News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]


C'mon Convex, the accident happened in Russia and therefore Seanus' reference to a fog machine must've been a joke. Obviously! You know, he was only poking fun of some right-wingers' ideas, fortunately left-wingers never have any crazy ideas. LOL

Now, had the very same accident happened in the US our own Seanus here would've shown us how the US government downed the aircraft and blamed poor, innocent arabs and/or muslims for it. As an excuse to steal oil! From the oil-less Afghanistan!!! Better yet, they'd have rigged a building with explosives and rammed the Tupolev into it. After all, the American government is always guilty of cover-ups, the Russian government is a peace seeking, kumbayan entity. That's a "fact".

PS. Yes, I do believe the official version is correct, I'm simply highlighting some inconsistencies in Mr. Conspiratorky's attacks.

History / Polish Military Medals, WWI era found in Detroit [9]

Not an expert whatsoever. I'm aware of the many fakes which is why something from an estate in the US appealed to me. The "fake" market is something more common in Poland proper, the market for Polish medals here in the US simply isn't very large, at least that's my perception. Again, not an expert.

History / Polish Military Medals, WWI era found in Detroit [9]

AirCorps (which unit btw?) - was this your family's estate or someone else's?

This is my understanding of what this cross represents; to those who have more info please advice if my findings are incorrect.

The inscription reads ""Swoim Żołnierzom z Ameryki Oswobodzona Polska" followed by Szampania, Lwów, Wołyn, Pomorze. Something like "[To] Our Own (Our) Soldiers from America [From] Liberated (Reborn) Poland". Words in brackets [ ] are my own to simplify the meaning of the inscription. There are also 4 important regions for this particular army, Chapaigne (France), Lwów (now Lviv, Ukraine), Wołyń (now Volhynia, Ukraine) and Pomorze (Pomerania).

The cross was given to Americans who volunteered to fight for Poland. They were primarily Poles (and Lithuanians) who lived in America or were of Polish/Lithuanian heritage.

Below is a short history of "Blue Army" which had it's beginnings in France. Remember that Poland was reborn in 1918 after a 123 year long hiatus from the world map, during all those years the country was divided between Russia, Austria and Prussia. Thousands and thousands of Poles had escaped the occupation and lived literally all over the world. In 1917 the US entered WWII and many Poles or Americans of Polish heritage volunteered and joined the newly former army commanded by the General Józef Haller. The army was located in the Champagne region of France (Szampania in Polish just as the inscription reads) and wore blue uniforms.

Haller's Army (Blue Army)

The Blue Army, or Haller's Army, are informal names given to the Polish Army units formed in France during the later stages of World War I. The army was created in June 1917 as part of the Polish units allied to the Entente. After the Great War ended, the units were transferred to Poland, where they took part in the Polish-Ukrainian War and the Polish-Bolshevik War. The nicknames come from the soldier's French blue uniforms and the name of the army's commander, General Józef Haller de Hallenburg.

US recruitment poster for the Polish Army in France

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blue_Army_(Poland)

Meant to say "In 1917 the US entered WWI" and "...Champagne region of France (Szampanja in Polish just as the inscription reads)..."

Sure would be nice with a longer "edit post" time... ;)

History / Polish Military Medals, WWI era found in Detroit [9]

AirCorps, are you interested in selling this item?

good-times.webshots.com/photo/2573308420060718861BNJjCR

I have no idea how much it's worth but if you're interested please let me know.

Feedback / Newest posts first? [9]

Merged: Link to New posts or similar?

Didn't there used to be a "new posts" link or something similar? Can't find it?

USA, Canada / Going back to the Old Country of Poland after more than 25 years! (from USA) [249]

Correct. Long story but really no excuses...

USA, Canada / Going back to the Old Country of Poland after more than 25 years! (from USA) [249]

Awesome, can't wait for more. Whenever I end up going it'll be after 30+ years... Wow, has it really been this long?? Give us more scoop and pics. I was born in Wrocław so this diary is extra interesting to me...

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]

That's fair enough and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'll never watch a lector coached movie, find it too distracting and frankly I think it's somewhat insulting to our intelligence. However, as I said, people who're used to it apparently like it.

Also, I forgot to add China to the list of countries where I have experienced the "secret voice" programming. It's not very common, they usually provide subtitles but I remember trying to watch an Australian nature program while in Beijing and there was a Chinese "lector" who totally ruined the experience so I ended up switching channels. Fortunately (for those of us who don't like it) this technique is very rare, almost unheard of in most countries.

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]


My mom does just that almost every day in Sweden and I'm yet to hear her complain. However, she frequently impresses me with her English vocabulary. She regularly picks up new English words thanks to the subtitles AND the original sound.

If it's too tiresome for you then maybe you should have your eyes checked, maybe you need glasses? I'm not being disparaging toward you, really, that's not my intention. I just can't see how reading a few sentences at a time can be tiresome to anyone??

Not a scientific study but from the traveling I've done so far I think the vast majority of countries use subtitles to show movies/programs made in non-native languages. Like 80% of places I've been to. Then a much smaller portion, maybe 15%, use the dubbing technique. A lector's voice is extremely unusual and so far I've only heard it in Russia, Kazakhstan and on a Polish satellite network. So somehow people manage without this reading dude? I guess it really boils down to what you're used to.

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]


English 0.5 ! I love it! LOL

I agree, I run into pilots from the UK, Australia and New Zealand, no problems understanding them, it's like when I listen to a Norwegian, they simply speak a different, funny sounding version of Swedish... LOL (keeeeedin'!!!!)

Indian and Malaysian English can be challenging but even those dialects aren't too bad.

Yes, subtitles is the way to go, makes you appreciate other cultures more. I don't speak Korean, Japanese or Mandarin (just basic sentences) but I love watching movies from those countries, I need subtitles but I want the original sound just the way locals hear it. Some Stasi dude translating for me totally destroys this experience. Those who prefer a lector's voice, good for you, do what you prefer. However, I wish there was an option to opt out and switch to subtitles for those of us who can't stand a lector's voice. Unfortunately it's usually all or nothing. A movie with a lector's voice equals nothing for me, I just can't watch it, way too distracting.

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]

Let's just call it "the-first-draft" English, shall we? LOL

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]


Is that so? That's like saying Norwegian is better than Swedish, which of course is a bunch of nonsense.
...and if you bring it up because British English is the "original" version of the English language well, the "original" picture box was black and white. It doesn't mean it's "better" than a modern color TV.

"Original" doesn't have to mean it's "better."

Things (and languages) can improve.

PS. Chill folks, I'm keedin' here, let's get back to the subject...

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]


Well, if you want me to choose between pest and cholera I guess I'll choose ...neither. Yeah, lektor or the secret Stasi voice might be better than dubbing but in my view changing actors' voices should be illegal, I look at it as an intellectual property rights issue.

You wouldn't dream of changing the ingredients of an exquisite French wine just because it's meant for the German or for the Polish market, how is this any different?? The linguistic intricacies ARE a big part of any great movie, no matter which language it was recorded in, the original is always best. Everything else is a dumbified, cheapo version of the original. A linguistic fake if you so will.

...and strzyga, if you discard all your other reasons for your preference, don't you feel like forcing people to listen to a "lector" is somehow demeaning to the public? As if they simply weren't intelligent enough to read and comprehend max 2 sentences at a time? Really? Is that where we're heading as a society? What's next? A "taste" lector? Someone who can chew our food and let us know in our own language what the filet mignon "really" tastes like?

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]

I disagree. And many filmmakers disagree with you too. Clint Eastwood went against the norm when he insisted that large portions of Letters from Iwo Jima were filmed in Japanese. The movie became a huge success and I cannot fathom watching the Japanese soldiers' tribulations in English rather than in their native tongue. When I go to a gourmet French restaurant I don't ask for ketchup. Likewise, when I watch a foreign movie I watch it in the native tongue, the way THEY made it.

Besides, I learned how to read when I was about 6 1/2, I'm pretty good at it by now. ;)

Maybe it's the simultaneous capacity thing but I have no problem doing two things at the same time and I enjoy the movie in the original language so tremendously more whether I actually speak the language or not.

Life / Polish dubbing in movies; why is it so that on polish television all the films are dubbed? [135]

An interesting subject, I travel a lot so I get to experience a little of everything, subtitles, dubbing and every now and then I hear what you call the "lector" and what I call the voice from hell. :-)

I like it the way Scandinavia handles it, subtitles only with the exception of children movies which get dubbed. Personally I think changing a person's voice, be it a different language or not, is equivalent to violating an artist's rendition of his/her creation. Many years ago I was vacationing on the Tenerife island (Spain) and got the dis-pleasure of watching a re-run of "Dallas" where J.R. spoke Spanish with a very high-pitched, female sounding voice. His voice totally ruined my perception of the movie series.

There's also something else to consider; not too long ago, while in Sweden, I read an interesting article about subtitle usage in one of the English language magazines. It mentioned that on average people who lived in countries where dubbing movies is very common (Spain, France, Italy, etc.) score fairly low in English comprehension and the ability to communicate in that language. Whereas for example the average scores are much higher in the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries. Granted, since English is a Germanic language it is indeed easier for people who speak other Germanic languages such as Dutch, Swedish or Norwegian than those who speak French or Spanish for example. Nevertheless, I think listening to a foreign language while reading subtitles in your own tongue helps a person to process languages much better.

In the US people hate subtitles too and I think it's too bad. I noticed that very often when we're in Beijing, Kuala Lumpur or Almaty and people speak English with a very heavy accent I'm usually one of the first guys in my group who picks up on what's being said. The "no subtitles" crowd struggles with anything that sounds "different". Of course, I have no scientific proof for any of this but it's my belief that dubbing movies impedes on people's linguistic abilities. I'd imagine using a lector has the same, negative effect as it's very hard to follow a movie in the native language.

To me watching a Japanese/Chinese/Brasilian, etc movie means being able to follow it in the local tongue. Some subtle expressions simply cannot be translated and then dubbed to by an English speaking inposter. Of course, the same applies to other languages. At least that's my opinion.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

First of all, I don't call your thoughts BS. The above quote is your opinion based on some high level speculation. Airbus was bleeding financially as the A380 had just been launched and they couldn't afford to spend money on a yet another major aircraft redesign, and that's why they came up with the initial proposal. However they were forced into the new design by customer demand. Udvar Hazy represented just one of them, Lufthansa was pressuring Airbus so was Qatar and many other airlines. There's no conspiracy here, the initial Airbus refusal and the public statements by some of the customers were highly publicized. All literature I've read so far shows that composites are indeed very superior to previous materials being used. I trust the engineers over everyone else, including my own worries of the many "what it's." I'm not gonna get into an argument over why Airbus finally redesigned the A350 because I think it's irrelevant. In the long run Airbus made the right decision, a redesigned A330 could never compete with the 787, the new A350 might be able to do just that. Whether we like it or not most future aircraft will be primarily composite designs.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]


You're welcome and I knew exactly what you meant. I threw the A350 into the equation to highlight the problems all manufacturers might be dealing with. I hope a Comet scenario will never materialize and I'm sure those in charge know what they're doing. You're correct about the Italy incident too. Metal fatigue wasn't really understood back then. For example Comet's passenger side-windows were rectangular and cracks developed in window corners due to the continuous pressurizing and depressurizing of the aircraft. Unfortunately people died before they realized what was going on.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Some purty shoes there aphro, especially them red ones. :)

Yeah, of the European airlines KLM (or actually Air France since they own KLM) is a good carrier, I like Lufthansa and SAS too (somewhat biased lol). Virgin Atlantic is another good one and no, it's not because of the name. ;)

I'd say most airline in Europe are pretty good, haven't flown on LOT but my friends who'd deadheaded on them said they had good equipment and service. Airlines are like women you know, they all have good days and not so good days. ...and some days they just want to yell at you. :-)


Net book?? That's so WWII! lol


Just to clarify, I'm hesitant when it comes to this "new" technology however I definitely don't think Boeing is rushing the Dreamliner, if anything they're taking their time and I'm actually kind of impressed they haven't caved in to this immense timeline pressure. I have a couple of friends working there and heard that even when some major customers told Boeing they'd be canceling orders if B didn't speed things up (787 was already delayed) the management told them they'd take as long as they needed to get it right.

As all new airplanes the 787 will have some teething problems but I think it'll end up being a great bird. If anyone might be tempted to rush things it'd be Airbus with the A350. Remember that when they announced the original A350 the industry specialists and major airlines worldwide lambasted the design as a big joke. It was basically a stretched A330 with new engines, no real technological improvements at all. Airbus didn't want to design a new aircraft because they're losing money already on the A380 with the huge delays (think penalty payments to airlines that had ordered them). Eventually they had to give in to customer demand and redesigned the 350. However, now they're several years behind on what's become a major money maker for Boeing so I'm sure they'll be tempted to speed thing up. I hope (and believe) that cooler heads will prevail.

As far as the safety aspect of this new technology being used on both airplanes (787 and 350) only time can tell.
The A350 was born as an A330-derived minimum-changed competitor to the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and the larger Boeing 777, but was unanimously rejected by prospective customers. Airbus was forced to redesign the initial proposal, but airlines voiced for a complete overhaul. The eventual proposal incorporates major changes, which Airbus says that will be more fuel-efficient, with up to 8% lower operating cost than the Boeing 787..."

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Airbus_A350


Nah, they might be high maintenance (allegedly :) but aren't full of this or that. They hold a pretty common view amongst the passengers and the airlines know it, perception has always been a factor when it comes to travel. Many years ago American Eagle (AA subsidiary) did a study on passengers' perception of flying turboprop airplanes versus jet airplanes To clarify, turboprop airplanes are jets too, they burn jet-a fuel just like the regular jets but they also have a reduction gear box which "slows down" the engine rotation so a propeller can be attached to it. There are versions without the rgb but that's irrelevant here.) Anyways, turboprops are much, much more fuel efficient on shorter routes.)

At the time eagle was flying the Saab 340 turboprops and the Embraer regional jets. They interviewed numerous passengers at first, they focused on those with little flight experience. Almost unanimously passengers prefered the jets. They felt that the turboprops were old, post WWII airplanes (many were about the same age as the jets), loud, (sound levels were about the same just slightly different frequencies), unsafe (total nonsense), etc.

Then at several airports they built a walk way to the turboprops so passengers could not see the airplane from outside while boarding. Basically they walked from a terminal section that had no windows via a jetway (no windows) directly to the airplane. Now they interviewed just as many passengers about their experiences and to everyone's amazement there were no longer any major differences in people's preferences, jets were still preferred but by a very small margin. Yes, perceptions are hugely important when it comes to passengers' preferences.

--------


Re-read my original comment and the one you just replied too. There's absolutely zero patronizing. You totally missed my humor and my sarcasm. I think the dictionary would help you much more on this one. :)

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Pip and aphro - I think my earlier "new shoes" analogy was spot on? ;) It seems like "newer, prettier, flashier, more stylish" airplanes is all that counts to you ladies, am I wrong?

Pip, I would expect this attitude from a Paris Hilton type of a woman but it's surprising to see you, someone who grew up around airplanes to be this superficial when it comes to travel. If you say "I don't care about anything else but comfort and won't fly LOT until they upgrade their fleet" then I'll understand. I won't agree with you but I'll understand - you simply want the "Manolo Blahniks" of airplanes. It's your right to demand what you want. However, I still do not agree with your use of the safety aspect as an excuse for not wanting to fly LOT. It's simply incorrect and unfair to them.

Everyone wants newer but is it really going to be better or safer?

STU - first of all, airplanes are like babies to pilots, the one you fly/used to fly is (almost) always the one you find to be the most "beautiful" bird in the sky. ...and it has nothing to do with our nationalities, I personally know several Air France and BA pilots who absolutely love Boeings and likewise know many Northwest (now Delta) and United pilots who think Airbus is great. It's all about what you are comfortable with and your preferences, both are great manufacturers.

When it comes to new products everything we know is based on initial tests and a lot of assumptions, speculations, etc. I'm somewhat torn on the Boeing 787 (and Airbus 350) which is why I took my time responding to your "plastic fantastic" question.

As you know Boeing 787 - the DreamLiner - will be an all composite airplane, so will the Airbus 350. Composite have existed in airplanes for a looong time but this will be the first time a commercial airliner's fuselage will be all or almost all composite. We get hit by lightning more often than people realize, most of the time they don't even realize it. Will the internal "ground" wiring be good enough to disperse all that energy? We all know what heat does to plastic materials. What about stress testing? How do you make partial fuselage repairs? Is that even possible? On an aluminum frame it's a non-event but what about materials that must cure in very specific temperatures and in perfect conditions? How will the fuselage handle a gear-up landing? How about a hard landing? How do you inspect for fatigue cracks? ...how do you repair them? All those questions are way, way above my pay grade and I'm glad they are.

Many years ago there was an Air Transat Airbus 310 that lost a big part of it's rudder. It happened totally out of the blue, in smooth air cruise while the autopilot was engaged. In previous rudder separation incidents they always blamed the pilots for it yet this time it happened while on autopilot; additionally this time everyone survived (rudder separation is usually a catastrophic failure).

Here's an article about this incident:

m.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/mar/13/theairlineindustry.internationalnews?cat=business&type=article

The rudder in question was/is built of composite materials.

Here are some excerpts from this article which highlight my concerns, please read it all.


Also, please look at the photos in the link below.

iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/others/rudder-sep.htm

I get chills every time I look. Did something similar happen to the Air France Airbus 330 flying from Brazil? It has the same type of an all-composite tail. Yes, the pitot tubes had failed (preliminary investigation results) but had the pilots maintained the correct pitch (aoa probe) and power setting they could've flown without an airspeed indicator (part of our training). Maybe they had inadequate training (numerous newspaper articles seem to imply that) or maybe something else happened? Who knows, they always blame the pilots no matter what. Yes, shorthairthug, pilots get blamed whether they fly Boeings or Airbus so your "Yankee and Boeing attacks" were totally misplaced.

Am I paranoid? No, I don't think so. Would I fly Airbus aircraft in general and now the B787 and A350? Absolutely! I'm just cautious when it comes to composites being use on control surfaces of an airplane and now on ALL of the airplane.

I simply hope that composite aircraft won't become the Comet airliners of our generation. For those who don't know -"de Havilland DH 106 Comet was the world's first commercial jet airliner to reach production ... However, a few years after introduction into commercial service, Comet airframes began suffering from catastrophic metal fatigue, which in combination with cabin pressurisation cycles, caused two well-publicised accidents where the aircraft tore apart in mid-flight..."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

So STU to answer your question, some very, very, very bright people are involved in the design of the Boeing 787 and Airbus 350 and I trust their knowledge and experience. I wouldn't be honest though if I said that I never worry. Not an alarmist but I hope my reservations make sense to you.

----

By the way, to defuse the whole jumbojet debate - "Whale" is the most common nickname pilots will use for a Boeing 747 so a 747 pilot is a "whale driver" ("tamer", "rider", etc.) :-)

A Boeing 737 is called Guppy, but also Pocket-Rocket, Baby Boeing, Fat Albert (C-130 is also called Fat Albert)

B757 - "A-Man's-Wet-Dream" (long legs and big boobs :-) it has a sturdy landing gear and the engines are large for the size of aircraft)

The new Boeing 787 has already earned the dubious nickname "TupperJet" (obviously from plastic Tupperware :).

Airbus (in general) is sometimes called ScareBus. Airbus 320 is the MiniBus, ViveLeBus, NintendoJet, ScareBus, Chainsaw, Grasscutter (the last 2 are pretty unfair names in my view but they came about during the infamous Toulouse air show, and the names stuck).

A380 Double-Decker, LuftBus, LuftÜberBus, BubbleBus, MaxiJet, Supposedly SuperJumbo too although I've never heard a pilot use that term as of yet.

Embraer (regional jets, LOT has 25 of them) are called Jungle-Jets (they're built in Brazil) but also Pencil-Jets and Ultra-Narrow-body (very skinny fuselage).

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Meet Poland's hero pilot

Capt. Tadeusz Wrona, right, and co-pilot Jerzy Szwarc smile at a news conference in Warsaw on Wednesday.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Pilot who executed a textbook belly landing in Poland is being hailed as national hero
Tadeusz Wrona has worked for LOT Polish Airlines for 20 years
"I finally felt full relief only when the purser reported that the cabin was empty," he says
Wrona says he's flown the Boeing 767 about 500 times and never had any trouble

(CNN) -- Capt. Tadeusz Wrona still has trouble sleeping. The night after executing a spectacular belly landing in Poland, the veteran pilot tossed and turned until 4 a.m.

cnn.com/2011/11/03/travel/poland-hero-pilot/

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Why doesn't the quote function work from anymore? Well, at least from an iPhone? It sucks to have to type the HTML code just to quote someone! :(


You're absolutelly correct and maybe it's even somewhat healthy for a nation to have something very positive to be talking about.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]


As Stu commented earlier, real heroes hate to be labeled as such.
----------

Polish Pilot Rejects Hero Label After Crash Landing Boeing Jet

(Bloomberg) -- The pilot who safely crash landed a Boeing Co. 767 on its belly at Warsaw's main airport rejected being labeled a hero as Poland's national carrier said flights from the capital may resume later today.

"Talk of heroes is an exaggeration," Tadeusz Wrona said at a press conference. "I'm convinced that any pilot would have done the same as I did."

Wrona tried to extend the landing gear numerous times after an on-board computer indicated a hydraulic fault. He had flown the same plane some 500 times and had "never had any difficulty" with the wheels, he said.

Warsaw's Chopin airport remained closed after the plane operated by Polskie Linie Lotnicze LOT SA landed on its fuselage yesterday on the main runway. None of the 231 passengers and crew on the flight from Newark, New Jersey, were injured.

LOT is losing 12,000 passengers a day while Warsaw's airport is closed, Pirog said. Most financial costs from yesterday's events are covered by insurance, he added. The airport services about 400 flights and transports 25,000 passengers daily, airport spokesman Przemyslaw Przybylski said.

"This is all part of a pilot's training, but they knew the routine, the airport was ready and everybody walked away, which is how you measure the success of these things," said David Learmount, a former Royal Air Force pilot and safety editor at Flight International magazine. "It's a rare event. You could fly every day of your life and it wouldn't happen."

businessweek.com/news/2011-11-02/polish-pilot-rejects-hero-label-after-crash-landing-boeing-jet.html

History / 1937 travel brochure for Poland [15]

Good deal, see you then. :)

History / 1937 travel brochure for Poland [15]

Not sure if it's in there but anything travel related. How to get to/from Poland, how long it took and the prices they had to pay would be an interesting perspective.

PS.
Damn I hate those time limits on editing our own posts.

Meant to say "checked out" and "comparatively speaking" in my previous post.

History / 1937 travel brochure for Poland [15]

Yeah, all languages evolve; expressions we use today might be made fun of tomorrow. My friend's dad who's in his 80s sometimes uses the term gay when describing happiness. He has dementia and has forgotten the "new" connotation of the word.

Either way, I checkout out your blog, the brochure you found is a neat window into the past.

The Polish currency - Złoty has gone through numerous devaluations and even a re-denomination (dropping zeros) since then but today it's a stable, freely convertible currency. What I found interesting was the huge drop in the relative value of the British pound, competitively speaking.

From the 1937 brochure:
"...The Polish zloty, divided into 100 groszy, is worth approximately 20 american cents or 10d. For conversion of dollars into zloty multiply by five. The English pound is worth roughly 25 zloty, a penny is equivalent to 10 groszy.7 ... Cafés usually charge 1 zloty for coffee, while an excellent pastry costs 30 groszy..."

So:
20  = 1zł
$1 = 5zł (today $1 is about 3zł)

Meanwhile:
£1 = 25zł (today £1 is about 5zł)

A huge change wouldn't you say?

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Stu: BTW ... only real heroes don't consider themselves to be one.

So true. Which is why I use the term they so much prefer. Great aviators.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Polmed - just a few minor corrections - in an emergency an airplane can and will dump fuel if necessary (if properly equipped of course), no such thing as "not allowed" in an emergency. You're correct about the jet fuel evaporating prior to reaching ground BUT only if it's done approximately 5000 feet above the ground or higher. Ambient temperature changes that altitude somewhat.

As many of us here mentioned before, the crew did in fact perform very well under the circumstances. Kudos to them all. I bet the crew would find the "best pilots in the world" hurrahs somewhat embarassing but whatever suits your boat.

As far as Cat II approaches - yes, those are pretty standard approaches worldwide. I'll have to dig through my charts but I'm fairly certain Warszawa has cat IIIB approaches (much better than II) which basically allows us to land with practically no visibility. Most larger airports have those.

Smolensk - I'd much rather leave it out of here but just re-read the very last sentence in your own comment starting with "if the same conditions..." and focus on the word "given". As a captain (or commander when on a mil mission) nothing can be "given" to me. I can and very often refuse ATC's requests. I won't spoil this thread with any more comments on that subject. This is a great thread, please let's keep it that way. Let's leave out nationalism and focus on professionalism. Much appreciated.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Ed - I hate comparisons, it's not fair to the pilots involved and frankly somewhat hard to measure. Hudson River - minutes to make a potentially fatal decision followed by a water landing (they've ran the very same scenario in the simulator trying to glide back to the airport - they wouldn't have made it.) Warszawa, over 7 hours of preparations (if the reports of early gear/hydraulic system malfunction indications are true) but a much heavier aircraft. I'd say both crews performed very well under stress. I'd say they should be proud of themselves and they all make us proud.

I like competitions but this whole idea of "our pilots are the best of the best" is something I leave to the pilots themselves. Too often it turns into nationalistic bashings on Internet message boards. Personally I wouldn't call any of the pilots involved a hero but a great aviator. Trust me when say they'd much prefer that title. I went to a seminar with Sully where he said he hated being called a hero. He understood people's need for a hero but felt the title belonged to those in the military risking their lives each and every day. He also hated the media's focus on him only, didn't like the fact they'd forgotten the rest of his crew. I agree with all of his assertions.

So to summarize my reply, all the pilots involved in the two incidents performed admirably. No single nation holds the title of "best pilots in the world."

PS. Sorry about your fear of flying, it can be overcome with some help but I sympathize with your thoughts based on your past, bad experiences.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

Sidliste - sorry, missed your earlier comment but you're correct on the landing speeds and why we prefer to land light.
--------

Ok, brace for a long reply...

pip: "...boeing sent people over to cover their asses..."
- Nonsense, it's a standard procedure for all accident and all aircraft manufacturers. IF they find some kind of structural damage, fatigue corrosion, design flaws, etc. they will promptly issue a mandatory AD (airworthiness directive) to all Boeing 767 operators worldwide. Again, airline safety is based on learning from ALL incidents and accidents, worldwide. No conspiracy here.

pip: "...I have flown transcontinental warsaw to north america loads of times. I will not do it until Lot gets their new fleet. The planes are falling apart. I have personal experience with this. This latest event is even more reason to not fly Lot."

- Really? Would you please share your experience of LOT airplanes falling apart?? Are you saying they're falling apart because they're old? Is that it? An airplane's age isn't as critical as most people seem to think but for the sake of your argument, do you realize that LOT puts most US and Canadian airlines to shame when it comes to their fleets' average age?

Polish Airlines LOT average fleet age is -> 8.7 years. That's pretty old right?

Or is it?

American Airlines -> 15.1 years
Delta -> 15.4
United Airlines -> 14.0 years
Southwest Airlines -> 15.3 years
USAirways -> 12.8 years

Well, at least all those Canadian airlines have brand-spanking new airplanes, right?

Not quite, only West Jet has newer aircraft with an average fleet age of 5.7 years. The remaining larger players:

Air Canada -> 11.4 years
Air Canada Jetz -> 18.6 years
Can Jet -> 10.8 years

(airfleets.net/ageflotte/fleet-age.htm)

Frankly you probably won't find an airline in the US with a newer fleet. JetBlue and Virgin America are possibly the only exceptions because both are fairly new start-ups. Of course, they only fly domestically and exclusively use narrow body aircraft.

The rankings on the website aren't necessarily 100% accurate as they change daily when airplanes are sold off, leased out, etc. but also because some airlines list their "express" subsidiaries separately. Overall however, the numbers clearly show that LOT's fleet is fairly "young" and of good quality.

You see, there's much more to aviation safety than just the airplanes' age. In my second, part-time guard job I fly heavy 4-engine jets all over the world without any problems whatsoever. Yet the average age of the fleet is - are you ready? - hold on to something -> 40+ years! With good maintenance, upgrades, training and adherence to procedures airplanes can be like wine, they get better with age. :-)

Don't use aircraft age as your only airline discriminator. Just because something looks new or is expensive doesn't mean it's actually "better". An unintelligent woman in new and very expensive shoes might look great but eventually she'll have to talk. Putting blahniks, chanels, or ferragamos on her feet won't make her any smarter. Likewise, a man won't grow wiser simply by driving an expensive car (nor will any of his body parts get any bigger lol)

What's my point here? Well, pilots, mechanics, dispatchers and flight attendants are the brains of an airline's operation. They don't need new, shiny tools to make it safe. Give them proper training, keep them motivated, help them to stay in love with their profession and miracles will happen.

I'm sure LOT has problems like all other airlines, I know nothing about their customer service but frankly that's not on my radar. My primary concern is airline safety.

pip: "I have also flown loads of times in my life. both my parents were in the Canadian air force- in no way would I ever claim to be an expert but I did grow up living on military bases and going to military schools- this pilot knew what he had to do and he did it. there is no conspiracy."

Agree 100% except I'd revise your comment from "this pilot..." to "THOSE pilots knew what THEY were doing."

There's no conspiracy here which is why I find it so surprising you'd attack LOT's safety record right after this greatly executed emergency landing? Imagine a team of cardiologists successfully performing an ultra complicated and a delicate quadruple-bypass surgery on a patient; as they're doing their rounds the very next morning they're being told - "I will never use this hospital again, the wall paint in the surgery room looks very old and ugly, and the vending machines in your waiting room are falling apart! I'll wait until you revamp this entire hospital before I use your services again." Would that be a logical response?

Pip - I used your reply because your comments irked me a little, felt like you were unnecessarily attacking my fellow aviators. Yet my reply is geared toward everyone on this thread, not just you - I didn't mean to single you out .

- I see too many strange, often erroneous assumptions about LOT and maybe even the entire country of Poland on this thread. Not too long ago Poland was withering away under the yoke of a tyrant - Związek Radziecki (Soviet U), she was abandoned behind the iron curtain. Yet those days are over. The entire country along with the 80+ years old airline has long moved on. The transition has been painful, expensive and sometimes slow BUT Poland of today is firmly a western-style democracy and LOT is firmly a safe, western-style airline.

Ok, rant over, sorry had to get it out of my system.

Just my view of course, ymmv.

--------

STU - just saw your question. Let me think about it before I reply. The real answer is way above my pay grade but I'll give you my personal thoughts on it once I get some sleep.

News / Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw) [191]

SeanBM, PWEI, delphie, pip - they were holding while trouble-shooting. Standard procedure as you said, they were probably on the phone (satcom, phone link, acars, etc depending on their equipment) double and triple checking that they'd exhausted all other options. No one wants to bend any metal when they land.

Fuel dumping, although a possibility on the 767, almost certainly didn't happen, by the time they crossed the Atlantic their center fuel tank was empty and that's the tank you dump from on the 767. At this point burning fuel (i.e. flying) was their only option of lowering the landing weight of the aircraft, they definitelly wanted to land with the lowest amount of gas onboard possible. For one, "gas is your friend in the air but your enemy in a potential fire on the ground" but also because the lighter the weight the shorter the landing distance. With a gear-up landing (or ditching in the ocean) it's critical to keep the wings perfectly level for as long as possible, which they did.

Their possibly worst case scenario would've been if only one of the main landing fears had deployed, I'd have rather landed with no gear (think stability during the landing phase) than with just one main gear deployed.

Again, they did a good job, just like its taught in training, my flying career started by flying gliders but frankly I'm not sure if it'd have helped me in those circumstances, the engines worked fine and they brought the airplane to a "normal" landing with the exception of the gear not being deployed. Fairly calm winds and good weather helped too. Like I said, they did a great job but I think they'd be very uncomfortable if they read some of the "hero" comments on here; this was a well planned, methodically executed emergency landing with the gear in the up and locked position. Great professionals for sure.

Also, Boeing sending investigators to Poland is a normal procedure for ALL aircraft manufacturers, Airbus would've done the same. What is it with the hateful "Yankee" comments? Totally unnecessary to use hate toward America as an excuse to attack Boeing.

BBman: It's amazing that the LOT pilot was able to keep the plane straight. In contrast, watch this video.

BBman - although I know you wanted to emphasize the great job the LOT crew did - which they did - your comparison is very flawed. You wanna talk about true heroes? The pilots on the aircraft plummeting into the ocean are indeed real heroes. Hijacked, beaten up, cut up with knives, one of them bleeding to death, they manage to wrestle the controls from their suicidal hijacker right before he attempts to crash the airplane into a hotel. Note that one engine is already dead, they'd run out of gas. So they attempt to save the passengers by ditching it into the ocean, with one engine inoperative and the second about to flame out, while both pilots are being stabbed with a knife from behind, over and over again. The fact some 50 passengers survived is a true miracle. Yeah, some very, very different circumstances.