Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

f stop

This is where we will never see eye to eye. For me the signing of the "paper" was the most insignificant part of my marriage. It means nothing.

Sure its a legal document but depending where you live there is "common law". For example depending where you live in the Usa. ( 11 states in the Usa still have Common law) if you are in a relationship with someone (and living with them ) for (varies from state to state) 3 to 7 years. you are considered married. And the real pain about this situation is there is no such thing as "Common Law Divorse" In order to separate you have to petition the state you were living in for an annulment. This is simplified of course but true.

Marriage to me means much more than a piece of paper. I work at it.

I think we would all agree that every relationship is different (hell every individual for that matter) I wouldn't necessarily agree that the reason most people in relationships are unhappy is they are afraid they can't conform. I think the reason most people are unhappy is because they don't want to conform because they are selfish and can't figure out it is better to give than to receive.

Marriage used to bind not only 2 people together but 2 families together. Making a community.

Now it has become a joke. Only to last as long as the weakest or more selfish person in it decides they might be happier elsewhere. Any good thing takes effort.

The biggest problem in modern society is that the word "freedom " has become synonymous with " I want"

These of course are subjective statements. I personelly do not believe in divorse. I do not judge anyone who is. Out of 4 children in my family 2 are divorsed. One will not remarry or see anyone else until his ex dies or remarries. The other is getting married for the third time next year. I love them equally.


Yup both he and she chose poorly.


I mean society in general thinks this way. I mean where I grew up. A person committed to one person was called a husband a wife a boyfriend or a girlfriend. A person with multiple "commitments" was called a dog or a slut.


I never said that two individuals can not have a committed relationship. I did say that I think someone should get married before having children. I think it is (I hate to use this word because all the non conformists are gonna have a field day) a more structured/stable relationship to raise a child in. No committed relationship whether it be marriage or not is perfect. And for all who think marriage is just signing a paper .....stay single you will just f... it up.


Is having only one mate for a period of time. I am sorry I am confused as to what you felt was unnatural. I understand not wanting to be tied down. Marriage isn't for everyone. I don't judge my single friends. Some of them don't believe in marriage either.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


When I signed it I made a formal declaration that I wish to spend the rest of my life with my wife to the world and I have taken an oath to do so. The paper part for me is meaningless . The standard is not.

I agree that relationships have evolved no question. However the institution is exactly the same. People's perception of the institution has certainly changed ( and not for the better) Why? Because of modern civil divorce. It has taken something that was supposed to be unending and stable and turned it into a temporary contract full of loopholes.

Marriage is not a church invention. It predates christianity and all religions for that matter.


Not sure what this means?


1. No one is telling anyone to do anything.
2. The idiot who beat on his wife should be in jail. And his wife is a fool for not sending him there. Personelly I would hope she would talk to a brother ,her father, another male friend who would get a group together, drag her husband out back and beat the shoot out of him until he learned how to respect women. My point is he is a jerk and would be a jerk whether he was married or not. Marriage did not make him this way...he went in as an azz and should be kicked in his until he learns how to treat the mother of his children.

3. Bravo for the second couple. Do I wish this couple got married prior to having kids ...yes. Do I belive they would have been just as successful if they signed on the dotted line.....absolutely.


More confused?


Not at all what I said


It really doesn't matter who initiates the divorce. Infidelity is grounds for divorce in almost all cultures including Catholics.


you mean in about a third of it and you are muslim.


Actually in the USA. if one of the parties in a divorce proceeding refuses to sign the divorce papers, the judge will sign for them in essence forcing them to get divorced.


Funny most men feel the exact same way.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Yes the average cost is about $500.00. A portion is expected up front and you can make payments every month. It takes on average about 16 months so that is around $30.00 a month give or take.


An ecclesiastic annulment is a declaration by the Church that a marriage which was thought to be valid, was not legally binding. This might be because of some defect in the consent given on the day of the wedding, or possibly a defect in the psychological capacity of one of the parties.

When an annulment is granted the Church is not putting aside a valid union, nor is it saying that there never was a marriage. The union certainly was a sociological fact, and the memory of it may be cherished, but the legal contract on which it was based was found to be invalid.

Canon Law declares that all the children born of an annulled marriage are legitimate. The unfortunate designation "illegitimate " is hardly used any more, but it is technically reserved for those born out of wedlock, which is certainly not the case in an annulled marriage.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


First I found the statement so ridiculous, I made a joke about it. I thought it was obvious. The reason I find this statement to be so offensive is modern women generally thrive on and demand autonomy. If you are going into the marriage with the intention of "being taken care of" you are dooming that marriage to failure. If women are looking to get "taken care of" in a modern marriage ... I say good luck. It is very difficult at least where I live to maintain a happy household on one salary. The times of the man going out and bringing home the bacon are way gone.

The only way a relationship is "more autonomous" than marriage is in the bedroom.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Actually no, I am merely discussing and defending my position.


Neither I, anyone posting here, or society is forcing you to do anything. You are free to do anything you want, say anything you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the personel rights or damage others.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

When I said a third I was being generous....I was referrring to land mass not population. I would like to know of any christians that are praticing polygamy..doesn't make sense . I wasn't calling you a muslim, I was pointing out that muslims are the only group that polygamy is an accepted pratice.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Only if you let them. Personelly I think you did the right thing. You chose to get away from a bad situation. You didn't cave and get married to the wrong person as many people do and blame marriage for it or social pressure. You were free to choose and chose wisely.


The entire continent of Africa allows the practise which is why I posted a third (land mass wise). Do you have any proof of what you say, I find it hard to believe any practising christian would condone polygamy. What other modern cultures practice polygamy?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Before making false statements you may wish to do a simple google search before making them. If you type in is christian polygamy practised today...you can read for yourself.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Quite a lot more of the world, in the Arab peninsula, in the pacific Islands practise it . These are your words.

I already included Muslims. So your adding an area about the size of Rhode Island. Not an overwhelming amount of the world. I still havn't seen any links regarding christian or Rc churches practicing Polygamy. What ongoing debate are you referring to the debate that they actually exist or the fact that they are in Africa an area I have already posted as accepting polygamy.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Are you sure the child is in Poland. Sounds like they moved out of state. Unless they retained a lawyer prior to moving to Poland (Divorce lawyers are the worst) What state are you in as state to state laws vary to some degree.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Also curious was paternity established? If it wasn't you may wish to do so as it will make visitation judgements easier. Also this is one of the agencies in Poland that may be able to help. It is a bit old but may still be of use.

The National Child Support Enforcement Association
February 25, 2004
"

POLAND Send Correspondence to:
(NY;FRC;HG56;HG73;RA)

Deputy Minister of Justice
Polish People's Republic
AL. Ujazdowskie 11
Warsaw PL 00950

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

The point is the guy wants visitation. Why should he have to shell out a dime if not guaranteed his paternal rights. He obviously wants to raise the child if he wants visitation. If the mother decided to run and has no support system that is on her. He shouldn't be made to suffer because the childs mother made a poor decision. (assuming she has no support system)


Actually he doesn't even have to be identified as the father but just named the father by the mother.


If you have a more current one that would be helpful..... Why is that not a good address...I mean other than that gentlemen may not be in charge anymore.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

There is no doubt a father should always take care of his own. Even if she used him as a sperm bank he should still take care of his obligations.

I will have to warn OP. I am not sure what the laws are in your state but the amount awarded does not seem outlandish. If you persue in Polish court, from what other postings on this site seem to indicate is that Polish courts tend to screw foreigners. I am not sure if she has the right to sue in Poland also, or at least seek an adjustment on future earnings in Poland but if she does if you marry she will be able to adjust the amount if your spouce also contributes to your household. In other words if you are looking for a battle you may lose at least financially. I would consult a Polish attorny to check your options.


Agreed.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]


I think she was. $400.00 per month is a drop in the bucket here but in Poland that can go a whole lot further.

When was the divorce finalized? Did she have the courts permission to leave the country? What was your visitation?

Dude I feel for you. Once the courts give them full custody, you are at thier mercy. As I posted earlier, be careful. I would definately consult a Polish attorny to find out your options.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

On the contrary, the marriage rate in the Usa. has been going down almost every year. This is because people are waiting longer to get married mostly due to financial reasons. Your comparison does not make sense since it does not take into account the amount of broken relationships each person had prior to getting married and the multiple relationships of the people who didn't get married.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Yeah and if you believe that I have a nice bridge to sell you. But besides this, the chances of OP getting forced visitation from Poland is probably slim and will take cash and time. This is about visitation not the money for the child.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]


No offense but now I am starting to really not believe your story. If in fact she took the money, that is criminal and your wife may be extridited from Poland. If convicted you would end up with your daughter anyway. Second if you did in fact have 60 k in the bank you are making some nice coin and $400.00 per month is chump change.


here it can cost $400 for one week max 2 for a nanny. So that is not a bad sum of money. Lets not forget folks that he is supposed to share in his daughters upbringing not pay for it all especially since he doesn't get to see her. That $400.00 was supposed to guarantee him at least every other weekend plus vacation time and every other holiday. Now he has got nothing. Before all of you divorced women start casting stones at the guy maybe you should take a hard look at how you would feel if you were stripped of your child .


You are assuming that this wasn't a scam by the women to get pregnant and use the kid as a sweet paycheck.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]


Your right it was an agreement that the state of Michigan set forth to ensure what was best for the child....... which she has renigged on.


I am assuming nothing I merely presented it as an alternate possibility rather than this guy getting shreaded by most of the posters here. If you have read all my posts you would understand this.

Not sure where the low opinion of women comment came from but whatever.... and by the way $400 .00 a month in Poland is not horrible it is supposed to supplement her income to help with the child not buy her a fur coat and a mercedes. of course that is just for starters.. If he ever remarries (and his wife makes more than him) that amount could double or even triple. Listen I am on no one's side but the child here. I think a father's love and influence can go a long way....especially one that wants to spend time with the child ...when so many today could care less to show up or even pay child care for that matter. (I am making this statement assuming that the OP is not looking for a cheaper way out and is really interested in his childs welfare)

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


I am not sure what your talking about here. You don't pray to a cross or to a statue, you pray to God.

Meathead

What are you George Carlin now? There are many more rules in the Bible.


The point is if modern marriage was taken as seriously as it was in the past it would be viewed as somthing to aspire to not to recover from which is I'm afraid is the concensus of this forum. If divorce was as stigmitised as it was in the past people would not jump into marriage without truly knowing the nature of thier spouce. Dating is supposed to be the warm up, practice for something more, greater.....the "freedom" to leave a relationship does not make it stronger. It cheapens the vow taken to ones spouce.

There have been necessary strides made throughout history which should be applauded. Freedom of religion, women's rights ( I am personelly on the fence about this one :) ), democracy. Civil divorce is not one of them. Don't blame the act of marriage for the short comings of the idiots who jumped into marriage without knowing what it stands for. Marriage is not for everyone and at the same time not all couples should have children. If you can't keep a vow to one person what makes you think you should be able to sacrifice for the many.

Accidents will happen of course and I pray for the children in this case to be loved and guided through life in a positive way.

Love / Living with a Polish man, but he has a drinking problem? [60]


[/quote]
He has never lost control with OP at least from what has been written here. Imagine he sees the errors of his ways and stops drinking. We can all spin fairy tails.

I am sorry to hear about your problem. You are strong and will have no problem finding another partner. I live in a family of alcoholics on my mothers side of the family. I myself have an addictive personality so have to be cautious myself. Good luck to you and wish you the best.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]


This is statement made out of ignorance. The reason most Jews stick together in a small community is because of them keeping holy on thier sabbath. They have to walk to thier churches.. it only makes sense that they live as close to thier church as possible.. Further most of the Jewish people I know are highly intelligent and although may prefer to speak in thier native language, you can bet they knew Polish. The problem with most people today is they only see the stereotypes. If we stopped fearing what is different we would accomplish so much more.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


Once again I am misquoted. I never recommended loveless marriage. I stated that marriage is more than two people being in love ...it is a higher commitment an institution...that in order to have a successful marriage people better bring more than love to the table because love is fleeting especially in hard times.

Sorry OP a little off topic


Only if the relationship is outside of marriage. This is a very right wing statement of the modern Catholic Church. As with any large organizations there will be both left and right views on any topic. Sex in the modern Catholic marriage is no longer only about procreation.


This is generally the opposite of the way things are in the Usa. If you go to a "private" Catholic school you better have money. So I don't see your point.

Every large organization will use a medium of control. I don't believe the Catholic churches medium was unintelligence but rather poverty.

Affluence doesn't breed intelligence...it breeds freedom. Freedom is great but too much of it breeds selfishness.

USA, Canada / Poles and American Poles. What do you think about those two groups and their interactions. [85]


Suddenly no but yes American are much more tolerant of one another than i the past. The 1991 cencus are you kidding... 20 years is a long time.


Are you nuts. America is a melting pot. We are far from perfect and have learned from our mistakes fairly quickly being as young a country as we are. Seems like you are referring to the KKK, which has almost died by the wayside. You also forget that some of this "hate" that you describe was brought here from other countries as well. Almost all Latins hate Mexicans and back and forth.


Well I think the point of this forum is to find out where and who we came from. Although admittedly this is not what goes on here.


Personelly I was on a quest to find out where I came from. I did. I am not sure how to take some of the posts here as most of the posters are not Polish but speak freely about what Poles feel. My relatives in Poland seem to be quite receptive of my queries and have on several occasions asked me to visit.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]

I was under the impression that Poland was primarily Catholic. Obviously there are other groups but I mean the majority.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


Gee do we get bored when we are caught in a lie.


Of course its a political organization. Any large organization worth its salt is. You can't blame Catholicism for those 3 morons. Mussolini wasn't even Catholic.. he hated the Catholic church.

The Republican party is now under the control of the Pope....are you insane.

I got married in a Roman Catholic church to my Jewish wife by both a Rabbi and a Priest. Seems pretty right to me.

USA, Canada / Poles and American Poles. What do you think about those two groups and their interactions. [85]


I don't disagree with you JM ..it just seems that some of the posters are just depressed or manic when it comes to Poles who live in the Usa. I am American proud of it but I am proud also of where I came from. I am not up on Polish politics as I don't live there and personelly don't want to stick my nose in anyone elses buisness. I will visit Poland one day.

I will tell you an interesting story about my father'scousin who came to America and stayed with him in my grandfather's house for a short time. This occurred I believe in the early 60's. He worked with my father for just over six months, saved every penny he earned and bought a car. A Cadillac. It wasn't brand new but was an expensive nice looking vehicle. He shipped it back to Poland. It was impounded. The government official said he must have stolen it because there was no way he could earn that kind of money in the Usa. I am curious if this was a common?

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]

You can't blame The Vatican for trying to remain nuetral. They tried to talk to both sides and promote peace. John 8:7


they also assisted allied prisoners during and after the war. So what.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


My point was they helped both sides. They were just recognized as thier own country. They didn't want to destroy relations with surrounding nations. They certainly didn't want Rome or the Vatican to be bombed which was one of the Pope's fears.

.


How did he bribe them with insults Mussolini hated the Catholic church, he often spoke out against it publically.


I can't argue this point the RCC really left Poland hanging in the wind.

I think we are way off point though.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


As it pertains to its teachings absolutely...recently the RCC made Obama back off from his new health plan proposal. Good job RCC.


But isn't that the point it has millions of followers in Germany, Italy , Britain , France, all over. The RCC could not afford to choose a side without alienating several of its followers.

They would have been obliterated. Thier relations with Germany were already dicey as the Nazi party was something like 60 percent Protestant.

Topic: More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands

Genealogy / Americans of Polish descent. How many of us are on Polish forums? [216]


Curious why after 1919?

My grandfather came here in 1905. My grandmother I think 7 years later. He left the family farm (he hated the family buisness) and went to America. I personelly believe he also left to avoid being asked to serve in the Russian military. He died when I was young and we didn't get to speak much. My grandmother was not well educated and did not speak much english so I didn't get to speak with her much either. My father can speak Polish but never tought his children. He married my mother who is 100% Irish. I have always been curious about my heritage so of course I began digging on Ancestry. com.... I own a window cleaning buisness in NJ and NYC. I have done most of what I can as far as finding my relatives as far back as the early 1800's.....unfortunately the records don't exist prior.