strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]
get drunk
Ubzdryngolił się jak świnia.
Which rather excludes sex...
ubzdryngolić się
get drunk
Ubzdryngolił się jak świnia.
Which rather excludes sex...
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / iec conjugation [47]
I'm not sure about the present/past part.
Anyway, there are two verbs:
ubierać (imperfective) and ubrać (perfective)
and the participles:
ubierać - ubierający (active adj.) - ubierając (active adv,) - ubierany (passive)
ubrać - no active participle - ubrany (passive)
so yes, you've got the forms right, except for ubierany, which is spelled with one "n".
pres. acc ubierającypres..pass ubierannyadv part ubierającpast pass ubrany
I'm not sure about the present/past part.
Anyway, there are two verbs:
ubierać (imperfective) and ubrać (perfective)
and the participles:
ubierać - ubierający (active adj.) - ubierając (active adv,) - ubierany (passive)
ubrać - no active participle - ubrany (passive)
so yes, you've got the forms right, except for ubierany, which is spelled with one "n".
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / Usage: Freedom in Polish and in English [30]
inteligentny inaczej
"zakuta pała". Any other ideas?
inteligentny inaczej
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Life / Horribly cold in Krakow at the moment , how do you cope with such temperatures ? [124]
Simple. We grow fur.
Zima, to zimno.
how people adapt
Simple. We grow fur.
Zima, to zimno.
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Work / Polish qualifications, what are they worth ? [137]
I don't know about engineers, but doctors don't need to re-sit any exams, they just need to pass an appropriate English test. A dentist friend of mine is moving to the UK next month, she has a contract signed already. The only exam she had to pass was medical English test organized by some university. Her Polish qualifications were absolutely sufficient to register her with the NHS. Her general English is at decent communicative level. Still, it's a lot of paperwork.
Who speak fluent English, and had to re-sit the appropriate English examinations
I don't know about engineers, but doctors don't need to re-sit any exams, they just need to pass an appropriate English test. A dentist friend of mine is moving to the UK next month, she has a contract signed already. The only exam she had to pass was medical English test organized by some university. Her Polish qualifications were absolutely sufficient to register her with the NHS. Her general English is at decent communicative level. Still, it's a lot of paperwork.
strzyga
24 Jan 2010
Language / iec conjugation [47]
Everything is hard until it becomes easy :)
Szedłem drogą i wpadłem w dziurę. Wołałem o pomoc, ale nikt mnie nie słyszał.
Some hints:
English "up/down the road/street" translates just as "drogą/ulicą". We don't do the up/down stuff.
English "can hear, can see" etc. translates just as "widzieć, słyszeć" - we don't do the "can" stuff.
Dzień był pogodny, słońce gorące (or: grzało mocno), leżałem/położyłem się na plaży i spaliłem się.
One more thing that we don't do in Polish is the "get xxxed" stuff. The process of getting xxxed is usually included in the verb itself, here - spalić się.
What is "naz"?
You obviously still make mistakes, but the sentences are understandable.
the question that was asked was easy really.
Everything is hard until it becomes easy :)
I was walking down the road when I fell into a hole. I called out help, but nobody could hear meChodziłem w dł droga kiedy upadłem do dziura wywołałem pomagaj ale nikt mgłyby słuchaj mj
Szedłem drogą i wpadłem w dziurę. Wołałem o pomoc, ale nikt mnie nie słyszał.
Some hints:
English "up/down the road/street" translates just as "drogą/ulicą". We don't do the up/down stuff.
English "can hear, can see" etc. translates just as "widzieć, słyszeć" - we don't do the "can" stuff.
The day was bright, the sun was hot, I laid on the beach and got burntDzien naz pogodny, słońce naz gorący połoźyłem na plaża i dostawaj spalić się
Dzień był pogodny, słońce gorące (or: grzało mocno), leżałem/położyłem się na plaży i spaliłem się.
One more thing that we don't do in Polish is the "get xxxed" stuff. The process of getting xxxed is usually included in the verb itself, here - spalić się.
What is "naz"?
You obviously still make mistakes, but the sentences are understandable.
strzyga
25 Jan 2010
Life / Horribly cold in Krakow at the moment , how do you cope with such temperatures ? [124]
It was -22 in the morning. Now it's just -15. The inside of your nose freezes, but only a little. And that's in a city, not the countryside.
Anyway, Wildrover, it's good to hear from you. Glad you're still hanging on there.
It was -22 in the morning. Now it's just -15. The inside of your nose freezes, but only a little. And that's in a city, not the countryside.
Anyway, Wildrover, it's good to hear from you. Glad you're still hanging on there.
strzyga
25 Jan 2010
Life / Horribly cold in Krakow at the moment , how do you cope with such temperatures ? [124]
Take care. I've just watched the news and last night three people died of cold in their own flats, 11 outside. This is no joke and next night is supposed to be as cold.
Take care. I've just watched the news and last night three people died of cold in their own flats, 11 outside. This is no joke and next night is supposed to be as cold.
strzyga
25 Jan 2010
Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]
I don't think we need to be told bad things about Russia, least of all by the Americans.
Anyone close to Russia is bad, American say that, so must be true!
I don't think we need to be told bad things about Russia, least of all by the Americans.
strzyga
25 Jan 2010
Life / Polish and Czechs [190]
oh, but we _did_ beat them, not long ago!
(ok... then they beat us... doesn't matter though)
and tomorrow, we're going to beat them in handball. It's our turn now.
oh, but we _did_ beat them, not long ago!
(ok... then they beat us... doesn't matter though)
and tomorrow, we're going to beat them in handball. It's our turn now.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]
This was changed in the 90's; no longer true.
This is history as well. Not with the current dollar; it's much better to work legally in Europe.
Strange. When in NY, I was the only person to stop and wait for the lights to change. I was getting strange looks and it took my American friends a lot of time to convince me that it's OK to cross on red when nothing's coming. I've always thought this to be an American thing; in Poland people just cross the street when there's no zebra or lights nearby, but at the lights they just stand and wait.
Maybe it's different in other parts of the US.
So how do you do it? :)
They like America because people have more freedom, they can own wooded property where in Poland only very few people can own property with woods.
This was changed in the 90's; no longer true.
They like America because when they come here they can earn "dollars" and send them home.
This is history as well. Not with the current dollar; it's much better to work legally in Europe.
When there is a stop sign, you have to obey and stop even though there is nothing coming. In Poland many people disregard the sign because there is nothing coming so why should they stop?
Strange. When in NY, I was the only person to stop and wait for the lights to change. I was getting strange looks and it took my American friends a lot of time to convince me that it's OK to cross on red when nothing's coming. I've always thought this to be an American thing; in Poland people just cross the street when there's no zebra or lights nearby, but at the lights they just stand and wait.
Maybe it's different in other parts of the US.
They hate it when they can't get a credit card in the US when they have no credit history and don't understand how to get a credit history when they can't get a credit card.
So how do you do it? :)
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Language / Usage rules of ł in the Polish language [30]
pronounced a bit like "ow" in "grown"
no, practically you don't hear it anymore
The letter "£" is called... "£".
pronounced a bit like "ow" in "grown"
I wonder if any younger people on PF use the hard £ as their natural, unrehearsed pronunciation.
no, practically you don't hear it anymore
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Love / Polish Girls vs Russian Girls [813]
It still happens but rather with older men and in the countryside rather than in cities. Younger men don't do it anymore.I don't know if it's sexist, but I don't like it.
As a young kid in Poland I often saw men kissing women’s hands when being introduced. Is that tradition still alive? Is it pretty common or rare? Do women like it or feel it’s sexist?
It still happens but rather with older men and in the countryside rather than in cities. Younger men don't do it anymore.I don't know if it's sexist, but I don't like it.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Life / Horribly cold in Krakow at the moment , how do you cope with such temperatures ? [124]
So how's your Internet connection within the snowhole? Will we be getting Survival 101 Part Two?
So how's your Internet connection within the snowhole? Will we be getting Survival 101 Part Two?
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Work / Polish translation Masters in Europe [27]
Go to proz.com and search the forums, you'll find lots of useful information there.
I don't know how familiar you are with the organisation of extramural studies in Poland, but what you write here is not compatible with reality. I've had some classes with extramurals
so I know the schedule. Usually it was 3 pm - 9 pm on Friday, 8 am - 9 pm on Saturday and 8 am - 7 pm on Sunday. The academic year for extramurals started mid-September and ended on the first or second weekend of July, and sometimes they had classes two or three weeks in a row. Granted, the quality of education is still lower than with day studies, but it's not a joke either, unless the school itself is a joke, which happens. And it's not like there are no extramurals in the Western countries.
Dzioobek
Go to proz.com and search the forums, you'll find lots of useful information there.
a student will need to work between 43 and 51 hours per week.
I don't know how familiar you are with the organisation of extramural studies in Poland, but what you write here is not compatible with reality. I've had some classes with extramurals
so I know the schedule. Usually it was 3 pm - 9 pm on Friday, 8 am - 9 pm on Saturday and 8 am - 7 pm on Sunday. The academic year for extramurals started mid-September and ended on the first or second weekend of July, and sometimes they had classes two or three weeks in a row. Granted, the quality of education is still lower than with day studies, but it's not a joke either, unless the school itself is a joke, which happens. And it's not like there are no extramurals in the Western countries.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
News / Poland - Third World Country?? [300]
I believe the second world used to be the Communist block. So it looks like the Third World has moved to the second position now, unless you take into consideration Cuba and North Korea.
As an aside is there a second world?
I believe the second world used to be the Communist block. So it looks like the Third World has moved to the second position now, unless you take into consideration Cuba and North Korea.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Work / Polish translation Masters in Europe [27]
In any case, they need to do the required number of hours in order to get the credentials, so it's just a matter of organisation. Of course if you study avg 10 hrs/week it's going to take more time than with 20 hrs/week.
Which is roughly an equivalent of our liceum, age 16-18. The only difference is that we don't name it upper education, i's still considered as secondary. So I don't see your point here.
In England if you study half-time, your degree takes twice as long.
In any case, they need to do the required number of hours in order to get the credentials, so it's just a matter of organisation. Of course if you study avg 10 hrs/week it's going to take more time than with 20 hrs/week.
. For a practical course (engineering, management, teaching even languages) a person needs to do two years of pre-university college,
Which is roughly an equivalent of our liceum, age 16-18. The only difference is that we don't name it upper education, i's still considered as secondary. So I don't see your point here.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Work / Polish translation Masters in Europe [27]
Read my first post again and count the hours. Without the required minimum of hours these students would not be able to get their credentials, so they are certainly doing that.
The British infant school, age 4-6, is just mandatory kindergarten. Polish kids in kindergartens do the same stuff. OK, it's not mandatory, still most children attend it.
And the last year, for 6-year-olds, is compulsory - the so-called zerówka. So here's one year for you.
I don't know if they're more intelligent, but I suppose they do work more for one simple reason - they get homework assignments, which adds up to more hours of work a day than in the British system.
Please stop patronizing and putting words in my mouth. Where have I said anything about magister vs. Master's? But, FYI, you can't do a magister in four years unless you are doing an individualised study programme. Normally, it takes five years. And yes, I believe that what can be done in six years can be also done in five.
So why don't extra mural studies take longer than full-time studies?
Read my first post again and count the hours. Without the required minimum of hours these students would not be able to get their credentials, so they are certainly doing that.
Poles do 12 years of school, from the age of 7 to 19. Brits do do 12 years of school, from the age of 4 to 16.
The British infant school, age 4-6, is just mandatory kindergarten. Polish kids in kindergartens do the same stuff. OK, it's not mandatory, still most children attend it.
And the last year, for 6-year-olds, is compulsory - the so-called zerówka. So here's one year for you.
Or do you mean that Poles are so intelligent and hard-working that they can cover in 12 years what it takes a British person 14 years to cover?
I don't know if they're more intelligent, but I suppose they do work more for one simple reason - they get homework assignments, which adds up to more hours of work a day than in the British system.
Quite possibly you do, you clearly have no problem in claiming that a Magister (which can be done in four years of university) is the same as a British Master's degree (which is usually done in six years of university).
Please stop patronizing and putting words in my mouth. Where have I said anything about magister vs. Master's? But, FYI, you can't do a magister in four years unless you are doing an individualised study programme. Normally, it takes five years. And yes, I believe that what can be done in six years can be also done in five.
strzyga
26 Jan 2010
Work / Polish translation Masters in Europe [27]
Oh, but I thought we were discussing the Polish education system here. Sorry, that was clearly my mistake. Another one was to expect a to-the-point answer to my arguments. Sorry for that too.
Oh, but I thought we were discussing the Polish education system here. Sorry, that was clearly my mistake. Another one was to expect a to-the-point answer to my arguments. Sorry for that too.
strzyga
27 Jan 2010
Life / Horribly cold in Krakow at the moment , how do you cope with such temperatures ? [124]
What happens around the world at wintertime
+ 20°C Greeks put on jumpers (provided that they can find them)
+ 15°C Jamaicans turn on the heating (provided that they have it)
+ 10°C Americans are shivering with cold. Russians are planting cucumbers at their dachas.
+ 5°C Your breath becomes visible. Italian cars don't start. Norwegians go for a swim in the lake.
0°C In America, water freezes. In Russia, water becomes denser.
- 5°C French cars won't start.
- 15°C Your cat is determined to sleep in your bed. Norwegians put on jumpers.
- 17.9°C House owners in Oslo turn on the heating. Russians make the last trip of the season to their dachas.
- 20°C American cars won't start.
- 25°C German cars won't start. All Jamaicans have died out.
- 30°C The authorities address the problem of the homeless. Your cat is sleeping in your pajamas.
- 35°C Too cold to think. Japanese cars won't start.
- 40°C You're planning to spend two weeks in a hot tub. Swedish cars won't start.
- 42°C All transport in Europe stops. Russians are eating icecream in the streets.
- 45°C All Greeks have died out. The authorities actually start doing something for the homeless.
- 50°C Your eyelids freeze when you try to wink. Alascans close the windows when having a bath.
- 60°C Polar bears go south.
- 70°C The hell freezes over.
- 73°C Finnish special services evacuate Santa Claus from Lapland. Russians put on ushankas.
- 80°C Russians don't take their gloves off even when pouring out vodka.
- 114°C Ethyl alcohol freezes down. Russians are pissed off.
What happens around the world at wintertime
+ 20°C Greeks put on jumpers (provided that they can find them)
+ 15°C Jamaicans turn on the heating (provided that they have it)
+ 10°C Americans are shivering with cold. Russians are planting cucumbers at their dachas.
+ 5°C Your breath becomes visible. Italian cars don't start. Norwegians go for a swim in the lake.
0°C In America, water freezes. In Russia, water becomes denser.
- 5°C French cars won't start.
- 15°C Your cat is determined to sleep in your bed. Norwegians put on jumpers.
- 17.9°C House owners in Oslo turn on the heating. Russians make the last trip of the season to their dachas.
- 20°C American cars won't start.
- 25°C German cars won't start. All Jamaicans have died out.
- 30°C The authorities address the problem of the homeless. Your cat is sleeping in your pajamas.
- 35°C Too cold to think. Japanese cars won't start.
- 40°C You're planning to spend two weeks in a hot tub. Swedish cars won't start.
- 42°C All transport in Europe stops. Russians are eating icecream in the streets.
- 45°C All Greeks have died out. The authorities actually start doing something for the homeless.
- 50°C Your eyelids freeze when you try to wink. Alascans close the windows when having a bath.
- 60°C Polar bears go south.
- 70°C The hell freezes over.
- 73°C Finnish special services evacuate Santa Claus from Lapland. Russians put on ushankas.
- 80°C Russians don't take their gloves off even when pouring out vodka.
- 114°C Ethyl alcohol freezes down. Russians are pissed off.
strzyga
28 Jan 2010
Life / Electronics in Poland - what kinds are popular? [20]
see here
ceneo.pl/Podzespoly_komputerowe
It's in Polish, but you should manage the navigation. Type in the symbols of the part you're looking for or just go through all of it. If you find any item of interest, click the orange "Porównaj ceny" tab on the right and there you have a list of shops and the prices.
The next click is "Idź do sklepu".
Do you know similar online store for computer hardware ? (To collect piece by piece, Processors, Graphic Cards, hard drives etc...)
see here
ceneo.pl/Podzespoly_komputerowe
It's in Polish, but you should manage the navigation. Type in the symbols of the part you're looking for or just go through all of it. If you find any item of interest, click the orange "Porównaj ceny" tab on the right and there you have a list of shops and the prices.
The next click is "Idź do sklepu".
strzyga
1 Feb 2010
Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]
no, that's definitely offensive, as well as czarnuch.
Murzyn may be a direct equivalent of nigger but is neutral, although nigger is (has become) offensive.
no, that's definitely offensive, as well as czarnuch.
Murzyn may be a direct equivalent of nigger but is neutral, although nigger is (has become) offensive.
strzyga
1 Feb 2010
USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]
I've read that four times and still don't get it, what is the country that the Polish citizens don't have but keep talking about? And what's wrong with talking about a country that people don't have? And what's wrong with having the one they have? I didn't sleep last night so I may be a little on the slow side at the moment, could you be more clear please?
I don't have any hatred or animosity towards Poland at all, but what I'm flat out sick and tired of is Polish citizens talking about a country they simply don't have. Yes, you have Poland, but it's just that.
I've read that four times and still don't get it, what is the country that the Polish citizens don't have but keep talking about? And what's wrong with talking about a country that people don't have? And what's wrong with having the one they have? I didn't sleep last night so I may be a little on the slow side at the moment, could you be more clear please?
strzyga
2 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
sorry, but "rozpisywać" is completely wrong in this sentence and it certainly doesn't mean "to keep writing until one's fingers hurt".
"Rozpisywałem do Ciebie, ale nigdy nie odpowiedziałaś." = I kept writing you until my fingers (literally) hurt, but you never answered.
sorry, but "rozpisywać" is completely wrong in this sentence and it certainly doesn't mean "to keep writing until one's fingers hurt".
strzyga
6 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
I'm sure that as a language professional you are well aware that relying on bilingual dictionaries is always risky and misleading, unless you're looking for the meaning of simple, basic words like "Tuesday". From the intermediate level on, the way to go are monolingual dictionaries with examples of word usage. For Polish, I recommend the PWN online dictionaries: usjp.pwn.pl - no example sentences here, but the definitions are correct. Also googling whole phrases can be quite helpful.
Actually, in my opinion, it's quite the opposite:) a good translator must be able to "switch gears", or to switch between thinking in two languages. It's more time-consuming, but at the same time more accurate on a deeper level than a simple word-for-word dictionary translation.
Whilst Ii trust a native Polish fellow translator like Strzyga, how can both of us arrive at two separate (professional) conclusions about the same bloody word?
I'm sure that as a language professional you are well aware that relying on bilingual dictionaries is always risky and misleading, unless you're looking for the meaning of simple, basic words like "Tuesday". From the intermediate level on, the way to go are monolingual dictionaries with examples of word usage. For Polish, I recommend the PWN online dictionaries: usjp.pwn.pl - no example sentences here, but the definitions are correct. Also googling whole phrases can be quite helpful.
A caveat is that this method may diminish translation skills.
Actually, in my opinion, it's quite the opposite:) a good translator must be able to "switch gears", or to switch between thinking in two languages. It's more time-consuming, but at the same time more accurate on a deeper level than a simple word-for-word dictionary translation.
strzyga
7 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
Well, there are many catches of course, but the basic rule, be it translating or interpreting, is always the same: translate the meaning and not the words, and it stands even on the level of "good morning" and "how are you". Different languages use different words to convey the same semantic content, and using bilingual dictionaries to check up single words you are likely to end up with phrases like the famous "thank you from the mountain". It's true that it happens often and not only at the beginner level, and this is exactly the reason why I think that bilingual dictionaries can be more of an obstacle than a helping tool. It's much easier to render anything properly using monolingual dictionaries which show you how a word "works" in the language.
Bilingual dictionaries have their uses but they should not be over-used and certainly shouldn't be the only translation tool.
You've been living in an English-speaking country for many years so it might be that Polish has been pushed a little to the back of your mind and you find English phrases more readily available. This would probably reverse if you spent a couple of months in Poland.
As for the preparation, I'm not sure what you mean, but certainly you must know what you're talking about - I mean, understanding of the subject matter is absolutely necessary, you can't translate/interpret anything that you have no idea about, even if you are brilliant in both languages.
I'm not sure about the translating "into as well as from the source language". Many good and seasoned translators work one way only, even if their command of the second language is close to native or even if they come from bilingual families but were raised in only one of the respective countries. I'm not talking about interpreting simple conversations or translating family letters, but of the work one is doing as a professional.
It also depends on the specialisation field, it's possible to work both ways with finances, medicine, law or engineering, but very very few people would be able to translate both ways things like literary essays, not to mention literature as such.
Neither is a variety of disciplines any proof of the translator's seasoning and worth. The worthy and seasoned ones know their limits and don't try to tackle areas they don't know the first thing about. Business and law often go hand in hand, it's even possible that a law translator is a passionate cook and therefore able to handle gastronomic translation, but expecting him to know metaphysical concepts and vocabulary could be too much. The best ones often limit themselves to one field and do just law, or just medical.
No question about it. But I wasn't writing what should be but rather what often happens. I was not trained as an interpreter, so perhaps I am unaware of the catches the professionals may have.
Well, there are many catches of course, but the basic rule, be it translating or interpreting, is always the same: translate the meaning and not the words, and it stands even on the level of "good morning" and "how are you". Different languages use different words to convey the same semantic content, and using bilingual dictionaries to check up single words you are likely to end up with phrases like the famous "thank you from the mountain". It's true that it happens often and not only at the beginner level, and this is exactly the reason why I think that bilingual dictionaries can be more of an obstacle than a helping tool. It's much easier to render anything properly using monolingual dictionaries which show you how a word "works" in the language.
Bilingual dictionaries have their uses but they should not be over-used and certainly shouldn't be the only translation tool.
Strangely though, I find it easier to translate from my native Polish to English, which is my second language, but I feel that, without prior preparation, some texts would simply be not interpreted properly from one language to another.
You've been living in an English-speaking country for many years so it might be that Polish has been pushed a little to the back of your mind and you find English phrases more readily available. This would probably reverse if you spent a couple of months in Poland.
As for the preparation, I'm not sure what you mean, but certainly you must know what you're talking about - I mean, understanding of the subject matter is absolutely necessary, you can't translate/interpret anything that you have no idea about, even if you are brilliant in both languages.
a seasoned translator, such as ourselves in our respective languages, should and IS able through thorough training, to "switch gears" and not only translate into as well as from the source language, but into and from a variety of disciplines too, for example business and law. Both are related, as opposed to gastronomy and metaphysics or some such nonsense:-)
I'm not sure about the translating "into as well as from the source language". Many good and seasoned translators work one way only, even if their command of the second language is close to native or even if they come from bilingual families but were raised in only one of the respective countries. I'm not talking about interpreting simple conversations or translating family letters, but of the work one is doing as a professional.
It also depends on the specialisation field, it's possible to work both ways with finances, medicine, law or engineering, but very very few people would be able to translate both ways things like literary essays, not to mention literature as such.
Neither is a variety of disciplines any proof of the translator's seasoning and worth. The worthy and seasoned ones know their limits and don't try to tackle areas they don't know the first thing about. Business and law often go hand in hand, it's even possible that a law translator is a passionate cook and therefore able to handle gastronomic translation, but expecting him to know metaphysical concepts and vocabulary could be too much. The best ones often limit themselves to one field and do just law, or just medical.
strzyga
7 Feb 2010
Life / Why so many Poles use a second hands clothes? [110]
Are you ashamed to use the water from your tap? Do you realize that it has been recycled many times, and from what?
Why so many not feel ashamed to wear pants or socks after some other people?
Are you ashamed to use the water from your tap? Do you realize that it has been recycled many times, and from what?
strzyga
9 Feb 2010
strzyga
9 Feb 2010