Language / 'much better' expression in Polish? [8]

o wiele lepiej/dużo lepszy (adj)/ lepiej (adv) = much better

o wiele bardziej interesujący = much more interesting (adj)
o wiele milszy = much nicer (adj)
o wiele mniejszy = much smaller (adj)

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

I'd hardly call tagging 's at the end of a word a proper case. Only pronouns really have cases in English, and once you've learned them, you don't ever have to worry about them again.

By the way, I'm curious if anyone knows whether there is any European language that has more declension- and conjugation patterns than Polish. I know Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian have a lot of cases, but I understand they only have one gender, and that these cases are marked by tagging endings at the nouns (correct me if I'm wrong). I know that Bulgarian verbs are super complex, but at least they got rid of the noun cases. It would be interesting to know in which European language you have to know the greatest number of rules to be able to inflect all regular verbs, nouns and adjectives, but I'm sure that would be extremely hard to calculate.

Life / Doughnut [Pączki] Day... in Poland [70]

Feb 11, 10, 20:49 - Thread attached on merging:
Pączki in Wrocław

So tomorrow (or today) is fat thursday or whatever they call it, and I would like to get my hands on some nice pączki with toffee (I'm crazy about toffee). I often find places with signs saying they have them, but when asking they never in fact do. Anyone know of any place in Wrocław that has them? And if not, any other kinds than the standard ones (I'm kind of sick of the ones with marmelade etc). Thanks.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Are you saying Czech conjugation is even harder than Polish? :O Hmm... at least they don't have to worry about pan, pani, panowie...

I only see 5 different classes on that link. Wiktionary lists 17 different conjugation classes in Polish (11 not including subclasses). I suppose if Czech is harder than Polish to learn it's because there aren't as many resources available to learn it.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

The argument "Language A is harder than language B" is kind of pointless seeing as difficulty is a subjective notion. Nonetheless, Polish is definitely among the most complex languages in the world in terms of grammar. At least if you only count "major" languages (I'm sure there are obscure Indian languages that are more complex, like Navajo).

Language / Declension of town names in prepositional phrases in Polish [22]

Gumishu: Oops. That's right.

Ziemowit: That makes sense. Wrocław had a lot of different names over the years I've heard.

Language / Declension of town names in prepositional phrases in Polish [22]

For some reason the stem ending of "Wrocław" is soft, even though it's not visible from the nominative form. Therefore it's conjugated as a noun with soft ending (-iu). It's the same things as with żółw. As to why these words have soft endings, I have absolutely no idea though.

Language / Declension of town names in prepositional phrases in Polish [22]

Thanks. ;) I live in Wrocław, so the last one is easy for me, and I would guess the first and/or the second might be declined as an adjective. As for "Ostrów Mazowiecka", I'm quite confused. What does Mazowiecka agree with?

Language / Declension of town names in prepositional phrases in Polish [22]

As a rule, nouns with stems ending in any of the following letters have "-ie" endings with no modifications:

B, F, M, N, P, S, W, Z:

£aba -> £abie (Elbe)
Strefa -> Strefie (Zone)
Prom -> Promie (ferry)
Zmiana -> Zmianie (change)
Mapa -> Mapie (map)
Los -> Losie (fate, destiny, outcome, chance)
Warszawa -> Warszawie (Warsaw)
Waza -> Wazie (tureen)

Nouns ending in any of the letters below, also have -ie-ending, but with some modifications:

D, T:

Wada -> Wadzie (flaw, fault)
Blata -> Blacie (tabletop, counter)

The following have endings in "-e" with various modifications. These are:

CHA, GA, KA, £, R:

Blacha -> Blasze (metal plate)
Ulga -> Uldze (relief)
Ameryka -> Ameryce (America)
Upał -> Upale (heat, hot weather)
Lustro -> Lustrze (mirror)

Words with stems ending in the following have locative endings in -u without modifications (with the exception of feminine nouns ending in -cha, -ga and -ka):

C, G, CH, J, K, L, Ż, CZ, RZ, SZ:

Koc -> Kocu (blanket)
Waga -> Wagu (scales)
Dach -> Dachu (roof)
Kraj -> Kraju (country)
Szok -> Szoku (shock)
Stal -> Stalu (steel)
Wąż -> Wężu (snake) (notice also how ą turns into ę)
Mecz -> Meczu (match)
Powietrze -> Powietrzu (air)
Kosz -> Koszu (basket)

Nouns with stems ending in either of the following have modified -u-endings:

Ć, Ń, Ś, -, ŚĆ:

£okieć -> £okciu (elbow) (note that the e disappears)
Cień -> Cieniu (shadow, shade)
Struś -> Strusiu (ostrich)
Niedźwiedź -> Niedźwiedziu (bear)

There are several other types of declensions too, but I ran out of time. I guess I should have separated them by gender too, since some of the stem endings differ with gender.

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]


Yeah, the rule is that if anything ever seems easy in Polish, you probably misunderstood it. ;)

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Prepositions have nothing to do with this. You have to see the verbs as a whole. I told you that many different prefixes are used, and sometimes not even prefixes, but endings...

For every English words, you need to know two forms for it in Polish (sometimes even three). If you want to learn the word for "write", you have to find both the imperfective and perfective forms (pisać and napisać). You have to look up both forms, because the perfective verbs can be formed in many different ways.

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Przeczytać is the perfective equivalent of "czytać". The difference is:

przeczytam - I will read (emphasis on the result of the reading or the completion)
będę czytać/czytał/czytała - I will read / be reading (emphasis on the ongoing action itself, or that it's a habitual action)

Będę czytać/czytał/czytała codziennie tego roku - I will read every day this year
Przeczytam ten list - I will read this letter (read it through completely)

Most verbs have imperfective and perfective forms, but they don't always have the same prefixes, and sometimes not even prefixes at all. Here are some pairs (imperfective/perfective):

tańczyć/potańczyć
robić/zrobić
tworzyć/utworzyć
przepraszać/przeprosić
zwiedzać/zwiedzić
zwalniać/zwolnić

Common prefixes for perfective verbs are for example "po-", "za-", "z-" and "s-"

Sometimes the words are even totally different:
widzieć/zobaczyć

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Chaza, you're mixing up everything. I will try to explain how Polish verbs work.

First of all most verbs have 2 forms, an imperfective and a perfective. The imperfective form is used when emphasis is on the action itself rather than completion, and when it's about habitual actions. Perfective verbs are used when emphasis is on the completion (only in the past and in the future, never in the present).

Every verb (imperfective as well as perfective) has an infinitive form. The basic form which is equivalent with for example "to talk", "to run" etc.

All imperfective verbs have 6 forms for simple present. 1st, 2nd and 3rd person singular and plural (3*2=6).

Let's take the verb "czytać" (to read):

Infinitive: czytać (to read)

The stem from which all forms of this verb are formed is "czyta".

Simple present forms:
1p sg: czytam (I'm reading)
2p sg: czytasz (You're reading)
3p sg: czyta (He/she/it is reading)
1p pl: czytamy (We're reading)
2p pl: czytacie (You're reading)
3p pl: czytają (They're reading)

The perfective verbs don't have a form for present actions, so their equivalent forms describe actions in the future (with emphasis on completion).

Infinitive: przeczytać (to read [through to the end])
1p sg: przeczytam (I will read)
2p sg: przeczytasz (You will read)
3p sg: przeczyta (He/she/it will read)
1p pl: przeczytamy (We will read)
2p pl: przeczytacie (You will read)
3p pl: przeczytają (They will read)

To form the future form of imperfective verbs, the verb "być" + infinitive, or "być" + 3p sg. past are used:

będę czytać/czytał/czytała (I will read)
będziesz czytać/czytał/czytała (You will read)
...

Next we have the 13 past forms:

singular:
czytałem (I read/was reading [male])
czytałam (I read [female])
Czytałeś (You read [said to a male])
Czytałaś (You read [said to a female])
czytał (He read)
czytała (she read)
czytało (it read)

plural:
czytaliśmy (We read [at least one of "we" is a man])
czytałyśmy (We read [non-men only])
czytaliście (You read [at least one man])
czytałyście (You read [non-men only])
czytali (They read [at least one man])
czytały (They read [non-men only])

Przeczytać is conjugated in the exact same way, but with emphasis on the completion of the reading and the result.

Finally we have the conditional mood which is formed using the particle "by":

singular:
Czytałbym (I would read [male])
Czytałabym (I would read [female])
Czytałbyś (You would read [male])
Czytałabyś (You would read [female])
Czytałby (He would read)
Czytałaby (She would read)
Czytałoby (It would read)

plural:
czytalibyśmy (We would read [at least one man])
czytałybyśmy ( We would read [non-men only])
czytalibyście (You would read [at least one man])
czytałybyście (You would read [non-men only])
czytaliby (They would read [at least one man])
czytałyby (They would read [non-men only])

Study these patterns carefully, and try to understand the logic behind them. Not every verb follows the exact same pattern, though, there are many other forms. Just remember to take one thing at a time, and don't move on until you fully comprehend something.

There are of course other forms to like the imperative mood, verbal nouns etc, but one thing at a time...

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

It seems to me the only people who actually manage to learn to speak/understand Polish (or other complicated languages) are the ones who don't really try that hard and who don't really care much about grammar. They simply immerse themselves in situations where only Polish is spoken. They make loads of mistakes at first but gradually get better and better.

I've also noticed that black people and Arabs tend to pick up difficult languages much faster than most white Europeans etc. I once met a Nigerian guy in Arkhangelsk, Russia, who told me that he didn't really manage to learn Russian until he stopped thinking about what he was saying and just started to say what came to him naturally. The fact that he had a Russian girlfriend who didn't really speak much English helped a lot too of course.

I also read somewhere that Eritrean immigrants in Finland learn Finnish much, much faster than Swedish immigrants. I'm not saying it's about genetics or anything. I would rather guess it's that they have a more relaxed approach to language acquisition and perhaps that their native languages are more complex. Maybe certain other factors too, like being less "obsessed" about thinking in terms of rigid rules and correct vs incorrect.

What you do when you use multi-language text books and grammar books is that you learn to understand a foreign language from the point of view of your own, and this, I believe, is the main reason why it simply doesn't work. I think that in order to really achieve any success you somehow have to unlearn or forget everything you know about your own language, and try to learn things as if you were a little child who sees things for the first time. I also believe it's important not to spend too much time on the "why's". It's much better to focus on the "how's". Languages are not known for their infallible logic after all, and if you try to make sense of everything you're just bound to be confused and frustrated.

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

You can also find conjugations of most verbs here: polish.slavic.pitt.edu/~swan/beta/

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]


mógłbym - I could [man]
mogłabym - I could [woman]
mógłbyś - you could [said to a man]
mogłabyś - you could [said to a woman]
mógłby - he could
mogłaby - she could
mogłoby - it could

the word for word translation is: "What you could for me do"

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Forget about "ing"! It's an English construction. Think like "I would like to go to dance".

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Chaza, you must change your tactics completely. Your method will never work, you're just wasting your time. Perhaps you should try something like Pimsleur's Polish, Rosetta Stone or the Michel Thomas method instead. You need to have Polish as your starting point rather than trying to translate literally word for word from English to Polish.

I would like to go dancing - Chciałbym iść potańczyć

See, here we have one word with the same meaning as three words in English. "Chciałbym" = I would like. This sentence has 6 words in English but just 3 in Polish. "potańczyć" = "to dance". The English form "dancing" can't be translated directly. Frankly, the rule (not the exception) is that nothing can be translated directly between English and Polish.

What could you do for me? - Co mógłbyś dla mnie zrobić?

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

You have to understand that Polish and English are very different languages and work in different ways. For example, in one of your sentences you translated "to go" as "do iść". Although "do" sometimes can be translated as "to" in English, it has a very different meaning here. "To" as in the infinitive marker is already contained in the infinitive form of a Polish verb. "Iść" means "to go", not just "go", so "chcę iść" means "I want to go".

You should try to read simple Polish texts and analyze them to find out how the Polish language works rather than trying to put together sentences by translating them word for word from English. Not only will your method result in unintelligible, near-unintelligible, or at best, understandable but unidiomatic sentences, but you will also not understand much when people talk. Translating word for word from English to for example Swedish would work rather well since these two languages are closely related, but Polish and English are simply too different.

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Sure.

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Polish and English are simply too different for it to be possible to translate directly in this way. It would be much better to learn the prepositions together with the appropriate verbs. As for "at" as in time, the translation would be "o", for example:

Będę tam o szóstej (szóstej = locative case) - I'll be there at 6.

"At" as in at a place would usually be "na", but sometimes "w" (in):

Jestem na rynku (rynku = locative) - I'm at the market square
Jestem w banku (banku = locative) - I'm at the bank

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Which particular meaning of "at" do you have in mind?

Language / Which preposition for 'at'? [58]

Hello chaza,

I think you're approaching Polish in the wrong way. It's better if you first study Polish as it is rather than translating from English. It's impossible to learn Polish in this way, because Poles simply don't think in the same way as English speakers when they speak. Your sentences would never be idiomatical.

So rather than asking what "at" is in Polish, it would be better to study the Polish prepositions and their English equivalents to see how they're actually used in practice.

"At" does after all have a lot of different meanings in English. There is a good online dictionary at slownik.gazeta.pl that gives quite a few examples for most words so you can see how they are actually used. This dictionary, for example, lists the following possible translations of at (along with examples):

na, u, w, pod, o, podczas, w porze, do, w kierunku, z powodu, w stanie, w trakcie

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

Oh, I never realised it was also a type of district. I always thought it was just some set of blocks.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

"Osiedle" is a word I never really seem to find a suitable English translation for.