Travel / Tell me all about Krakow! [42]

Krakow is amazing, I loved every minute of my 7 weeks there. Though sadly not really as a tourist.

There are many places to see as a tourist, of course Wawel castle being one of them. Kazimierz being another. My suggestion is take a walking guided tour of the old town and of kazimierz. These walking tours are better because you can ask questions and our guide was very knowledgable. The recorded tours on the little carts are well, recorded...

Watch out for bars offering your leaflets on the main square. We went into one, ordered our drinks then a large Polish guy working there demanded we pay an entrance fee to stay. We politely told him to bugger off and left - never to return. There is NO need to pay an entrance fee in a bar in Krakow, there are many good quality bars with no entrance fees.

There are many great bars that are hard to spot. One which is under ground and had godo live music. I can walk to it but I can't remember to give directions. Explore! get off the main square and look for small alley ways.

As for tight budget, depends where you're coming from. A large beer was typicall 7 - 9 zloty, depending on where you go. Often more on the main square. When I was there, the exchange rate took a serious hit on my budget and I made the mistake of taking travellers cheque and got a raw deal.

ooohh, Babcia Malina! North of the main square - e-krakow.com/restauracja/675-U_Babci_Maliny

You really can't do better than this for real Polish food at amazing prices. Just 10 zloty put enough on your plate to feed an army. Now, read carefully, this can be a sod to find.

Walk up ul. Slawkowska from the main square. Look out for the menu for Babcia Malina outside the door of a large 'official' looking building. Enter this building into a huge high corridoor and then exit left about 20 metres on the left into a courtyard. Babcia's is on the left here. Enjoy! and be ready to use a little Polish - English simply will not work in there.

Enjoy! I hope to visit there again too! To be honest, I'd love to live there again.. 7 weeks was not enough

Tony

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

That's pretty much what I feared. It's almost as if they are just waiting for their leaders to give them the next instruction. I thought that way of life was supposed to be left behind in 1991.

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Not really loaded... and i was kinda hoping you would all tell me I was wrong and I had just had some unfortunate encounters. So I could look forward to things improving....

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

Well, it was an interesting discussion, glad and yet also sad to see I'm not alone on my observation. Maybe Poles will eventually learn about the & P's. Until then, they will just muddle along reactively and doing everything at the last minute .... and everybody else will prepare and beat them to everything.

UK, Ireland / Immigration and Identity: how to keep Polish identity when living in UK. [30]

Well, in Leicester you're in the rigth place. I lived in Melton Mowbray and worked in Leicester before I emigrated to Poland last summer. I had many polish friends there and at last count, i think there were believed to be over 8000 Poles in Leicester alone. You only have to see the number of Polish shops and shops advertising "polski produkty" to see this.

I'm not sure if many I knew did anything conscious or deliberate to keep their 'identity' but most communicated with Polish friends in Polish, watched Polish TV, ate polish food and drank Polish beer. You can see on the internet that many Polish services are available in Britain, from hairdressers to Polish satellite TV installers; all available in Polish.

Looks to me like they're doing the same as any other ethnic groups who move to another country 'en masse'. They are keeping contact with their own and helping each other along. Same as I do here with many foreigners in Poland.

For more help, you might like to try one of the Polish community centres in Leicestershire. A quick googling should return a few results.

all the best

Tony

UK, Ireland / Immigration and Identity: how to keep Polish identity when living in UK. [30]


ah yes, I got my groups mixed up, I mean the same as any group of foreigners in another country. They tend to stick together.

Life / What can citizens do to make Poland a better place to live? [125]


I had a similar things trying to buy a house in England years ago. Everytime I was 'interested' but not ready to make an offer, the agent phoned the next day saying somebody else had placed an offer for the asking price. This happened a few times, it was always the asking price and always the day after. So i always said, "Fine, let them have it, it's not worth more". Again, every time, the day after that 'buyer' retracted their offer...

So, the lies are not limited to Poland.


Oh, I didn't know I knew you....

Life / What can citizens do to make Poland a better place to live? [125]

About 7 years ago, do you really think they're any different now? I wouldn't trust an estate agent as far as I could throw them. And most of them I wouldn't even be able to lift!

Life / What can citizens do to make Poland a better place to live? [125]


them bugger clamped me for parking in a no parking zone... but, this was on a one way street with the sign pointing the WRONG WAY so i didn't see it! The road used to be 2 way, hence the sign pointing the other way... The only consolation was that 4 other cars got clamped too.

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]

I made a Sunday roast this weekend and do it often in Gdansk :)

My friends who have tried my British dishes say I should open a local British cafe...

Greasy breafast or Lancashire hotpot anybody? :)

T

Language / ssać - please conjugate [15]

Wow, that was fast! thank you.
So it is a regular verb :)

Can you add the imperative please? :)

Language / ssać - please conjugate [15]

My girlfriend had a similar argument saying that with my character it's only potential use was, ahem, behind closed doors.

I'm thinking, straws, vacuum cleaners, plug holes... not really many days I use the verb suck. Still it was in this list and I'll learn it. Just a few thousand more words to go...

Language / ssać - please conjugate [15]

a perfective or to 'suck out' ?

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Thanks for that. I'm an ex-programmer moved into management, hoping to slowly inherit a team.... nice to know they like pressure....

But, sorry, this pressure comes with a system specification and a plan :) There will also be a pressure relief valve if it gets too high.


You're quite right with this, but did you learn your native language with you parents saying "this is past tense, we use this... ". No. You learn by copying what they say and learn what words and phrases are in context. Could you explain to me the noun cases and when to use them along with all the possible endings? I suspect not, but if you can, then I sure hope you live in Gdansk and have soem teaching skills because i'll need to meet you. I've known Polish teachers who can describe the tenses perfectly, but barely knew phrasal verbs and couldn't pronounce 'th' without saying 'd'.

As for you putting everybody in the same sack. Well, I guess we are, but we are saying 'on the whole', not 'all people'. We're making generalisations and from my experience, I've not _yet_ met any Pole who is a good organiser. Most certainly not in the older generations.

Finally, your comments about Brits nto knowing where places are or what things are like olives, sadly, in many cases this is true. It was recently(?) shown that many school children are incapable of identifying a vegetable in its raw form. They were also completely unaware that chicken doesn't actualy grow in boxes in the kitchen of McDonalds!

2pence

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Ah, there's the thing... they weren't language teachers? They think tense is what you do to a muscle...

But really, I have a similar thing with Polish natives when I ask them simple grammar, like, why do nouns change and what are the patterns... they have no idea! They just know to say it this way.

I hear what you're saying about not knowing something that we learned in primary education but as far as I recall from my primary education (early 80s) we did very little on grammar. Yeah, I remember once being told what an adjective and a noun were but that's as far as it went. This should have been carried on into secondary school to actually understand our language. Rather than just getting a 'D' on an assignment - how about tell me where I went wrong and how to improve my writing style and gammar? But oh no.. that would be far too logical.

Now, where did I put that tupennce?

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

hehe thanks. I must say, I think Olasz would make a great debating partner and it's refreshing to meet somebody in an online forum who can debate without decending into insults (which frankly shows a loss of an argument and self control)

So, my hat's off to Olasz :) Let's select another topic - i sure need to vent :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

silk ties and suits.... hell, I learn a new fetish on here every day! :)

I just wanted to add a bit here.... traffic lights... polish drivers... a little situational awareness and, dare I say, forward planning will help us all move that little bit quicker on the roads. When you see the opposing lights change to red, maybe this is a good time to stop picking your nose, put the car in gear and thinks may be, just, maybe, that your lights might just be about to turn to green!!

One of my Polish friends in England commented that she really liked how when the lights turn to green in England, everybody starts moving; they are all ready to go! Even the car 10 places down the line....

7 Ps.... I must introduce Poland to the 7 Ps

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


That is exactly my experience of debating :)

Patrycia, thanks for your input... you've added a little life to the thread :)
But if you think that a general observation and personal opinion is an insult, then I apologise to you... but maybe the comments are a bit close to the bone, a bit to accurate?

As for talking crap... exactly, that's what I'm here for :)

MrBubbles... exactly.

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

I thought it was a joke actually after my saying that it's refreshing to see somebody who can 'debate' without insulting.. then came the insults... first I laughed... then i thought maybe, just maybe, it was serious...

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


1. There are not many muslims in Poland so the chances are quite slim
2. The buge black moustache often gives it away.
Now we really are talking gerneralisations...

As for my original post being insulting, maybe go back and read it again. If I recall, (I can't be bothered checking), I finished the post with a question asking for other opinions and experiences. How would it look if i opened a discussion with only a question without offering my opinion?


You've found one that can think *that* far ahead? Wow, you've done good!

So, we'll see where this goes, but, if we really must stoop, I can write a list of fine examples where a lack of planning or even just short term forward thinking supports these opinions.

Hey, I'm bored.. let's give a couple here;
1) My ex objected strongly to my planning our route from central England to Krakow by car. She said she saw no point, just get in the car and go! She had no concept of planning to meet the ferry at the scheduled departure time as we had a ticket that allowed us on only one sailing...

2) The aforementioned traffic lights issue
3) When attending a meeting that is a 30 minute drive away... thinking that setting of 15 minutes before the meeting - and _then_ encountering traffic! (in rush hour)

Now, please, do feel free to give examples of good Polish planning and preperation.
Oh, I have come across a couple of well run companies in Poland... which turn out to be run by foreigners!

kaching

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


The last company I worked for in England was pretty good at planning, especially in new IT systems. They knew exactly what was to be done and when. Testing took place, equipment was installed on time and training commenced exactly to plan.

Then the British armed forces, OK, they have a few hiccups like my cousin arrived in one war theatre a few weeks before his weapon... but hey, c'mon they can plan the hell out of a parade.. and that's what counts, right? :)

Generally, I found in the UK, unless government money was being spent, people were generally better at thinking ahead in many aspects of life. With the brass band I played in, everybody knew exactly when we were playing, where we had to be and when. And we always knew who was responsible for colelcting equipment, organising stores, music, transport... everything went according to a plan, even if it was only verbal, we all knew what was expected.

Matyjasz, you mention public transport. I've only had the pleasure, once or twice, but despite it not being particularly clean, I understand it's pretty reliable... in stark contrast to the UK 'infrastructure', using that term very loosley loosely... oh bugger, it's after midnight, my keyboard can't spell.

T

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Irony dear... something that never made it to America


Who said this was the most important question of my life? This is just a discussion on a forum which takes up a tiny fraction of my attention some days. As for why this question came about, it's because I've met many example of where many (not all) of the Polish people I have encountered appear to be totally incapable of any sort of planning, preparation or organisation. I was wondering if I had just been unlucky or if this was the 'norm'. Unfortunately, some people here seems to have had similar experiences.


Alas, the first part is your american blood, the later, the Polish :)
C'mon, now i'm just poking a little fun.. smile!

Tony it is. Kenny as a surname is my Irish blood

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


The truth was out from the start check my first post where i said "I say 'as a general rule' because I have met some that are good planners and organisers." Would you like me to go over that again for you? :)


However, it turned out that this is the norm...

hehe named me twice... never mind that... ask why the hell I die in every episode! :)

Dammit, is this the end of the arguement? I was just getting used to having something exciting to read in the mornings :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

:) That's fine, provided you dont mind too much if I learn from those that I lose :)

You've still not given us any examples of good polish organisation.... I have further examples of poor organisation if I must...

and you really must stay up later at night, this is torture waiting all day and night for your answers :)

;)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

The mail in the box backwards? Now that is drastic and certainly an issue of national security :) Dammit, I'm too tired today to come up with anything witty.... (don't know what my excuse is on other days) Hope you get organised soon... fight off the Polish side :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

I spoke to a Polish businessman about this last night and explained that, in my opinion, Polish people appeared to be very disorganised, especially in business. I was expecting some defence about not tarring everyone with the same brush, but, what I got was an interesting analysis.

Firstly, he said, "Sadly, I think you're right". He went on to explain that Poland switch from communism to capitalism overnight and that there was no period of rehabilitation or retraining for the new way of life. In communism, he explained, it didn't matter what decisions a manager made in an organisation, everybody got their money anyway, so they could do as they pleased.

Shortly after communism, it didn't matter what decisions were made because whatever happened they were going to make little or no money.

So, either way, decisions simple didn't have any significant impact on success or failure. This was the way of life and it's not changed. Thankfully, I've met many students studying 'management' so I hope that the upcoming generations kick Poland into the 21st century and get organising...

Incidentally, I'm supposed to be a project manager... but my every attempt to keep a project 'managed' and plan ahead is simply blocked by the company president. Every decision must be approved, every email checked... if I think more than one week ahead - that is simply blocked... even a day ahead is often too much... !