The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Posts by BookOwl  

Joined: 27 Aug 2010 / Female ♀
Last Post: 21 Sep 2010
Threads: -
Posts: 22
From: USA, DeKalb, IL
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: Reading, travel, crafts, computer

Displayed posts: 22
sort: Latest first   Oldest first
BookOwl   
21 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

smigly wilno
Very well said! (or quoted) I agree with you 100%!

Do not listen to those naysayers who chastise you for your pride. You have national pride, which is a very different kind of pride than that which "goeth before a fall." That kind of pride is defined as "a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority." (from Dictionary.com)

From your post #182, I read that you are proud of your Polish heritage, that your father survived Siberia and that he fought in the Polish army (not sure if that is the correct translation), that the country of Poland is still breathing, of the Polish fight for freedom from Communist control, and that the economy of Poland remains resilient and vibrant. You also say that you "remain PROUD of what challenges each and everyone of our parents and grandparents faced and overcame."

I do not read anywhere where you give a high opinion of your own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority. You are simply "proud to be Polska," one Polish person among many. Bravo! That, IMO, is the perfect kind of pride to have! :-)
BookOwl   
19 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

Thank you for the correction. I was referring to the bird on the Polish Falcon flag which I assumed was a Falcon. Oooops. And thank you for the information provided as most Polish flags I have seen were just white and red.

You are very welcome! :-)

you can't say I am not Polish because I can't speak the language. I mean what is the point of this site if we can't converse intelligently about our history and heredity and help each other to discover more about who and where we came from.

Bravo! Well said! I agree with you 100%!!

You are sad example of someone who already forgot his native tongue but not yet learned a new language.

No, Krystyna did not forget her native tongue. She said she still speaks Polish well, but she can't write it aniymore.
BookOwl   
18 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

There is NO eagle on the Polish flag.Polish flag is white and red.ONLY president of Poland flag and the navy banner include white eagle.

Grubas, why don't you do your homework before you answer questions on the forum?

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Poland

In practice, however, this restriction is often ignored and the two flags - with and without coat of arms - are treated as interchangeable.[3] The variant with the coat of arms is particularly often used by the Polonia, or Polish diaspora outside Poland, especially in the United States.[10]
BookOwl   
17 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Is tallness common among Polish people? [201]

all poles DO drink :]

Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but the mods didn't close it yet, and I just had to comment on this statement.

It is false: All Poles do NOT drink. I am a Pole (well, if you want to get picky, I am technically a Polish-American), and I do not drink liquor. I drink other beverages, of course, but not alcohol. It's not that I have any moral objections to it, I just don't like the taste of it.
BookOwl   
17 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

Are you referring to the falcon on the Polish flag

FYI, it is an eagle, not a falcon, on the Polish flag.

American fraternal order of Polish Falcons that my grandfather was a member of?

However, there is a fraternal organization called the Polish Falcons of America:

polishfalcons.org

Is this the organization that your grandfather was a member of?
BookOwl   
17 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

You are retarded,indoctrinated and brain washed American

I beg your pardon, I am not retarded. I graduated as the salutatorian of my high school class. In case you don't know what that means, I had the second highest Grade Point Average in my graduating class of 550 students. I have a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Illinois and a Master of Science degree from Northern Illinois University. I also graduated with honors from both of those prestigious universities.

I don't like to brag, but you force me to do so with your ridiculous claim that I am retarded.

And now I am also an "indoctrinated and brain washed American." Geesh! I cannot be proud of my Polish heritage, and now I cannot even be proud to be an American!! I am a woman without a country!

<pretending to sniffle>

And spare me this "greatest country in the world, the land of the free and the home of the brave" propaganda BS.Will you?

As for "the land of the free and the home of the brave," that is not "propaganda BS". I was only quoting part of the American national anthem, "The Star-Spangled Banner":

O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


And think of all Poles are jealous of you

No, I don't think ALL Poles are jealous of Americans. Only grubas.

listening to Americans you may start thinking that the world is still turning around only thanks to United States.

What? You mean it isn't???!!!! Just kidding!! LOL :-)
BookOwl   
16 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

Why can't you be just "American-American"?

Why can't I just be proud of my Polish heritage? What is wrong with that???? And don't go talking to me about "REAL" Poles. Who are you to judge who are the real Poles and who aren't? You are just jealous because you do not live in the USA, the greatest country in the world, the land of the free and the home of the brave!!!

You see, I am proud of being an American first, and then I am proud of my Polish heritage. And no matter what you say, I will always feel that way.

Yes, I would love to visit Poland sometime soon, but it is not possible for me to live there. It is not just about what I want and how I feel. I have a husband and children here in America. My husband is a tenured professor and the assistant chairman of the Mathematics Department at a university here. He cannot just pick up and leave to move to a foreign country. Nor would he want to. He does not have any Polish blood, so I don't think he would be thrilled about moving to Poland. My kids would probably not be too happy about it, either. They have their happy life here, with their school, friends, sports, etc.

So tell me me why don't you guys (Pol-Ams) just leave Poland alone since you have no connection with the country.

You said the PolAms should leave Poland alone. What are we doing to it? How are we offending it? What have PolAms ever done to you to make you so hateful towards us? And, by the way, doesn't the fact that all four of my grandparents emigrated from "the country formerly known as Poland" give me a connection to Poland?
BookOwl   
15 Sep 2010
Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

But they weren't from Poland. Most Polish-Americans really, really struggle to grasp this - there was no Poland for them to have been from!

My grandparents were from the Austrian-occupied part of Poland. They came to the USA in the early 1900's. Are you saying that all the citizens of that partition of Poland became Austrians in nationality during the occupation? Because that is just ridiculous - a person cannot go from having Polish blood in his veins one day to Austrian blood in his veins the next day! And then, during the war, when the Germans occupied Poland, the people's blood became German? That is a bunch of hogwash!!

The people of "the country formerly known as Poland" were Polish before the Partitions, during the Partitions, and after the Partitions. The name of the country didn't matter. The people still retained their Polish ethnicity!

To me - you can't claim to be Polish if you don't speak the language.

Speaking for myself, I do not claim to be POLISH. I am POLISH-AMERICAN. Or, as someone mentioned earlier, I am an American of Polish descent. I do not speak Polish. Well, I know a few words here and there, but that's all. My 2nd generation parents spoke Polish, but they never taught me. Now I would like to learn the language, but they are both dead, and so are all four of my grandparents. I have an aunt who is fairly fluent in Polish, but she lives 1 1/2 hours away. No colleges around here offer Polish classes, and I've heard it is a difficult language to learn on one's own. So, I am rather stuck. Is it my fault that I never learned how to speak Polish? Am I somehow "less Polish", oh excuse me, "less Polish-American", because I do not know Polish??
BookOwl   
15 Sep 2010
Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4501]

Hello, could you please tell me the meaning of my grandparents' Polish surnames:

Pconka (used to be spelled Pczonka in Poland, but the "z" got lost in the ocean on the way to America! :-) )

Strojny

Uszko

Gonciarz

Thank you very much!
BookOwl   
13 Sep 2010
USA, Canada / PolAms -- do you regard yourselves only as 'white Americans'? [187]

Okay, that is an interesting observation, but what does it have to do with the discussion about Poles and Polish-Americans? I'm not seeing the connection...

The truth is that many of the Polonia, as well as the others would drop the "Polish" label in an instant if it suited them.

I disagree. I think that many, many Polish-Americans (as well as many others of Polish descent around the world) "discovered how Polish they were" on 16 October 1978, when Karol Józef Wojtyła became Pope John Paul II. Having a Polish Pope might have been the primary reason that Polish (or Polack) jokes went out of style in America. It was cool and honorable to be Polish (or Polish-American). We were proud to identify with the first Polish pope. (He was also the first non-Italian pope since Dutch Pope Adrian VI in 1522.)

And, John Paul II did not disappoint us. From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II

[He] has been acclaimed as one of the most influential leaders of the twentieth century. It is widely held that he was instrumental in ending Communism in his native Poland and eventually all of Europe, as well as significantly improving the Catholic Church's relations with Judaism, Islam, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Communion. He was one of the most-traveled world leaders in history, visiting 129 countries during his pontificate. He spoke the following languages: Italian, French, German, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Ukrainian, Russian, Croatian, Esperanto, Ancient Greek and Latin as well as his native Polish.
BookOwl   
7 Sep 2010
USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

Your traditions are of a Poland of what, 100 years ago? That's not the culture of today.

Yes, you are correct, that is why they are called TRADITIONS. Here is a definition of "tradition" from Webster's New World Dictionary:

Tradition: "story, belief, custom, information, etc. that is handed down from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice."

Traditions are not supposed to imitate the CULTURE of today's Poland. Traditions are to keep alive what was done by our ancestors, so that our children can learn how things were done in the past, so that they can feel connected to their grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, etc. down through the ages. By learning Polish traditions, our children are learning some of Poland's history. I don't see anything wrong with that. On the contrary, I think it is very beneficial.

Obviously, one is not forced to teach these traditions to one's children. But I could use ChicagoPollock's argument to reason that we should not teach any history at all in schools today. After all, the culture of today is nothing like it was back then, so why should we have students learn about it? It's totally irrelevant, it would be like living in the past.

That argument doesn't hold up, does it? We learn about the past because it teaches us important lessons for the present and for the future. If we didn't learn from the mistakes of the past, we might repeat them. Also, studying the past shows us how our homeland became the great country that it is today. (There are many more reasons for studying history, of course, but space constrains me to be brief.)

In a sense your living a lie. You live in a never-never land. If someone has been here or anywhere for that matter for two or three generations what connection does one have with the old country? Culture evolves,

I'm not saying that Polish immigrants should live life in America as if they're still living in Poland. Of course they should learn English and absorb American culture and contribute to American society as quickly as possible. But I see nothing wrong with ALSO preserving traditions from Poland (or perhaps some of these are actually Polish-American traditions): for instance, preparing Polish food, Polish dancing in traditional Polish costumes, teaching Polish to the next generations, observing Polish Christmas & Easter traditions, etc.
BookOwl   
7 Sep 2010
USA, Canada / PolAms -- do you regard yourselves only as 'white Americans'? [187]

You know, for me, I would understand what they are talking about, because my family came from Poland.

Yea, Patty! (May I call you Patty? Or do you prefer Pat? And you may call me Jackie! :-) )

Very well put!

I agree 100%!!

And, by the way, Patty, I agree with everything else you said in all your other posts on this thread, as well. I didn't list all your quotes here because that would have taken up too much space. Just wanted you to know that I support you and thatYOU ROCK!! :-) :-)
BookOwl   
3 Sep 2010
Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]

southeast

Oops, sorry. This was supposed to say "southwest", not "southeast." My mistake. I believe the southeast part of Poland was then occupied by Ukraine. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

<<sheepish grin>>

if someone over here said hey, can I have a fag,
well, lets just say eyes would turn.

He he, that's for sure! :-)
BookOwl   
3 Sep 2010
USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

FUZZYWICKETS
By the way, I'm a "she," not a "he," which you could have easily discovered by rolling over my uername or clicking on it to view my profile. I will accept your apology now. :-)
BookOwl   
30 Aug 2010
USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

It sounds to me like you are questioning the innate intelligence of Polish and Polish-American people. Why does it matter to you where they live? Let them live where they want to live. Besides, do you have any data to support your claim that the majority of Polish-Americans live in "shite" neighborhoods"?
BookOwl   
30 Aug 2010
Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

were trying to condition the American public to have their anti-Polish prejudice with their Anti-Polish propaganda?

YES! YES! AMEN! PREACH IT, BROTHER!! ;-)

only because Polish Americans finally had enough of being a "good sport" about being an ethnic punching bag and finally spoke out against all these anti-Polish slurs.

Good for them!! It was about time that somebody stood up to those snooty Hollywood bigots!

But it is good he apologized for his hate-through-humor jokes against Polish people. I give him credit for that.

It is good that you can see the positive in the situation.
BookOwl   
29 Aug 2010
Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]

formerly ProudPoleAmer

don't attempt to tell people that it is the right Polish word - because it's not.

Oh, I wouldn't dream of it! (Not that anyone in my family would care, anyway.) You are a very strong defender of the purity of the Polish language, considering you're not even Polish, nor do you speak Polish (not very well, anyway, according to your profile). Why is that, if you don't mind my asking?

shame on the immigrants for not even using their own language correctly

You just said they were "uneducated peasants!" How could they be expected to use their language correctly? They probably didn't even know the correct word for grandmother.

It's the dialect of uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic.

It more than likely came from some dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian and somehow "stuck" among the Polish immigrant community in America.

Okay, let me see if I understand what you are saying:

- There is a Polish-American dialect.
- It likely came from a dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian.
- The "uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic" brought it to America with them.

- Let us take a look at each item and try to determine if it is true:

- There is a Polish-American dialect. - Well, a native Polish speaker would have to listen in on a conversation in a Polish-American home or place of business (where Polish is spoken) to determine the veracity of this statment. Or, we could ask a linguist, I suppose. I think given the fact that many different words are used for grandmother in Polish-American as opposed to the correct word being "Babcia" in Polish (and there are sure to be many other words like this), it is safe to assume that there is indeed a Polish-American dialect.

- It likely came from a dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian. - Whoa, now horsie! How did you make the jump from the fact that there is a Polish-American dialect to the idea that it likely came from a dialect in the East that was influenced by Russian? Is it just because Busia and Babushka (the Russian word for grandmother) are similar words? You obviously can't base a theory on just one word. Hmmm, if the Polish-American dialect was influenced by this dialect in the East, one could go to the East and study the dialect of the people there. Then go to America and study the Polish-American dialect there, and see if there are any similarities. Then your theory might be proven (or not). Without any proof, however, it is just a bunch of hot air.

- The "uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic" brought it to America with them.- Okay, there are some major problems with this statement. First, how do you know ALL the immigrants were uneducated peasants? We need proof to believe this. Second, how do you know they had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic? Do you have a list of all the immigrants' occupations? Third, and this is a BIGGIE, not all the immigrants came to America during the 2nd Polish Republic! (I presume you mean between the years 1918 - 1939.) In fact, the majority of them did not come during this time. My grandparents came to the US in the early 1900's.

It's no surprise that many of the American-Polish words are from people who lived in the Russian part of occupied Poland - essentially, peasants.

Once again, where is your proof? Do you have census records or anything? Have you visited Polish-Americans in the USA? Have you ever even been to the USA? My grandparents were from the Austrian-occupied part of Poland (southeast/south-central).
BookOwl   
29 Aug 2010
Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

Actually, it was only about 1/3 of my life. :-) Thankfully, telling Polish jokes seems to have gone out of style.

I believe that telling jokes about a person's ethnicity, race, physical characteristics, mental capabilities, or anything else unique to that person is an unusually cruel and thoughtless way to get a laugh. Every person was made with special characteristics unique to him or her. These should be celebrated, not ridiculed.
BookOwl   
28 Aug 2010
USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

if anyone is going to immigrate to another land one should learn the language and culture of the host country.

Yes, I think one should learn the language and learn about the culture. But I'm not sure that one should necessarily immerse oneself in the culture.

For example, what if my husband were transferred to a country like Iran or Iraq, which has a very traditional Islamic culture? My family is Christian. Are you saying that we should all become Muslim so that we can "absorb the culture" and "contribute to ...society"? If we didn't, it is doubtful that the people would accept us as true members of their community. Sure, we could all learn the language and learn as much as possible about the culture. We could try to make friends with the Iranians or Iraqis despite our very different cultures and backgrounds.

However, I think it would be very difficult to truly become a part of the community without becoming Muslim. And that is something that I would not be able to do, since I am a strong, committed Christian.

Also, what is wrong with folks retaining some of their traditions from the "old country" to pass along to their children, and to their children's children, and so on? That is one of the things that makes America so great: she is a melting pot of all different ethnic groups from all over the world! If everyone dropped their celebrations and traditions from the old country, America would become a boring place, indeed.
BookOwl   
28 Aug 2010
Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

In Chicago where I grew up, People of Polish origin either referred to themselves as Polocks, pollacks, however you want to spell it, or Polish. The term Pole was never used.

I am a Polish-American who also grew up in Chicago. My large extended family and my PolAm friends never referred to ourselves as "Pollocks." That was very definitely a derogatory term. We just said we were Polish.

Polish jokes come from established Polish people making fun of Polish people just "off the boat". Making fun of their ignorance about the "New World".

My family never made up Polish jokes, and we certainly never told them. The Polish jokes I heard were told by non-Poles and were insulting, degrading, and offensive. They were the "sub-human intelligence jokes about Poles", as MediaWatch put it.

So, in summary, please don't call me a Pollock, and please don't tell me any Polish jokes. And, in return, I will not use any ethnic slurs to address you or any other person or group, nor will I tell you offensive jokes about ANY ethnic group.
BookOwl   
27 Aug 2010
USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

I posit the thesis that the degree to which children of immigrants speak their parents' language is a measure of how superior/inferior the native culture is compared to the host one.

WarsaWasRaw-
I find your thinly-veiled racism against Poles and Polish culture ugly, highly offensive, and, frankly, revolting. It has no place in a modern society of tolerance and mutual acceptance of others' differing backgrounds and cultures.

And, be very careful when using the words "superior and inferior" when referring to culture or race. Adolph Hitler used those same words, "Superior Race," in referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryans that he thought should rule the world to the elimination of all other "races." (i.e., Jews, mentally & physically handicapped people, etc.) When people start thinking of one race or culture as superior to another, disastrous results are sure to follow.