Genealogy / The typical Polish look, or all Eastern Europeans [656]

Yes, I am similar. I have Polish genes through my maternal grandmother. My maternal grandfather was Hungarian. My grandmother was short stature, slim, with very dark hair, a small face with high cheekbones, and small, deep-set eyes. She had a slight olive tone to her, and so do I. I posted a picture of myself on the "Do I look Polish" thread. I also am small stature, about 165 centimenters (5'4 and 1/2 inches), have an hour-glass figure, but am not bony, and have a good waist to hip ratio with a S-Curve and round butt. I have gathered that this is also an East European or Slavic look. I also am currently being checked for a possible hypothyroid issue and do best on a homemade diet of potatoes and meat; can't do a lot of grains. I thought I couldn't drink for years because I would get horribly hung over with just one or two beers, and then switched to Vodka and found I could drink like a fish, lol.

The Hungarians are not Slavic. And BTW, to the gentlemen a few posts back, Hungarians are most definitely related to Finns. They are called Finno-Ugric, and both originate from deep within the Ural Mountains, on the Siberian Plateau.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/finno-ugrics

Finno-Ugric

Main Entry:
Fin·no-Ugric Listen to the pronunciation of Finno-Ugric
Pronunciation:
\ˌfi-nō-ˈ(y)ü-grik\
Function:
adjective
Date:
1879

1 : of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Uralic family of languages comprising various languages spoken in Hungary, Lapland, Finland, Estonia, and parts of western Russia 2 : of or relating to any of the peoples speaking Finno-Ugric languages

- Finno-Ugric noun


I should qualify the above statement. Hungarians and Finns are co-related groups, I guess. They are both of the Finno-Ugric linguistic group of people, but Hungarians are thought to originate in lands farther east in Siberia than the Finns. The Finns first arose in the Northern areas between Norway and the Ural Mountains, whereas the Hungarians spanned beyond. But there is definitely a historical connection between them and their language, which is why linguistically they both resemble each other more than the Finns do the Scandinavians and the Hungarians do the Slavs.

Genealogy / The typical Polish look, or all Eastern Europeans [656]

Hi Osiol:

Thanks for the discussion. As I understand it, distance had little to do with the migration/movement of people and tribes of the Siberian Plateau and Steppes. It certainly didn't stop the multiple tribes and confederations that rampaged from the East to challenge the West, such as Attila the Hun in Gaul and Italy, the Avars, and Genghis Khan. I know the migration of nomadic herding tribes are different, but the grassy plains of the Steppes obviously weren't a hindrance for the movement of successive waves of multiple tribes and multi-ethnic confederations from the vicinity of the Ural and Altai Mountains.

You are right about the Ob-Ugrians, who are the closest linguistic relations to the Finno-Ugric language; they are the modern indigenous Khanti-Mansi people of the Autonomous Okrug administrative region of Russia. There are various competing theories about the origins of Magyars and the beginning of their kingdom, but I have never come across any accounts which argue against their Finno-Ugric origins in the Ural Mountains, which may have later combined with other tribes from the Altais.

At any rate, there is no doubt that the original Magyars were a blend of these tribes and multi-ethnic confederations. There is also no doubt that the Slavic languages surrounding them are different. Matters of statehood and geopolitical dominance do not necessarily explain ethnic origin, although I agree that all of Central and Eastern Europe - and Western Europe for that matter - were mixed. I would also argue that your example of the shared English language between Irish and English also supports my point -geopolitical domination has very little to do with ethnic origins and identity. In the case of the origin of early Magyars, however, it wasn't about domination but migration. And the fact that the surrounding states who were once part of the Magyar Empire still speak completely different languages nullifies your example further.

Not that I doubt there are alternative and contradicting theories, I just don't think the example of distance as an argument in this case is relevant. I am still learning about the various alternative theories, but I think I am leaning toward the theory that there were two significant migrations of the original Magyars.

I have to run, but I will find some links later. Sorry if I am boring others with this discussion.

Genealogy / Do Polish people have big noses? [450]

I don't know, but I've been reading up on Polish history, and there seems to be an explanation for big noses as a genetic trait. I have also been reading up on Hungarian history, because I am part Polish and Hungarian.

Apparently, Poland had a Samaritian connection. Samartia was one of the ancient tribes during the time of the Scythians, with origins from the Caucasus and Iran. Their history mixed with that of the Slavics and Tartars who became part of the early settlement and kingdom of Poland. In fact, there was a belief that the Polish nobility descended from Samaritians, which is why they wore Samaritian clothing. I found a link yesterday which I can no longer find today, which is very frustrating.

Anyway, I have been researching my ethnic roots via Poland and Hungary, and it has led me on a never-ending expedition through Central Asia and Indigenous Siberia, on both sides, including Poland! Who are the Slavs, who are the Samaritians, who are the Tatars, the Huns and Magyars,with whom Poland, the Slavic nation, had a natural and unbreakable bond that exists to this day despite the surrounding hatred that other Slav nations have for Hungary? Yes, I know about the history of shared nobility and friendship, but think about that for a second. Is it possible that there was a history of tribal friendship or alliance even before the task of building a kingdom, that reached back to Central Asia? Anyway, it's interesting. Researching the history of Eastern Europe will be a life-long pursuit, because there are no easy or readily-available answers.

One thing for sure, though, that area of the world was the fault line between East and West, and no amount of denial is going to change it. It seems as if multi-ethnic tribes and mixing existed since time began in Eurasia, which is essentially what we are talking about when we discuss Eastern Europe and the ancient tribes who are still visible on the faces of the present population.

I am proud to be part Polish and Hungarian, and of the mixed ethic roots of the region from time immemorial. In terms of the Hungarian and Baltic connection, it seems impossible to figure out when precisely the first tribes in the Urals became mixed, as if they just sprang up that way. I don't know enough about the varied history of the Slavs yet, except to know that they lived side-by-side of these early tribes, and in turn subjugated and were subjugated by them.

I have been told that I have a small "polish" nose - whatever that means, but I do have a nice, s-curve round derriere, and now I know why, lol. Didn't get the heart-shaped face unfortunately. I think I have the cheekbones and small, wider face of the Urals, via the Magyars.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


Really? You should try visiting Bangkok during the hot season, and share a ride with one of the white, fat, beer-guzzling expat men who are all there to shag Thai women. You will soon understand why Asians often think it is the other way around.

Bottome line: body odor is body odor, and it is affected by bathing habits, weather, diet, and laundry habits. It could be that the older Poles live in older flats and have less money, hence cut corners on bathing water and laundry, I don't know. Surely, they are not the only people in Europe with this condition.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]

Yes, such an excellent post, Softsong. You are exactly right. I am from New York, and the summers there are absolutely humid and unbearable.

That being said, I also had to learn how to adapt in a tropical region like Thailand, and in a dirty city like Bangkok. I bathed at minimum, twice-a-day, and during the humid season, 3-to-4-times a day. That is what the locals do to stay free of body odor.

I think people who come from cooler climates are not as savvy about staying fresh in very humid climates, and don't understand that the one-shower-a-day rule isn't enough in tropical environments. When you combine that with some European habits of less showers per day or even weeks, well, you have body odor, regardless of whether you use deodorants. I think dietary factors also compound the issue.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]

Yep, that completely explains it then. It is a case of economics and inferior products. I know from Asia that cheap deodorants can make body odor worse. I started to use the crystal, which was much better.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


Oh really, I'm from New York which is one of the most clustered and proximate cities in the U.S. and I haven't noticed what you are talking about to the point where it becomes a problem for the universal "we".

Do you mind for the sake of argument elaborating on some of the ethnic groups with whom "we" have observed this "problem"?

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


There are definitely some spices that eaten regularly result in body odor, but that is not the same as "spicy" food. The Thais and many Southeast and Northern Asians eat spicy food from chili peppers, and have the least body odor. In fact, to them, the cheese and alcohol consumption among Europeans produce a distinct and strong odor as well. So, the comment of "certain ethnic backgrounds" needs to be specific to avoid being a sweeping generalization, and even then lifestyle is a major factor.

When you compare the bathing and grooming habits of say 19th Century rural Chinese peasants and poor rural Poles to their more Western assimilated counterparts, it is a fallacy to simply discern body odor by ethnicity or race. That would be the same as assuming all Europeans smell because they consume cheese and alcohol and still bathe weekly at the local bathhouse. In Asia, some Europeans may smell because they have simply not adapted to a tropical habit of bathing two to three times daily.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


Yes, I agree in the universal "we" as in we humans, are what we eat, which is then exacerbated or minimized through our bathing and grooming habits. But, this cuts across all ethnic groups, either in cosmopolitan cities where everyone is eating multi-ethnic cuisines of which onion and garlic is quite pedestrian now, and/or specific habits that are cultural or economic. Some ethnic groups actually consume food and teas which eliminate body odors. Therefore, all ethnic groups are capable of body odor, depending on their habits and from which perspective you are judging, but they are not always the generalized stereotype.

It's also a fact that some people sweat more than others, which also lends another dynamic. There are some very poor people on the planet who manage to stay clean and tidy. It sounds like the introduction of the crystal as a cheap deodorizer might go a long way in Poland, as well as sage tea, lol.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


Some of the old European rivalries amongst each other would say it was because of their French perfume, lol. Don't get me wrong - I love French perfume! ;)


I think it is the tumeric. I have also noticed a strong tumeric smell with some Indians who are newly arrived, but not with Indian friends who have lived or been absorbed by Western culture. So, it has to go back to habits and culture, of which diet and grooming are a part, no?

My body odor is naturally very mild, but I can definitely smell a difference in natural body odor after certain strong cheeses and lots of spice like tumeric and onion. But gosh, just bathe, because spicy food is just too good to give up, ha ha.

Again, I'm a big supporter of the natural crystal and herbal tea, but that's me, lol. I still think that the cheap, natural crystals out of Southeast Asia could be a big hit in Poland for some industrious import/export business person.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]


Nice post, Foreigner, but I have to tell you it is not just Western society. East Asian and Southeast Asian cultures look down on people with body odor, and have elevated the concept of "freshness" to one of racial superiority.

So no, it's definitely not just Western society.

Life / Why there is always around a horrible smell of sweat in Poland [188]

Yes, you are absolutely right, and in rural Africa or rural peasant China, water is very scarce and considered a luxury. However, I've seen poor people in Asia who keep themselves immaculate! They think not to use water after a bowel movement is dirty. I agree with ShellyS above, and I am the same. But, I've lived with different people and seen how they stay clean. You don't need a running shower or a bathtub full of water to stay clean. A wash cloth, soap, and a two bins of water can do the job. And again, I think these guys could benefit from a cheap crystal for deodorant, because it would block odors and their clothing would stay fresh for longer.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Turks are originally from Mongolia.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]


Can you please tell me what is that "spot"? I am part Polish and Hungarian but was adopted, so I don't know the folklore around it. However, I have a birthmark or "spot" on my left shoulder.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Thanks DK1. I haven't looked at it yet, but will do so at some point. One question:

If "on the intra-European graph Poles basically sit between Dresden and Moscow, but mixing more with the latter" and it is "the Russians who are relatively closest to the Asians from China and Japan", how can it be that "the Poles' affinity to the Asians is rather weak in comparison to that shown by most of the other European groups" if we are mixed more with Moscow?

I will attempt to answer my own question: Is it because Moscow is of a different history and mixture than St. Petersburg and Northern Russia? At any rate, given history, I personally find the conclusion that the "Poles affinity to the Asians is rather weak" when Russia's is strong rather weak itself.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Thanks DK1. I will take a closer and more thorough look as promised. I am part Hungarian and part Polish, so I guess my genetic mix would push me closer to the Russians. I understand what you are saying about history and the genetic samples, but that doesn't mean a scientific study is without bias. I still find it hard to believe, but I will explore it further.

*edit: By the way, people on this thread seem to know a lot about genetics and I want to have a DNA test. I am adopted, and it is important to me to know my full ethnic heritage. I am female, and want to know the full ancestry from both mother and father. I live in South Korea right now, so I need a test that can be available anywhere.

Any suggestions?

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Thanks DK1. I took a look at your website and the study looks quite extensive. I'm sure I will be on there lots. I don't know much about genetics and DNA studies, so I have some reading up to do.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Yes, that is a beautiful sentiment Crazy Horse. I am always pure of heart, but it is important to me to understand fully who I am and where I came from.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]


Some indigenous Uralic people are part Asian or Eurasian to be exact. The indigenous tribes in Siberia on either side of the Urals will attest to this fact. The tribes farthest east look completely Asian and similar to Koreans, whereas the tribes in the center and on the western side looked typically Eurasian, and still do. The group that I think you are referring to in Northern Scandanavia are the Sami. I agree that many look mostly European but they also seem to have similar genetic markers as many other Finno-Ugrics, that display a link to other Eurasian Indigenous tribes and people from the other side of the Urals, such as Hungarians.

In terms of Poland, I am also one to believe that there is an Asian link, and I don't think it is as cut and dry as you present it here. As you said previously, history is filled with imprecisions and science is precise, but science can also be filled with both intentional and unintentional biases.

Genealogy / Are all Poles blue eyed and blonde? [450]


Yeah, I have been told by all kinds of people that I have an Asian eye shape, including Asians themselves. I think it comes from my Eastern European heritage, but whether from Poland or Hungary I don't know.

This thread is so incredbily helpful for me. I have medium brown hair and greenish-blueish-grayish eyes. My Polish grandmother had dark hair and light eyes.

Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]


That's funny, because I recognize myself in these descriptions as well. I have a fuller lower lip and almost no upper lip, except when I smile.

Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]

Yeah, but I don't know anymore. I have been trying to do research on my roots, but I really don't know where it is taking me. My maternal (Polish) grandmother's name: Kapushka, from somewhere near the Carpathian Mountains. My maternal grandfather's name was Bartok (Hungarian). I am speculating that the maternal grandmother could have been from what is now the Ukraine, based on her Russian last name, and how she looked (small, dark hair, small face with high cheekbones, small, deep set eyes, that I think were dark or light, or light brown (can't tell from the photo). I am speculating that maybe she was a Boyko Goral or Rusyn, but I don't know. If anyone has information on the name Kapushka in 19th Century Trans-Carpathians, it would be appreciated. I'm adopted, which is why this is like finding missing pieces of a jigsaw puzzle for me.

Anyway, here are a couple of photos of me:

• 
  meaqua.jpg
  
• 
  Tanoh_Lot_me.jpg
  
• 
  pp1.jpg
  

Genealogy / Are all Poles blue eyed and blonde? [450]


Denial.

Genealogy / The typical Polish look, or all Eastern Europeans [656]


I didn't know this either. I have "blueish-grayish-greenish" eyes that change color as well.

Genealogy / The typical Polish look, or all Eastern Europeans [656]

Hey Softsong! Believe it or not, I was thinking about you today and hoping you'd show up. I have been doing a back check on old genealogy threads, and I saw your post with your photo and the background of your German/Polish ancestors.

You've done a lot of genealogy work, and I think I need your advice/help. I will PM you later. I have been on PF all day and need to go out!

Talk soon.

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [417]

What about physical traits? I guess that would be hijacking, though.

I think depression is genetic, or at least is debatable as such.

Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]


Hi Shari:

I am also part Hungarian and Polish, and people often can't place me. I have posted my pics and background on the previous page, post 411. You say that you look Hungarian; what does that mean? Can you place my looks?

Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]

Hi Shari:

Thanks so much for your response. I have posted on this topic a few times on this board, and no one has ever bothered to comment, and when they did, only to tell me that I don't look Polish (except for one other poster). It is not really important to me to look one way or another, and I am just as proud of my Hungarian heritage, but I know that there is more than one Polish look.

I have a theory that my maternal grandmother may have been from the Ukraine when it was part of Poland, and may be Polish-Russian, but I would think that they would know. I am adopted and have met my birth mother, and I would think that she would know this if it were true. But, maybe they didn't think it was important because the grandmother identified as Polish and it has been lost through the generations. I have seen a picture of her and she definitely looks like someone who would have a typical East Slavic look.

Yes, I have naturally olive or tanned skin, but two of the pictures that you saw were taken in Southeast Asia, so I was especially tanned. However, my cheeks are also very rosy, and can blush deeply, which I have heard is a slavic feature and a Mongolian/Asian feature, but I don't know.

I am Eastern European on the maternal side, but also part Arawak Indian/Suriname/Dutch on the paternal side. You could also be seeing that aspect, but I know that I am a mix of both.

So, what is a Hungarian-shaped face? I always thought that I had one. Do you have any pictures of yourself that you can post?

I'm so glad to meet another poster who is part Polish and Hungarian!

Genealogy / Kapushka name - what is the meaning? [17]

Thanks Polonius3. Every frickin' thing about me and my heritage is enigmatic - it is a never-ending headache. I thought once I found out certain identifers, things would get easier, but they just keep taking me further and futher away.

Is the Kapushka name more common in the Ukraine, in Russia, or among the Ruthenians?

Any one know? I will also try to find out somehow.

Thanks again.

*added: it is a bit of a mystery, because I was told that the maternal grandmother spoke Polish, and had a Polish accent. She obviously identified as Polish, so maybe she is part of the populations that could have lived in the Ukraine but identified as Polish politically and culturally ... I don't know. Did they have different last names? It seems that she could have been from a peasant family that farmed cabbage sometime in the late 19th Century and fled to the U.S.?

Don't know. All I have is a last name and photo packed away. I will try to visit that part of the family this summer and try to get more information.