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Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]
formerly ProudPoleAmerdon't attempt to tell people that it is the right Polish word - because it's not.
Oh, I wouldn't dream of it! (Not that anyone in my family would care, anyway.) You are a very strong defender of the purity of the Polish language, considering you're not even Polish, nor do you speak Polish (not very well, anyway, according to your profile). Why is that, if you don't mind my asking?
shame on the immigrants for not even using their own language correctly
You just said they were "uneducated peasants!" How could they be expected to use their language correctly? They probably didn't even
know the correct word for grandmother.
It's the dialect of uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic.
It more than likely came from some dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian and somehow "stuck" among the Polish immigrant community in America.
Okay, let me see if I understand what you are saying:
- There is a Polish-American dialect.
- It likely came from a dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian.
- The "uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic" brought it to America with them.
- Let us take a look at each item and try to determine if it is true:
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There is a Polish-American dialect. - Well, a native Polish speaker would have to listen in on a conversation in a Polish-American home or place of business (where Polish is spoken) to determine the veracity of this statment. Or, we could ask a linguist, I suppose. I think given the fact that many different words are used for grandmother in Polish-American as opposed to the correct word being "Babcia" in Polish (and there are sure to be many other words like this), it is safe to assume that there is indeed a Polish-American dialect.
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It likely came from a dialect in the East that was heavily influenced by Russian. - Whoa, now horsie! How did you make the jump from the fact that there is a Polish-American dialect to the idea that it likely came from a dialect in the East that was influenced by Russian? Is it just because Busia and Babushka (the Russian word for grandmother) are similar words? You obviously can't base a theory on just one word. Hmmm, if the Polish-American dialect was influenced by this dialect in the East, one could go to the East and study the dialect of the people there. Then go to America and study the Polish-American dialect there, and see if there are any similarities. Then your theory might be proven (or not). Without any proof, however, it is just a bunch of hot air.
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The "uneducated peasants who had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic" brought it to America with them.- Okay, there are some major problems with this statement. First, how do you know ALL the immigrants were uneducated peasants? We need proof to believe this. Second, how do you know they had no ability to succeed in the 2nd Polish Republic? Do you have a list of all the immigrants' occupations? Third, and this is a BIGGIE, not all the immigrants came to America during the 2nd Polish Republic! (I presume you mean between the years 1918 - 1939.) In fact, the majority of them did not come during this time. My grandparents came to the US in the early 1900's.
It's no surprise that many of the American-Polish words are from people who lived in the Russian part of occupied Poland - essentially, peasants.
Once again, where is your proof? Do you have census records or anything? Have you visited Polish-Americans in the USA? Have you ever even
been to the USA? My grandparents were from the Austrian-occupied part of Poland (southeast/south-central).
