish-Ukrainian border which was then German-Soviet border

if you want to defend a country you should have deeply set defences and reserves - the Soviets had little in terms of that though they sure could afford that
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
10 May 2011 #23
If you have one thousand soldiers in a defended position , it requires at least three thousand soldiers to stand a good chance of defeating them , so three against one is the ideal military situation..

You forgot about the tanks ;)
There were anti-tank weapons in the Polish military, but ammunition was vital. It was simple, not enough equipment. People in reserve had to wait to get equipment, and until then all the major battles had been fought. Also for instance the Czech-Slovak division didn't have any equipment either. They probably had lower priority to arm foreigners to fight the nazi's but it was becaouse of the problems with supplying and arming soldiers that went downhill. Also the grand battle plan included the French to do something becaouse

A. If the French started an major offensive (just like the Russians were preparing for durign ww1) the Germans would have to relocate their forces.

B. Stalin wouldn't perhaps have invaded Poland as he wanted to dodge any confrontation with the allies yet. (It was becaouse of the French lack of action that the Soviet Union invaded Poland (+ having the Polish army on the retreat to eastern Poland)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2011 #24
Mr G is right. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' applies here. Read Armageddon by Leon Uris about the immediate aftermath of the war and how the Soviets wanted the biggest share of the spoils.

Russia didn't want to be seen to be inept by Nazi Germany. A show of force and sacrifice would sound the warning bells in Hitler's mind.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
10 May 2011 #25
Read Armageddon by Leon Uris

Ill keep that in mind :)

and how the Soviets wanted the biggest share of the spoils.

Until 1941 when the Soviet Union was attacked, it only wanted to expand. But when it got hit by Nazi Germany it came under paranoia of getting attacked. One of the reasons that it withdrew from Austria after WW2, and the reason why Poland was important for SU. It was between Germany and the SU...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2011 #26
In times of war, respect for territorial jurisdiction and integrity diminishes. Just look at Obama and Pakistan.

The Soviets' main advantage was their sheer numbers. For such well-trained soldiers, I feel that many died too cheaply but there were always more on the way to replace them. Poland was easy pickings after the Nazis ploughed through from the west. Many battlelines were drawn in Poland and the Soviets played the game.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
10 May 2011 #27
The Soviets' main advantage was their sheer numbers.

Yeah, but still it had consequences, look at how the Soviet Union was after the war... Did they go halooba like U.S.A invading everyone? Their loss of population lead to a defensive doctrine in the grand schemes of things. It wasn't until some time had passed that they went into Afganistan! :)

Poland was easy pickings after the Nazis ploughed through from the west. Many battlelines were drawn in Poland and the Soviets played the game.

Well I wouldn't say easy, easier yes. the baltic states were easy pickings.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2011 #28
It was more to impose communism rather than assert themselves as a global superpower. Indoctrination continued unabated in the Soviet Union. They brought many officers back from Berlin to inculcate new 'virtues' into them. Defensive they were but they also kept an iron grip on Poland and still looked outwards.

The pickings were pretty easy given the powers involved.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
10 May 2011 #29
It was more to impose communism rather than

I would rather say reinforce, they aided Cuba becaouse they were commies, they aided Vietnam cause of commies, N.Korea cause of commies and so on. If anyone wanted to impose it was their "puppets". They had puppets to reinforce their defence not to spread communism like they wanted in 1917.

Defensive they were but they also kept an iron grip on Poland and still looked outwards.

Yeah but not from point of world domination, but more of security. You can compare the goals of the soviet union from 1917 with after Stalins death in 1953. They didn't invade anyone anymore like they did with baltic states, Poland or Finland. They supported only places were there ere commies in trouble and were an good opportunity for a better defence.

The pickings were pretty easy given the powers involved.

That yes, still blood had to be spilled
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2011 #30
I meant to impose it here in Poland. Sure, Poland had some commies within their ranks but it wasn't stamped on in the same fashion as the Soviets did it. They sought to firmly embed it within the political and, indeed, social fabric. It was to be felt by the people and not just talked about.

Which is why the Baltic states want to maintain cordial ties so they don't have to poo their pants every day. The KGB needs a role and many Poles will remember the wrongdoings of the NKVD, its predecessor.

It isn't in the Polish character just to turn over and be trampled on. Stalin, for example, really had to work hard to impose communism here. Most Poles stubbornly refused his offers and, in hindsight, they were right to fight.


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