History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]


Yes.

I still haven`t posted the reply to the myth. It is here
webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/bookreviews/pachonski.htm

It is long so I will attempt to choose only most important excerpts for you, but due to mods` policy, they might vanish, so don`t blame me. In order to get a full light, read the whole linked site.

Certainly the Poles had little desire to be in Saint Domingue, and also had a natural sympathy for people fighting for their own independence, which probably gave true cause for Dessaline's beliefs that the Poles were a cut different from the French. But the Poles did obey orders, came to Saint Domingue and did their duty as best they could.

Summing up:
1. It is a myth that Poles en masse deserted the French troops and went over to insurgents` side.
2. It is a myth that Poles substantially contributed to the creation of the insurgent government or army and to its victories, or that they greatly helped insurgents to gain independence.


No, it is not a myth, it is a fact, which, paradoxically, is not a part of the Polish myth at all. It is widely unknown, I would say.


The whole island was called Hispaniola. Its Western part, today`s Haiti, was called San/Santo Domingo.

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]

You are talking about rules.

But life is life and people are only people. :):):):)

Read the description of the assasination available in Wiki but elsewhere too

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]

Traitor

Iwo Sym was a known actor before WW2. When Germans occupied Poland, he openly cooperated with them. For that he was killed by the Polish underground.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igo_Sym

Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [275]


That`s normal. You dont` usually like sth which you don`t know and have never seen. The unknown makes you anxious and it is understandable reaction. Country people who have never met a black guy are simply fearful.

But I know little settlements in Poland with a black family of doctors. Their kids play with their white Polish peers and feel Polish.

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]


It is point 3: Protect Polish lands from foreign invasion. (Actually, it should be point 4. Yes, BrutalButcher, my Maths is really horrible. :):):):) Sorry.)


Yes, Kosciuszko is a good heroic counterpart to Targowica traitors.

Yet, I thought about another guy of the time as an example of a zealous Polish patriot.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Rejtan

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]

1. Retain Poland as an independent country.
2. When independence is lost, fight for it.
2. Resist German and Russian expansionism.
3. Protect Polish lands from foreign invasion.
4. Keep the faith.

Food / "Browar Jabłonowo" beer, A Christmas word of warning [18]

I drink this beer from time to time. Yes, I know it is cheap, but I am mean, just as thrifty as stereotypes describe Krakowians, and I don`t like spending more than I need.

But I still remember the taste of beer available in communist times. There were incidents that consumers found flies or even mice in bottles. Compared to that beer, Jabłonowo from Auchan is delicious.

Do you know what I mean? :):):)

No beer produced in Poland today is worse than the one sold in communism.

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

1970 Gdynia massacre anniversary
17.12.2009 16:18

On 17 December, 1970, in Gdynia, communist militia and army opened fire at protesting workers in Gdynia, northern Poland, killing 18 people.

Following yesterday's 28th anniversary of the massacre at the Wujek coal mine, where communist militia opened fire at striking workers, killing 9 and injuring many more, today Poland marks the 39th anniversary of another massacre orchestrated by Poland's communist regime.

It is estimated that in December of 1970 at least 44 people were killed in Gdansk and Gdynia and thousands wounded by communist militia crushing workers' protests. Some sources suggest as many as several hundred might have lost their lives.

Because information was strictly censored, exact numbers of casualties remains a unknown. Communist authorities forged death certificates and families of victims were forced to bury their dead at night, with communist militia guarding them so that nobody found out what happened.

"My son was killed in Gdansk. We arrived at the cemetery at night, I couldn't even see anything. I wanted to take the body, but they wouldn't allow me. So we buried him at night and in the morning we came back to look at the tomb," one mother recalled. (jn)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Thank you for the words of praise. It is nice to know our work is appreciated.

As the main stream of anti-communist movement has already been more or less described, I will focus now on particular events.

The story of Lenin monument in Kraków.

Bombastic Lenin monument erected in Nowa Huta in 1973 was pulled down in 1989 after violent demonstrations during which people tried to destroy it with steel ropes and finally burned it. The police, sent by Solidarity government, protected the monument in fear of Russian Embassy`s reaction and clashed with demonstrators. To avoid further violence, the monument was removed on 10.12.1989, 3 days before the anniversary of martial law.

Earlier, there were more attempts to assassinate Lenin. In 1979, a worker from the nearby Lenin Steel Plant, Andrzej Szewczuwaniec, tried to blow it up with his friends at night. Amateur assassins blew up the job. Lenin only lost his foot, the police didn`t find the perpetrators though the investigation was massive, including students of chemical classes in Krakow high schools.

In 1980s, during the martial law, there were also demonstrations of angry protesters near Lenin monument.

Unveiling

The best of times

Poland communism

Prevention

Burning Lenin in Poland

Lenin was actually hanged.

Ditched Lenin

Today it is in the museum in Sweden.

Empty space in Nowa Huta

Couldn`t they leave Lenin, painted in bright colours, with a baseball cap, and a f*g in his mouth?? Today it would be an unusual attraction in Nowa Huta.

Poles are too emotional. They can`t get rid of historical prejudice. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

3 THINGS:

I hate muddy roads/sidewalks/paths/lawns. Everything.
And rough roads:
And environmental attitude of some Poles:

Work / Teaching English in Zakopane, is it safe? [53]

kayterr

Warning against sects one characteristics of which is a display of certain signs.

Work / Teaching English in Zakopane, is it safe? [53]


You should be careful with those Highlanders. They are quick with their axes. There are hundreds of jokes and stories about Lowland dwellers coming back from the mountains with an axe in their back.

Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [275]


I can. I am welcoming to all foreigners. But it is natural that I prefer them to be hard-working responsible guys, not beggars.

Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [275]

Foreigners are welcome. But they`d better be well-off as Poland is too poor to provide for broke guys who come and beg in streets.

News / Original cars manufactured in Poland [64]


Right. The bonnet didn`t open.

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Semi free elections, June 4th, 1989. Let`s remember, Poland`s neighbours, Czecholsovakia, East Germany, were still fully communist countries with scanty opposition.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_Sejm

Contract Sejm (Polish: Sejm kontraktowy) is a term commonly applied to the Polish Parliament elected in the Polish parliamentary elections of 1989. The contract refers to an agreement reached by the Communist Party and the Solidarity (Solidarność in Polish) movement during the Polish Round Table Agreement. Solidarność became a legitimate and legal political party.

Elections in Poland



Checking results



Solidarnośc office in a cafe.



All Solidarity candidates had a photo with Lech Walesa taken.



Famous posters



Known celebrities took part in Solidarity campaign

Jane Fonda

Rally in Poland

Sticking posters

We must win



Victory

On the same day, Chinese communist dictators ordered the army to massacre revolted students in Tiananmen Square.

PS. Naturally, I took part in voting. The week before had been very busy, I helped sticking posters all over the area. Then, on the election day, I had a terrific satisfaction crossing out communist candidates, those red stinking *******. Served them well!!!! ;D ;D

The country-wide list comprising the most hardened communists. They were all turned down except for one.

Today commemoration A giant poster on Warsaw skyscraper

Today in Poland

Memorial stone in a Polish town

Cabinet of Tadeusz Mazowiecki, a Solidarity leader, opposition activist, was sworn to office on 12 September 1989. The government comprised both opposition and communist party members. Communists were still too strong to ignore them.

Wiki
During his first parliamentary speech as Prime Minister, Mazowiecki nearly fainted. However, it was not to be an omen of things to come. Mazowiecki's government managed to carry out many fundamental reforms in a short period. The political system was thoroughly changed; a full range of civil freedoms as well as a multi-party system were introduced and the country's emblem and name were changed (from the People's Republic of Poland to the Republic of Poland). On December 29, 1989, the fundamental changes in the Polish Constitution were made. By virtue of these changes, the preamble was deleted, the chapters concerning political and economic forms of government were changed, the chapters concerning trade unions were rewritten and a uniform notion of possession was introduced. Thanks to these changes, the economic transformation was enabled.



Mazowiecki gestures triumphantly after the election of his cabinet on September 12, 1989.



There`s government! The other Poland comes to power.



Poland and Germany - conciliation.



A few days ago the 20th anniversary was celebrated. Parliament paid a tribute to old Mazowiecki.

What are the results of the change of the system? Multiple. But most important is the fact that in 1989 Poland`s GNP equaled 30% of European Union`s. Today it is 55% and still growing. GDP per capita came to about $6,000 in 1989 and now is above $17,000,

Poland is the only country in Europe which is going to enjoy an economic growth this year:

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

1988 spring and summer massive strikes helped the communist regime realise certain truth: to avoid an uncontrolled outburst or even a revolution, they need to seek some agreement with Solidarity. Hence, the Round Table talks originated.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Round_Table_Talks

The Polish Round Table Talks took place in Warsaw, Poland from February 6 to April 4, 1989. The government initiated the discussion with the banned trade union Solidarność and other opposition groups in an attempt to defuse growing social unrest. Following the factory strikes of the early 1980s and the subsequent formation of the (then still underground) Solidarity movement under the leadership of Lech Wałęsa the political situation in Poland started relaxing somewhat. Despite an attempt by the government to crack down on the anti-Communist sentiments, the movement had gained too much momentum and it became impossible to hold off change anymore. In addition there was fear of a social explosion due to economic malaise and runaway inflation that had depressed Polish living standards and deepened public anger and frustration. By 1988 the authorities began serious talks with the opposition.

Walesa meets general Kiszczak, Interior Minister, the one who introduced martial law.

Walesa meets general Jaruzelski

The talks:



Happy opposition leaders with happy communists.

Partying. Everybody was glad that they were able to have a peaceful dispute and agreement instead of civil war.

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Hey, it is a nice eagle. I like contrasting yellow and black.

polishforums.com/user_files/pics/3803/1_th.jpg

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]


I consider the joke immensely funny. :):):):):):):):) Listen to relive this great moment again:

youtube.com/watch?v=kifJ_mQdpZA&feature=related

Listen to his jokes about Soviet Union. Among others, a Soviet family has to wait 10 years for the delivery of a car - order today, come back in 10 years. :):):):)

youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A


If Americans were stupid, they wouldn`t have won the Cold War with the Soviets. :):):):) See above - 10 years` waiting time for the delivery of a car.:):):):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]


Yes, Reagan was a good president for those times. He was tough on communists and that`s what I appreciated, though he declared economic sanctions against Poland after the junta cracked down on Solidarity in 1981.

And his joke about a nuclear attack on the Soviet Union starting in 5 minutes was superb. :):):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]


It was just great. I was 18, had sex for the first time and life looked wonderful. :):):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]


I see my true identity has been discovered.
What can I say now??? :):):):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]


In a way, you are right. Workers toppled communism and allowed Solidarity to take over, but when capitalism started to be built, their situation didn`t improve right away. Why? They thought they would work like in communism

(whether you stand or lie, you will get 2000 zlotys -
czy się stoi czy się leży, dwa tysiące się należy)
and earn like in capitalism.
They were wrong.
Those who stubbornly stuck to socialist ideas and didn`t allow their plants to be restructured according to free market economy rules, became drop-outs when their work places went bankrupt.

Communist corruptive ideas had pervaded people`s minds and hearts.
It took 20 years for most Poles to understand that they need to work hard for their own and country`s prosperity.
In comparison to the past, we can say that Poles lost a little to gain a lot. In 1989 an average Pole needed 10 salaries to buy a good quality TV. Today only two salaries. Including workers` wages too.

Kostia, I would gladly fall under Russian domination on one condition: if Russians become like Germans - disciplined, organized, dutiful, etc etc etc, so that they could introduce new quality into Poland and develop these characteristics in Poles :):):):):):):):)

However, I am afraid it won`t happen during my lifetime. :):):):):):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Yes. Apparatchiks, i.e. regime`s henchmen, set up private companies, using the state property and funds and created a new class of capitalists. In the wink of an eye. It shows what people communism had - greedy opportunists. :):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

In 1950, a new złoty was introduced, replacing all earlier issues at a rate of one hundred to one. The new banknotes were dated 1948, whilst the new coins were dated 1949. From 1 January 1990 it was a convertible currency.


Only after weeks of wearing. :):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Yes, the Soviet regime managed to survive because they still had some support from people. Stalin, despite his crimes, received support from common Russians who decided to defend their country against a greater enemy.

At the end of communism,when economy was crumbling into pieces, regimes realised they were losing support not only of common people but also the police and army, two fundamental pillars without which communist system would have collapsed in any country after 3 months after its introduction.

Shortly speaking, party bosses weren`t sure if the forces would stand by them in case of trouble. They prefered to resign than check it out for themselves. :):):):)

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

There were more victims of the martial law. Altogether - about 100.

Grzegorz Przemyk, a 19 yo high school student, beaten up to death at the police station in 1983.

Przemyk`s grave



One more death which shocked Poles. Solidarity priest Jerzy Popiełuszko was assassinated by the communist secret police. The murder was so blatant that the regime was forced to react. The murderers were arrested and received due punishment.

On October 19, 1984, a frail, young priest was savagely beaten and drowned by government security agents in the woods of rural Poland. The brutal death of this holy priest, carried out in the dark of night, captured the attention of the world, and his martyrdom is increasingly seen as a sacrifice leading not only to the resurrection of his own country as a free and independent nation of Christian people, but a bloody sacrifice redeeming all enslaved European peoples from the Baltic to the Urals.



The nation`s answer: But they can`t kill the soul.

Bogdan Włosik, shot during a demonstration in 1983.

Monument

History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2 [339]

Hey, make up your mind at last if you want a little bloodshed


or a big massacre.


:):):):)


Actually, they were never afraid to use lethal violence against protesting workers and others. If you look carefully through this thread, you will see it.

But after continual usage of violence they realised it didn`t help, only made the situation much worse in the long run. Angry workers didn`t want to work and eventually even communist rulers, those Red Princes, started complaining about economy when they couldn`t give the police and army satisfactory pay rises and new equipment because there was not enough money.

Finally communists realised they needed to give away power to avoid being eaten alive by the furious hungry nation and nobody would help them because their protectors, red army and police, would be hungry too.

Ponial, towariszcz? :):):):):):):)