News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

It turns out that there were more cases like that, but those women survived, because they were taken to other hospitals (where they would be helped) by this organisation - Federacja na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny (they won't name those hospitals for fear of retribution):

wiadomosci.wp.pl/smierc-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-od-wyroku-trybunalu-konstytucyjnego-taki-horror-dotyczyl-kilkunastu-polek-6700519335279552a

"- W kilkunastu przypadkach na prośbę kobiet podjęliśmy interwencje. Polegały one na znalezieniu innego szpitala dla pacjentek będących w stanie zagrożenia życia po komplikacjach w ciąży. Choć wcześniej stwierdzono u nich ciężkie i nieodwracalne wady płodu, lekarze wstrzymywali procedury medyczne, dając do zrozumienia, że obawiają się restrykcyjnego prawa - mówi prawniczka."

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Cojestdocholery, we're "stupid" because we don't want pregnant women to die needlessly? What the hell is wrong with you?

And why only "women"? There are men on this forum who share our view on this matter.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

*hospital staff, sorry


I want one too...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Novichok, the doctors could be also negligent and slow responding, I'm not ruling that out - that's one of the things I meant when I wrote about the "reality of Polish hospitals", unfortunately... Not that long ago one pregnant woman died because of the hospital stuff not taking her condition seriously enough and not performing the needed tests soon enough...


Oh, sure, OK, maybe WOŚP will take care of that next year then... ;/

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Novichok, the woman was texting her family from hospital - she was saying that the doctors are waiting for the baby's heart to stop beating, so they could empty the womb (perform the caesarean section, I guess?) - according to her they were waiting because of the abortion law:

kobieta.wp.pl/rodzina-zmarlej-kobiety-w-ciazy-wydala-oswiadczenie-lekarze-przyjeli-postawe-wyczekujaca-6700134978001856a

"Zmarła w trakcie pobytu, w wiadomościach wysyłanych do członków rodziny i przyjaciół, relacjonowała, że zgodnie z informacjami przekazywanymi jej przez lekarzy, przyjęli oni postawę wyczekującą, powstrzymując się od opróżnienia jamy macicy do czasu obumarcia płodu, co wiązała z obowiązującymi przepisami ograniczającymi możliwości legalnej aborcji" - podaje mecenas Budzowska w komunikacie."


I agree, especially that the doctors decided to wait for the baby's death and considering the mother's condition... But that's the reality of Polish hospitals, I'm afraid, and Pszczyna isn't a big city....

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

We know more details and autopsy results are available now:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/smierc-ciezarnej-30-latki-prokurator-ujawnia-szczegoly-6700494304508864a

The woman was admitted to the hospital in the morning, because her waters broke. The baby was 5 months old, so it was too early. Already at that time the woman had an increased level of C-reactive protein (CRP) in her blood (it increases when there's inflammation in one's body). It means the infection in her body already started. An infection can be the cause of premature rupture of membranes (amniotic sac), btw, but that's just my guess. She was given antibiotics. The baby was alive at that time. The next day the woman's condition got worse, so an ultrasound scan was carried out - it revealed that the baby was dead. The mother also had a high CRP level, so it was decided that a caesarean section should be performed. However, the patient's condition was getting worse and despite the doctors' efforts her heart stopped.

According to the prosecutor autopsy results show that it is highly likely that a septic shock after the baby's death and infection was the cause of the woman's death and the premature rupture of membranes was the cause of the baby's death.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


My answer is "A".

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I think what mafketis meant was that it wasn't possibile to sustain the pregnancy and the baby wouldn't survive outside the mother's womb (especially that it had congenital defects). If it wasn't the case the doctors wouldn't just wait for the baby to die.

@jon357, the problem is that it's not just the woman's body in question anymore - a baby is another "body" made up from mother's and father's genetical material. It's not just some another organ in the woman's body.

So, I think the father should have some say too.

However, it's a different matter when the woman's health and life is at risk. Then it should be her decision in the end, imho.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


That's what you started doing in your post #1,764. And that's why I reacted to what you wrote.


You? :D


It's you who's stubborn by pretending that this case isn't about terminating a healthy pregnancy, but one that would end (and ended) in the baby's death anyway.


What I write is not "nonsense". And if it's the case that this woman died because of the new abortion law, then changing this law into something more realistic and humane could prevent the future deaths of pregnant women in similar situation.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I do control them - I simply stated a fact :) I guess you don't like the truth about yourself :)) Btw, it was you who first wrote that "I sound stupid", so maybe instead of offending people stick to using arguments and other people will do the same for you.


Then "frauds" were working for years in that hospital. Btw, I'm afraid your musings won't comfort the dead woman and her family. I'd rather I didn't have to worry myself about what laws doctors at the hospital are worrying about when they're deciding whether to save my life or not. Laws should be as reasonable and as clear as possibile, especially if a human life is at stake - no matter what doctors are like in a given country. Because the world isn't perfect, doctors are people too and they aren't perfect either.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I am not stupid. Btw, I may not be a doctor, but this guy is - why don't you "spar" with him:

kobieta.wp.pl/pacjentka-zmarla-bo-czekano-az-obumrze-plod-ginekolog-komentuje-przerazajaca-sytuacje-6699751802096512a


Actually, we do - read what that doctor has to say:

"- Aktualnie ciąże z bezwodziem, nawet kilkunastotygodniowe, pomimo fatalnego rokowania, obejmowane są opieką i przyjmuje się postawę wyczekującą, bez możliwości jej przerwania. Pacjentki podlegają między innymi ocenie pod kątem powikłań zapalnych. Sytuacja, w której dochodzi do zakażenia wewnątrzowodniowego z powikłaniami septycznymi, jest stanem ciężkiego pogorszenia zdrowia i zagrożenia życia ciężarnej. Z informacji, które posiadamy, wynika, że to właśnie z taką sytuacją mieliśmy do czynienia u pacjentki - tłumaczy dr Socha."


You're not only stupid, but clearly also some f*cked up freak. Why don't you read about the case first, before you start throwing accusations at people.

Please provide a translation for Polish text in this section of the forums

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

I'm not a doctor, I don't know whether oligohydramnios (bezwodzie) is enough for the mother to develop a septic shock, whether the baby has to be dead or whether it's enough that it's dying already.

The doctors knew the baby is going to die and they waited for it's death because of the new abortion law. This is not the same as with aborting a healthy pregnancy - when you know that the child will live. That's why your accusations, Cojestdocholery, that we don't care about life and we're for killing are inappropriate.

Btw, have you wondered what kind of death it is for the baby? It sounded like the doctors waited for quite some time. What if the baby's dying was long and painful?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Cojestdocholery, write in English. This isn't the Polish section of the forum.


Not to you, it seems.


Actually, my comment was smarter than yours :) But you just called your comment stupid :)) If you can't see that, it means you're retarded.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Cojestdocholery, you clearly don't know what I'm for, you idiot, since you don't even know my views on abortion in general. And my comment was simply a mirror reflection of your retarded comment.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Cojestdocholery, why do you pretend to care about life? You are for killing. You don't care about some children you can't even see. All you care is a religious doctrine and all you want is for women to die - the more the better.


Not a "healing method", because that woman wasn't sick, but apparently in this case not emptying the womb in time could lead to a septic shock. It's mentioned in this article:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kobieta-zmarla-w-22-tygodniu-ciazy-dyrektor-szpitala-odpowiada-na-zarzuty-6700223330327488a

"Nie ulega wątpliwości, że przyczyną śmierci pacjentki był wstrząs septyczny. Według źródeł medycznych, choć nie jestem lekarzem, wstrząs septyczny związany jest między innymi właśnie z bezwodziem i z sytuacją obumarcia płodu - wyjaśniła."

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]


I haven't found out about this case from TV. The woman's family made an official statement:

kobieta.wp.pl/rodzina-zmarlej-kobiety-w-ciazy-wydala-oswiadczenie-lekarze-przyjeli-postawe-wyczekujaca-6700134978001856a

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


"Pożar dworu pod Miechowem" by Artur Grottger, one of the main artists depicting the January Uprising. This painting shows one of episodes of the uprising - after the failed attack of insurgents on Miechów, Russians set fire to the town and forbade to put it down. Drunk Russian soldiers were looting and burning down people's houses.

*to put it out

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]


It looks like this case has everything to do with the present abortion law. Only women get pregnant and can have an abortion. And in this case a f*cked up law was more important than a woman's life.


Apparently they are going to be protests...


And Poland is regressing :(

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]

Recently this case shocked Poland - it looks like a pregnant woman died of septic shock because the doctors waited for the baby's heart to stop beating due to PiS changes in abortion law:

kobieta.wp.pl/pacjentka-zmarla-bo-czekano-az-obumrze-plod-ginekolog-komentuje-przerazajaca-sytuacje-6699751802096512a

The baby died and the next day the mother died too. She left a husband and a daughter.

🕯️

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]


Haha :D This one cracked me up lol 👍

@James123, you have some sick and one-track mind. And as it is usually the case with the weirdos on this forum - you're probably projecting.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


Yup ;D


Yup :) An Ukrainian guy painted this mural in Canada :)

Here's an article about it:

vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/first-time-muralist-paints-mind-bending-piece-in-mount-pleseant-photos-4254237


YUP! Awesome, well done! :))

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


Yes, exactly! :) The element resembling menorah on that platform on which the smaller astronaut is standing.


Nope, that's a real bottle ;) - part of the artist's stuff that he used for painting - I simply cropped the photo to get rid of the unnecessary stuff.

OK, so the second reference is the patch on the shoulder of the big astronaut - the Polish flag. It symbolises where Lem lived and created his works - in Poland.


Yes! That's the third reference - the most difficult one. Look at the sky...

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


Yes, the writer is Stanisław Lem! So you've guessed the first part of the riddle :) 2021 was declared Stanisław Lem Year by the Polish Parliament, because it's been 100 years since his birth.


Nope, but being interested in astronomy should help in spotting the third reference that is the most difficult one :)


The ocean is from "Solaris", yes, and the whole mural is inspired by this most famous Lem's novel :) But the references I wrote about aren't connected to his books, but to Lem himself. Each of them symbolise something about him (they aren't as big as the ocean though, so you have to look more closely :)).

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]

@Novichok:

1. (stage one) View and treat women as human beings (that would be a good start).

No matter what they wear or how drunk they are, btw. A drunk woman in a miniskirt is still a human being and someone's daughter and a sister.

2. (stage two) Stop viewing and treating women as inferior beings and servants of men.

In some parts of the world there are laws that in theory should guarantee women and girls all of that, but often the laws are one thing and the reality - another... And there are also attitudes in the society that can't really be changed only by laws. Maybe the right upbringing of kids and education of the whole society could change them - with time...

Life / Has feminism and lesbianism progressed in Poland? [645]


He already answered your question correctly. It isn't pawian's fault if you're too prejudiced or too dumb (or both) to accept it or to understand it.

I'm not entirely sure what does gold-digging or enhancing one's looks have anything to do with it. There are gold-diggers among both sexes and both sexes want to be attractive to the opposite sex. Men can enhance their bodies in a natural way - it's enough for them to hit the gym and their muscles will grow. However, no amount of exercise can make women's breasts grow, so the only way to make them bigger is by plastic surgery. There are also men who choose a more artificial (and easier) way and take steroids. So, both sexes can go to great lengths to look attractive to the opposite sex (and sometimes to make a career in show-business for example). It doesn't mean, though, that women with inflated boobs and men on steroids with pumped up muscles aren't human beings and shouldn't be viewed and treated as such.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]

@maf, I also recognised her only from when she was older, but I can't really say what productions I remember her from...


Two of them are pretty easy to spot, I think, but the third one is more difficult.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


lol

OK, another cultural riddle then :):

This mural was painted not in Poland, but abroad and not by a Polish artist, but by an Ukrainian. However, it was created this year to celebrate a famous Polish writer. Which one?

And another part of the riddle: there are some elements/references included by the artist in the mural. Three of them are connected to that Polish writer. Can you find them and say what those references are about?

• 
  Reflection_cut1.jpg
  

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]

Judging by what I've read in a Wikipedia article about him I'm guessing it must be the role of Mr. Sułek in "Kocham pana, panie Sułku"(I love you, Mr. Sułek)... If that's the case then the actress in the photo is Marta Lipińska.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]

The actor on the left looks like Krzysztof Kowalewski to me. I don't recognise the woman... I guess they might be singing or giving voices to some characters... It could be for the radio since Kowalewski was also a radio actor.

News / Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons [1199]


The fact that you don't share their ideals (or you don't know them) doesn't mean they have none.


You must have a bad opinion about Polish nation, considering that PO ruled Poland for two terms - they were chosen in democratic elections :)


PiS has been in power for quite some time already, so I already found out.