Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]

The past perfect, (pluperfect, plusquamperfect it's all the same thing) is so rarely used that it can be safely ignored.
I'm not even sure if it was ever a real part of the language or created to facilitate literal translation from French and/or as a useless complication to make sentences and ideas seem more complex than they really are.

I've only heard it a time or two (once on TV by an old author who hadn't lived in Poland for decades).

Basically it's just like the regular past tense you just add an extra by-ł/ła/ło/-li/-ły (which agrees with the subject in number and gender.

making up some (not very good) examples:

Kupił był bilet do Argentyny dom zanim zniknął. He had bought the ticket to Argentina before he disappeared.

Essentially since Poland doesn't have sequence of tenses it's useless and redundant.

"Powinieneś był to zrobić"

Is not pluperfect.

Basically powinien is a weird construction, unlike anything else in Polish.

Basically it's the adjective powinien (roughly, something like 'obliged') plus the verb 'to be'. But in the present tense in the first and second person the 'jest' part of the verb is omitted and the endings are added to the adjective.

Technically from a historical point of view, the present tense of the verb być in the first and second person was two words fused into one (or more accurately the first and second person forms were reduced to almost nothing and attached to whatever was convenient. Then people got the bright idea of attaching them to third person singular jest.

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]

Though etymologically powinien is a plain vanilla adjective....

On the other hand, synchronically, it's probably the only real modal verb in modern Polish. The verbs that correspond semantically with modals in English móc, musieć are just plain verbs in Polish (i'm from the school that says you can't establish categories by semantics alone you need a structural reason too). The impersonal modal particles (trzeba, wolno, można) aren't really verbs.

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

I knew one woman who arrived in Poland after a (not very good) one semester course and after six months was taking (informal) medical advice over the phone. Her grammar hurt the ears but she got by.

Also remember that learning a language is a process, not an event. Just keep plugging away (feel free to take breaks to let it sink in too).

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]


An active verb in which the subject does something (as opposed to experiences something or is in a state). Now that I look it at a second time I realize I made a stupid, stupid mistake. That should be 'all imperfective verbs'.


A verb which can have an object. The difference between transitive and intransitive verbs in English has largely disappeared but it's important in Polish.

In English the verb 'to exist' is intransitive because it has a subject but no object.
The verb 'to create' however is transitive becuase it has a subject and an object
Tom (subject) created (verb) a new kind of bagel (object).


My point was that the criteria for verbs having active or passive participles is different

imperfective verbs have active pariciples (perfective verbs don't)

transitive verbs have passive participles (intransitive verbs don't)


The woman standing on the street corner is my aunt.

here 'standing' would be translated as stojąca, it's an adjective that modifies a noun (woman).


Seeing my aunt sell herself on the street, I almost had a heart attack.

here 'seeing' is an adverbial participle, it doesn't modify a noun but it's part of subordinate clause.


My aunt was arrested for selling herself on the street.

here 'arrested' is a passive participle desribing the subject of a passive sentence.

In Polish this is more widely used as a normal adjective than it is in English. Often passive participles that act as adjectives are placed after the noun in English.

The book written by Edgar Allan Poe. (written here is a passive participle).

Does that help any?

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]

My favorite Polish textbook is the grammar heavy Teach Yourself Polish by M. Corbridge-Patkaniowska.

This is the original book and not the audio-lingual mish mash which is not related at all.

będąc = being, as in

Being tired, I decided to go to bed.

Będąc zmęczony, postanowiłem pójść spać.

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]


I'm sure there are conditionals in the book (maybe labelled as something else) I don't remember if/how participles are covered.

On the other hand she spends time on transposition of endings which is pretty much dead in modern Polish (so you can ignore it! wheeee).

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]


Except that 'types of English conditional(s)' aren't part of the education of English speaking people. Learners of English learn three (or four depending on the model being used) conditionals but it's just not an issue for English speakers (anymore than facultative animacy is an issue for Polish speakers thought learners of Polish have to learn about it).

Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]


a nie Justycho?

Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]

Augmentative.

I would argue that -ch(a) is a diminutive (granted one that needs to be carefuly used). It's very popular among students IME.

On the other hand -(i)sko is a real augmentative (though I don't think it's really used with names).

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

Americans are similar (if not as extreme)

"Would you like some coffee?"
"That's okay"
translation
"No."

Americans are also phobic about giving anyone orders (unless they're in the military or wish they were).

"You know, that's the kind of thing you almost might want to try X."
translation
"Do X! or else!"

"Do you think you might be able to open the window?"
translation
"Open the damned window already!"

"yeah ... I think I might have mentioned that before."
translation
"Are you f**king deaf? I told you a thousand times!"

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

The Polish/Australian linguist Anna Wierzbicka (and all Poles who I've asked have agreed) the polite way in Polish of asking someone you know well is to use an imperative because this implies recognition of the other person (and is not perceived in terms of power).

Impersonal forms explicitly ignore the person being spoken to and are therefore far more rude in Polish.

compare in decreasing politeness:

(proszę) zamknij drzwi = (please), close the door (the comma is important here)

proszę zamknąć drzwi = please close the door

drzwi zamknąc = to close the door

In most native forms of English, things work very differently. In my own USEnglish the imperative is a risky form because it implies a power hierarchy and potential conflict (and USers try to avoid verbal conflict whenever possible). So the politest strategy is a request instead of an imperative "Do you think you might be able to close the door?" or "think you could get the door?" (which would sound awful and probably rude and condescending in Polish).

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Hot damn! That means I'm like an effin' GENIUS! Eat it average intelligence fools!

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


It depends on how you define 'correct'. According to many prescriptive grammarians

"Whom did you see at the ballgame?" is technically speaking correct.

But no native speaker actually says that. It sounds bizarre, maybe a little like pronouncing a heavy nasal vowel for every single -ę in Polish. Also technically correct but no one talks that way.

Probably 99.99 per cent of native speakers would say 'who' in that sentence.

'whom' is sometimes (not always) used directly after prepositions (especially when the who is a relative clause marker but if the who and preposition are separated most people will say 'who'.

Those are the people for whom I wrote the book.

vs

Those are the people who I wrote the book for.

who in the first sentence would sound wrong and whom in the second would sound wrong.

And English does not have a dative case anymore.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

First, as a rule linguists _hate_ the question 'how many languages do you speak?' Linguistics is about studying languages as functioning systems (and some other stuff). (but I'm not mad, it's just a hard question to answer and alien to most of my concerns).

The number of languages I'm really capable in isn't necessarily so impressive. On the other hand, the number of languages whose grammars I thoroughly understand is very high. At one time I could parse Japanese sentences with the best of them but I can't speak, understand (much less read) Japanese.

On the other hand, I think the term 'monoglot linguist' is an oxymoron and I don't respect anyone who calls themself a linguist and who only speaks one language but linguistics isn't primarily about learning languages.

Anyway, I like to rank languages by ability

NAmerican English : 1
Polish : 2
Spanish (at various times Iberian and Mexican) : 3
Esperanto : 4
German : 4
Hungarian : 6

Can read a fair amount but not speak or understand:

Norwegian
Portuguese
Italian
Swedish
French

Roughly at an equal level with thorough knowledge of grammar without much practical ability:

Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Japanese

There are others too but they're pretty obscure.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

How do you know about Navajo?

Yes, from the point of view of any European language it might as well be from another universe. I'm a linguist (who has a pretty good understanding of lots of non-western languages) and I can't make sense of the best Navajo grammars written (not for lack of trying).

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

That page doesn't contradict me:

"the dative case is no longer a part of modern English usage"

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


The problem is that when you try to actively figure out how larger units are built it all stops making sense. Somewhere (in storage in NAmerica) I have a Navajo textbook. It has many wonderful qualities (inluding exchanges like the following (approximate working from memory)

"The police arrested me when I passed out in the mud."
"That is not good, my son."

Anyway, it also includes lots of declination tables but finding patterns is really hard because of massive non-linear morphonemic alternations (making Polish seem tame) but the fact that every little morpheme (and there's no end to them) changes everything around it (in a ripple effect in both directions).

Greenlandic (what little I know of it) seems almost simple in comparison. I've managed to carefully avoid Georgian which seems to be in the Turkish gargle-throated phonological Sprachbund which means I can't make phonological sense of it when I do hear it.

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

I have the opposite problem since the formal/informal distinction is basically alien to me, I have a habit of retreating to Pan/Pani (because I sometimes forget which I use with a particular person). It's especially embarrassing when a person addresses me (and my American brain understands without noticing whether they used 'ty' or 'pan')

Also, occasionally I have the problem of genuinely not knowing which to use (Polish speakers tell me they have the same problem some times). The wealth of impersonal constructions in Polish are a real godsend then.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Simplified basic rules on Polish vocative (there may be an exception here or there):

Male names the vocative = the locative, if you can say "about ...." thats also the vocative

If you don't know the locative the ending is

if the final consonant is hard, then the ending is -(J)e (that is e preceded by softening the consonant before it)

Robert = Robercie!

Ryszard = Ryszardzie!

Paweł = Pawle!

Wiesław = Wiesławie!

if the last consonant is already soft or -sz, -rz, -l, -ch or -k then the vocative is -u

Januszu!
Lechu!
Karolu!
Jacku!
Jasiu! (from jaś
Kazimierzu!

For women if the final consonant is hard then -a becomes -o

Anna = Anno!
Agnieszka = Agnieszko!
Barbara = Barbaro!

If the final consonant is soft, then -ia becomes -iu

Ania = Aniu
Asia = Asiu
Zosia = Zosiu

but if the final is -ja or -ia (where -i- is pronounced as -j-, almost like a separate vowel) then they act like hard stems

Natalia = Natalio
Patrycja = Patrycjo

If the final consonant is -l- or -sz- I'm not so sure, I'm pretty sure I've heard both Elo and Elu and Olu and Olo (I think the forms in -u are more common but I'll leave that for Poles to debate).

The vocative of Pan is Panie and the vocative of Pani is .... Pani. These aren't used on their own though, they're followed by a name or title.

Panie Norbercie! Pani Krystyno! Panie kolego! (Mr Colleague!)

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Hej Ty! works too and also seems to be spreading.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Oh, did I forget to mention it has tones?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Can't say I've heard of this in terms of Central American languages. IME creaky voice is more commonly associated with SE Asia. Burmese and Vietnamese especially have tones that are partly distinguished by creaky voice.

There are many native american languages (N, C and S America) that have glottalizaed consonants (usually written p' t' k' s' etc) for these the throat closes while the consonant is pronounced and then opened (the exact timing differs from language to language). It often creates a distinct kind of catch in the voice, in the case of k' or q' it can sound almost like a click.

Food / How to find Halal Food in Poznan (Muslim food in Poland) [55]

There are not many Muslims in Poland so halal food is not a big concern for many people.

A few minutes of googling in Polish didn't find any Muslim organizations (I think they exist but don't have web pages yet) but there is:

Zakład Arabistyki i Islamistyki (department of Arabic and Islamic studies) at the local unversity.

here's the english version of their home page, you might hunt around for email or phone numbers.

staff.amu.edu.pl/~arab/index.en.htm

Food / How to find Halal Food in Poznan (Muslim food in Poland) [55]

according to wikipedia (caution: wikipedia)

"Whether or not Muslims can use kashrut standards as a replacement for halal standards is an ongoing debate, and the answer depends largely on the individual being asked. While some Muslim halal authorities accept kosher meat as halal, none of the Jewish kosher authorities accept meat certified as halal as kosher due to different requirements.

There's also a whole article on the topic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws_compared

Food / Borscht - Zurek / Bialy barszcz recipe [153]

IME in Poland people buy already soured żurek starter sold in bottles.

The process seems to have been commercialized but I remember it used to be sold in old unsealed vinegar bottles. The bottles weren't displayed (leading me to think it wasn't entirely legal) but any vegetable seller had them.

Food / BREAD IN POLAND IS DETERIORATING [90]

My opinion is that yes, the overall quality of bread in Poland has deteriorated somewhat in recent years. I kind of have the idea that they're whipping more air into it now (year by year it gets squishier and squishier). But I don't know enough about breadmaking to say anything sure.

This is less true in the countryside but urban consumers are notoriously less picky and will buy crap and ask for more.

On the other hand, good quality bread is less important now. In communist times Polish bread was thick and nutritious. It was easy to think a person could live off it and many people essentially did.

There's a lot more variety in affordable food available now and bread isn't really the staff of life anymore (except for the poorest who are paying nutritionally for the expanded choices of the rest of us).

Excellent bread can still be found but it takes effort and it's more expensive. The quality of the everyday stuff for most people has absolutely deteriorated and no one with a memory can really deny that.

Life / Smoking vs. Grilling on Balconies / High Rises in Poland [66]

Since when is it rude to grill on the balcony?

I've seen/smelled it often enough here and done it too and no one's complained or looked at me funny.

Maybe it's some kind of weird Krakus thing?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

chauduyphanvu,

maybe you'll be interested in this:

wietnam-polska.wikidot.com/

Work / Advice on Teaching English in Poland [709]

What I did (when I still did private lessons):

First, I always framed the interaction so that I wasn't attempting to obtain their business, they were attempting to obtain, and keep, my services.

Second, I told them my cancelation policy. (This was before the days of cellphones): Let me know X number of hours ahead of time or you're liable the money and further lessons will depend on being paid for the cancelled lesson. There was no negotiation here, just me setting out the conditions which they were free to accept or reject.

Third, I was a little .... lax in enforcement, which is expected here culturally. If a good customer, and good student, uncharacteristically cancelled I didn't dun them for money and might even turn down offers to pay "this time". If a flake who wasn't a good learner cancelled at the last minute, then I just didn't contact them again, _they_ had to contact _me_ which put things on a whole different ground.

A couple of extras:

Being able to speak Polish helps in finding and keeping private students; no matter what they say Polish students are reassured by a teacher who speaks Polish and tend to trust them more (in my case - native English speaker with no Polish family - it also served as proof that I knew something about language learning).

Also switching from Polish to English was a clear signal that the lesson had begun and switching back to Polish was a clear signal that the lesson was over. I wasn't a clock watcher in private lessons and was generous with time when I was there but when I was done, I was done.

Not caring about whether you gain or lose any particular student helps maintain a professional attitude. Learners are not reassured by a teacher who seems desperate for their business.

Food / Chinese restaurant / takeaway / supermarket Poznan [7]

Takeaway/delivery isn't generally a big deal here.

About the best Asian food in Poznan is a small Viet-Chinese place on Szamarzewskiego street, not too far from Rynek Jeżycki.