Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]


Do you know how afirmative action works? I'm not sure you do. I repeat, two individual with identical qualifications are judged differently because of their gender. Apparently you're ok with it because it favors you.


I don't know. I'm arguing discrimination here. You're for it and I'm against it. Apparently this is your "solution."


...and you only want it if it's "equality" of your liking, correct? To turn down males simply because they're males is ok... because "Poland is evolving". Hypocrisy at it's best.


?? I'm lost. What's this got to do with affirmative action regulations? I'm confused?


I'm truly sad Poland is turning to discrimination but I'm even more disappointed that you (not just you but in general) can't see the unfairness in your own statements. - "Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła dopóki ja wygrałam/wygrałem?"

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

I am. But my phone corrects my spelling when it feels like it. In three languages may I add. :)

Anyways, I've said my piece on this thread. I love equality, hate racism and discrimination of ANY kind. Not sure how to reach a racial- and gender- nirvana. That's about it.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

Sorry, dang auto-spell check. Just realized it. LOL

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

The irony is that after some 40+ years of affirmative action regulations the US is slowly reversing the trend. The ban on use of race and gender in some school admissions a few years back is one of the first mini-steps. Europe on the other hand is going the other way, I guess it's like a pendulum, it must swing from one extreme to the other.

Like I said, I whole-heartedly support equality. I'm not sure what true equality looks like and if we'll ever reach it and if it's even possible but, no, I will never support revenge discrimination in the form of affirmative action.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

Seanus and Patrycja - again, the goal is the same. The question is how do we get there?

IF you support quotas then we should apply them to ALL jobs, correct? Each and every job, cleaners, coal-miners, farmers, garbage-, I'm sorry sanitary-workers, etc., etc. each and every job, correct? What if we don't have enough men for one field and women for another? Will we force them to work in those fields? I'm serious, parity, remember? Legislation, remember? Because if you say no then you're being disingenuous.

I mean why is it important for the parliament to be 50% female but not the sewerpipe cleaners?? ...and what number will be good enough? 45%? 50%? There are more women than men so they'll get around 51% of all jobs, correct? Is that fair? What if a company needs 5001 employees? Will one of them have to dress as a man one week and as a woman the following week? ...or will you legislate the company to hire an extra person? A person that company doesn't need?

...and how long will this "quota" system be in effect? In all eternity or until we reach a specific number?

Silly questions, yes, but where do you draw the line? You either support discrimination or you don't. If you say, let's discriminate today so we don't have to do it tomorrow at least I'll know where you're coming from. However if you say that you support quotas but are against discrimination than you get me all confused, I know, all I can handle is computer games, but still.... Black and white...

Aphrodite - totally disagree. The affirmative action is sexist and racist. The goals are noble and I support them. However to say that it's ok to discriminate today because of past practices is a horrible solution.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]


Good, because you're such proud specimen of today's intelligentsia. I'm honored you actually replied my lord.

Mr. "I'm against discrimination except when I'm for it... and I'll belittle anyone who disagrees with my superior view..."

p.s. in case you missed it the first time:

I never missed it, I simply disagreed with your reverse- or "make-feel-good- racism", that's all.
It's black and white, don't replace discrimination and/or racism with new forms of discrimination and/or racism. A concept extremely difficult for the "intelligentsia" to grasp. Ok, going back to my computer games.

Good bye

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

Listen, we can discuss this all day long and for every "what if" I'll give you another "what if."

I'm tired and am about to crash but will say it again, two wrongs don't make a right. One form of discrimination shouldn't be replaced with another form of discrimination. Do you understand my main point? The sentence in bold says it all, that's it.

Forget everything else here and just think about it for a second - two individuals, a man and a woman are looking for the same job. Both candidates are equally competent. Are you with me?

- In the first case the woman is turned down because the person conducting the interview doesn't like women or prefers men for the position. This is discrimination, pure and simple.

- In the second case the man is turned down because the position "needs" another woman to comply with the mandated gender quota. This is discrimination, pure and simple.

One "wrong" replaced with another "wrong."

Again, I'm against discrimination and for equality. It's really black or white here. There's no "...yes, but...".
Discrimination is wrong, period. No exceptions.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

You can "regulate" me to like broccoli, but it doesn't mean I'll actually like it. Regulation is not the answer, creating interest, zest for specific fields is.

Either way, my main point in the debate is - do not replace discrimination with discrimination. Using a "prettier," more PC term such as "affirmative action" doesn't change a thing, it's still discrimination.

So equality? Absolutely! Forced parity? Never!

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

That's exactly my point. Equality is great, no, it's wonderful. Government forced parity is simply one form of discrimination replaced with a new kind of discrimination. Pure and simple.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]


I've said before that I believe the "earlier" Scandinavian model had a much better approach, try to create interests amongst the kids, take the girls out to male dominated fields and take the boys out to the female dominated jobs. Think of it as the "take your daughter/son to work" day just expand it. Encourage science subjects to the girls and give more exposure to arts, social fields, etc. for the boys. etc., etc. Scandinavian airlines (not just SAS but all Scandinavian airlines) for example have a much larger percentage of female pilots than any US airline does despite the fact they had no female quota requirements the way US airlines do.

In recent years the social-democrats of Sweden began pushing for affirmative action solutions despite the fact Scandinavia is fairly equal already. Yes, their approach might give them "paper equality" sooner, a parity if you will but hardly any real equality. True equality comes from within, from our own interests and desires. It cannot be legislated.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]


I've processed your views just fine and until you stop making smart a&$ comments the answer will be

d) you're a dipshit who argues for the sake of arguing

You feel that discrimination is sometimes ok
I feel that it is always wrong

That's about it.

If you say you're against mandated representation than you should never, ever say that sometimes it's a good idea. Otherwise you're being dishonest.

Yet those are your words and not mine:


Discrimination is NEVER a good idea. Affirmative action IS discrimination. Thus affirmative action is NEVER a good idea.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

Well, my reply is really about the question of gender parity. Is it good or is it bad? Well, equality is great. If it means an exact 50-50 in all professions, all schools, all sports, music venues, etc., etc. then so be it, great. However, if we get there by discriminating one gender over another in the form of affirmative action or government required "quotas" then we have failed. We've reached theoretical "parity" but hardly any equality. So I'm not arguing against reaching the ultimate goal of equality but rather against using one form of discrimination to replace another form of ...discrimination.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

All good points and I don't know the right answers, frankly I don't know any answers. What I feel though is that if we as a society stoop down to discriminating against one gender in the form of affirmative action because the other gender had been discriminated against in the past, and often still is, then we fail as a society.

If it were up to me every single employment interview would be conducted in total anonymity, behind a sound proof barrier, with voices disguised so you couldn't tell if it's a he or a she, with names replaced by numbers and a gender neutral interview board. Score the applicant based on one's knowledge, experience, etc. Then let a second interview board select the winners based on the interview + background + education numbers alone. First after the applicant is told he or she is hired should the interview board find out his/her gender. That's true equality, a person who's hired based on his/her skills and not presence of a vulva or a penis.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

Hmm, or maybe you struggle with your own English comprehension?

This is your reply to Zimmy:


So basically you're against affirmative action except when it's "definitely a good idea"? So you're against it ...except when you're for it??

The problem is people like you are dishonest about what they really want, or rather how they want to get there.

Let's see, you want equality, correct? Well, so do I and I've been very clear about that. Both genders should have the very same opportunities. Are we at that stage today? Absolutely not. So far I think we both agree.

However this is where we go separate ways. You believe that affirmative action stinks but that sometimes it's a "good idea" whereas I believe affirmative action is always wrong because it's a sugar-coated for of ..discrimination. Discrimination against women is wrong. Discrimination against men is wrong too. Hiring people based on their gender alone is discrimination and therefore is ALWAYS wrong; there are no exceptions to that.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]


Well, and this is why I'm having hard time discussing this with you. You're basically advocating replacing one form of discrimination with a different form of discrimination yet you're calling him "dumb"? Really? I hate racism and I hate discrimination, in my professional life and in my private life. I have fond memories of dating a gorgeous black lady many years ago yet according to several posters here I'm a sellout to my race? Well, I know I'm right and they're wrong.

Similarly I won't tolerate ANY form of discrimination in my professional life either, including "legalized" discrimination. Quotas or affirmative action is government sanctioned discrimination. I don't care what you call it, it's discrimination. If 2 individuals compete for a job and one of them gets it because she has a vagina while the other one doesn't because he has a penis than it's discrimination. Yes, there's no real equality today and things need to change however you don't right a wrong with another wrong. That's what quotas do.

Life / How many ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN POLISH in Poland? [40]


Not anymore.

PS. Thankfully the tsar and his relatives are dead. Unfortunately the new Russian "tsars" turned out to be even more brutal.
------------


Well, I'm not talking about the current situation but the past. For example, the relatives of the Slavs who are now Muslims in Bosnia "surrendered" (get it :) at one point to the Ottomon oppressors and converted to Islam. Likewise, there were Poles who at one point surrendered their souls to the Russian occupiers and converted to orthodox Christianity. Offspring or remnants of the occupation.

PS. Your PM box is full.

History / What proportion of the Polish population collaborated with the Nazis? [125]

King, why do you want to know? Have you created a British nazis thread yet??

To answer your question: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_Nazi_collaborators

Love / First Dates with a Polish guy who grew up in France [21]

+1

Love / First Dates with a Polish guy who grew up in France [21]


Fair enough, although please note that I also respond to those who make comments about women being certain way just because they're "Polish". I felt that in fairness to us men I should make a similar analogy. Men, just like women can be different even if they all come from the same village, city or a country. Enough about that.

Good luck to her and no, not grumpy today, just trying to be fair to both genders here.

Life / How many people in Poland are atheist/agnostic? [11]


"Intellectuals" according to themselves. Militant atheists can actually be very narrow-minded. Just like some militant men and women of faith can be.

Life / How many ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN POLISH in Poland? [40]


No, not all Poles are Catholics. I'm a Lutheran. When I think of orthodox christianity in Poland I think of forced russification, language and religion (under tsar) Maybe not fair but that's my connotation.

Language / Negation in Polish sentences [12]


Wow, first time I've read it in Polish. Somewhat (sadly) ironic...

Language / Negation in Polish sentences [12]

Strzyga, great explanation. However, yes, you can make the same expression in English, well a version of it, ebonics or redneck, pick yo' flavr
Nic nie wiem, on o tym nigdy nic nie mowi

Now, close your eyes and imagine 50 cent translating this sentence for you. It'd be something like:

I no' nothin', he ain't never said nothin'

Means exactly the same. You're welcome :-)

I've posted this before but here's it is again, Ebonics lesson just for you.. :-)

youtube.com/watch?v=oyxYjl-KR5I

Love / First Dates with a Polish guy who grew up in France [21]

"...or if he was just being Polish..."

Really??
Jayn - do all American women act the same way just because they're from America? That's certainly not what I've seen so far. Some are old school and others aren't. Why would Polish men be any different?? Don't think of him as "Polish", he's a guy, maybe he's shy, maybe he's not interested, maybe he's engaged or even married? Or maybe he's confused? Either way, he's just a guy. That's it. Good luck to you, hope things work out.

Life / How many ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN POLISH in Poland? [40]

Orthodox christianity is more relevant to Russia than it is to Poland. Also true.

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]

Yeah right, Poland and Russia are "brothers" just like Abel and Cain were. Cain, what a great "brother" to have.

Life / Is parity the answer for Polish women? [262]

I certainly don't. There's discrimination or there's no discrimination. Replacing one form of discrimination with another form of discrimination doesn't solve the problem. It only creates future problems as those who are now being discriminated against will end up demanding new laws that will grant them preferential treatment. A vicious cycle. Not to mention the hate and resentment the quota cronies generate. Discrimination is wrong, period, no exceptions, no "strengths in some facets of society".

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]


I totally agree.

History / Polish conscripts to German army [132]

That's horrible. I'd say all you can do is keep him (and her) in your thoughts and be the best man you can be in his honor.

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]

Curious - good question and I don't know the real answer to it, no one does as it's a purely hypothetical exercise. My personal opinion is that Poles aren't different from Germans or from Russians however they comprise a highly individualistic society, one that prides itself in preserving old traditions and does not like to conform to "universal" thoughts of mind. (I'll leave out religion from this discussion)

The murderous "achievements" of the nazis and the communists were a result of two very deranged ideologies, two beliefs that fought and hated one another yet were eery similar if not identical. One murdered in the name of your race while the other did just the same in the name of your class.

Even though there were communist sympathizers in Poland the ideology had to be forced upon the majority of Poles, they never accepted it with open arms the way most Russians did. There have been atrocities committed by Poles, some better documented than others. However, I don't think Poles would ever be able to commit mass atrocities on the scale of the Russian and German atrocities because totalitarianism was then, and still is a very foreign subject to most Poles.