Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


Probably not.

If one were to base his arguments on modern Russians - then definitely not.

Russians disappear into whatever culture they are immersed into.

Then, when they see Russians on the street, they change the language, and speak in whispers - lest they be identified by their former compatriots.

Of all the diasporas in America - the Russian-American diaspora is probably the weakest and most impotent one - especially when compared to some of our neighbors like Armenians or Jews.

Russians don't like being around other Russians, for some reason.

One of my acquaintances in New York is a Russian, that once complained to me that he stopped going to one Russian Orthodox Church, because it "had too many Russians in it". Now he goes to a Ukrainian church, but is similarly unhappy - for other reasons.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


I don't know enough Turkish history to argue, or whatever concerns the caliphates. But I do know Roman/Byzantine history rather well, and there I can say you are wrong.

The major Arab client of the Romans were the Ghassanids. Later they became Byzantine foederati.

There is nothing in the histories regarding them being consumed by intra tribal conflict.

Their main conflict was with the Lakhmids, who were Persian clients. In essence, a proxy conflict between the Byzantines and Sassanid Persia.

There was constant Bedouin raiding, but these were neither aligned with the Byzantines or the Persians. They made incursions in border areas, raiding frontier settlements and caravan routes - but never anything that was significant enough for much ink to be dedicated to it.

So this does not support your argument that Arabs were always fighting each other, unless you want to make the argument that Bedouins represent a significant slice of the global Arab population - which they do not.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


Not so.

They didn't do that while living under the Turks for five centuries.

They didn't do it earlier, under the Abbasids, Umayyads. They didn't do it under the Byzantines, or the Persians, or the Romans.

They do it now, because British boffins drew up ridiculous maps for new countries, where no countries previously existed. This, without taking into account how the rivers flow in the region, who depended on what marshlands, and on what fisheries, or where old tribal divisions lay.

Ditto for Africa.

Now Kuwaitis think themselves to be infinitely superior to Iraqis. Jordanians feel they owe nothing to the Palestinians. Bahrainis hate their own Shia population, etc, and so on.

Nationalism infects the human mind rapidly after the creation of arbitrary borders.

Only empires are able to keep those demons bottled up, and keep everyone focused on working for the greater good - rather than grabbing the fattest piece of the pie for their group.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


Then they should live with the Poles.

That half, that is on the Right Bank of the Dnieper - they can go and become chłops again to the Poles.

The Left Bank, which was always loyal to Moscow, should be allowed to rejoin with their kin.

Maybe the Galicians would prefer to go back to sucking Austrian dick, instead of groveling before the Poles. That's their problem - who's dick to suck.

Especially all the Greco-Catholic idiots - they can go and join whomever they want.

But it is strange to have Orthodox people live under a Catholic government.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


I know it may sound funny, but it's what we believe.

One good indicator of some "brainwashing" going on, is what percentage of Ukraine's citizens self report as Russians. In the 1990s, it was around 40%. Now it's less than 10%.

Can you go from being a Pole, to being an American - in under thirty years? I suppose Novichok would say - yes, you can.


Whichever history I am reading - Ukrainians are unable to reply to a simple question:

"Where was Ukraine in the period between the 9th century AD and 1991?"

Was it located underground, or in some heavenly kingdom which us mortals cannot see?

Maybe Ukraine was a state of the soul?

-//-

Smart Ukrainians, who recognize this "problem" with their narrative, claim instead that they are true Russians, while we are some Tatar/Mongol mutants. This at least makes a little bit more sense, but still leaves many issues outstanding.


With a heavy heart, I must admit this is true. You British people have proven this in my mind.

For the Arabs, you drew up all sorts of stupid and imaginary countries like Kuwait, Iraq, Jordan, etc... and now they are ready to kill each other over invisible lines in the sand.

When a local elite forms, and begins to feel that they "own" their people, all sorts of stupid nationalisms can arise.

Nobody wants to give the wheel up back to Istanbul or Moscow, after they've had 30-40-50 years of juicing their own people for rents.

Instead - they start spending hundreds of millions of dollars on year round celebrations of "2,000 years of Iraqi Statehood", or building museums around some collection of rocks they identified in the desert - and to which they attach themselves too.

Leave alone, that their grandparents would have thought them very strange for doing such things.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


We must be reading different histories, because Russia's argument that Ukrainians are a synthetic people is largely based on historical proof.


Of course, because it is 50% borrowed Polonisms.

All the маю рацию, розмовление, дякую, тыждень, рок, шукати, робити, шкода and страва - all these words which we Russians don't understand they learned from the pan overlords.

All a result of the collapse of the Rus state, and Poland's occupation of its former Western territories.

We can't really blame the Mongols for the collapse, because it happened nearly a century earlier than their arrival.

Genealogy / Do you consider Gorals, Lemkos, and Silesians Poles? [77]


... then you turn around, and throw accusations of Russian chauvinism when we say the same about the Ukrainian language.

Imagine you elected some Gorbachev/Yeltsin style morons, that would promise people as much freedom and self determination as "they can grab" (genuine Yeltsin quote).

The Silesians would then rapidly separate - thinking to themselves - "We've got the coal and the industry, we've had enough of feeding Poland B."

Thirty years later, they'd be ready to die to defend their independence, when some Polish Putin invaded.

Some new Jon, and new Maf, will be here accusing you lot of being 19th century troglodytes.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


It's literally an ocean away, and as you may have gleaned from the news - not exactly free of problems of its own.

The fact they saved you twice, can only be chalked up to familial piety.

But now that America is more beige/brown, that fundamental loyalty to Europe is quickly eroding. By the middle of the century, America will no longer be majority white - and then the politics may become very unpleasant for you dying Euros indeed.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


Somehow, European politicians think America will send something.

I think the only rational response, is that every European bureaucrat who has some impact on policymaking vis-à-vis the United States, should be able to prove that he lived at least 5 of the past 10 years in the US.

Any person who spends 100 days living in this country, would quickly see how the idea of giving help to Europe is "dead".

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


They do the dick-sucking in a way which is transparently exploitative of the United States.

Like some bimbo you meet at the bar, and who cares not what sort of trouble it will land you with, in terms of your family.

That is - they don't suck American dick because they enjoy the taste, or truly feel passionate about America. They do it, in the hope that America will then cover them with its ass - receiving the Russian dildo of consequences along with them.

Such a friend - is no friend at all.

And it does not matter how many times Nawrocki comes to crawl around the floor of the Oval Office, or how many times Tusk swallows his pride and says something nice about Trump.

It is clear to everyone that- that the Poles are being nice, because they expect you to spend 50,000-100,000-200,000 lives protecting their independence.

Otherwise they don't respect you at all. They hate even their closest neighbors, who gave them the most money.

If you are not useful to Poles - their interest in you will evaporate in a moment. These are a profoundly wounded people, like Russians, who see even hundreds of billions of EU transfers as "just reparations".

Good luck to both of you, in finding perfect marriage harmony.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]

@Korvinus

My point was - that big uncle from across the ocean does not scare us.

Appeals to his authority - only makes you look pathetic in comparison. Have you no agency? No will of your own - to resist?

Russians don't rely on anybody for protection. We don't beg for help, on our knees, like the Ukrainians. We don't need handouts. We chart our own fate.

Russia's only permanent allies are its navy and its army.

It would be good if you Poles too, could practice independent thinking.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


Do not stop a man from achieving catharsis from reading his own words on paper.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


We have more nukes than them - do you remember this?

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


Excuse me?

America cannot wipe out Iran, or Yemen - instead always pushing for talks after dropping some token Tomahawks on their head.

America has never, in its entire history, fought an enemy like Russia. Not Germany, not Japan, or Great Britain can compare - as far as American historical enemies go.

There is no historical precedent to show that America can fight a war like the hypothetical one against Russia.

No American politician who is sane, would ever propose such an idea. This is a bipartisan consensus - and remains the same whether it's Biden or Trump in the White House.

If you have the richest country in world history, with seemingly impossible wealth, good climate, fertile land, and most importantly peace - why the hell would you gamble it all on a war with Russia - of all countries?

What does America stand to gain from fighting with Russia, other than jeopardizing its blessed existence?

Russia is the only country in the world, which has the military potential to erase the United States - this is why the two will never risk anything serious. It just doesn't make sense. The game is not worth the candles.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


Yes maybe you should learn from the Italians, who always seem to be on the winning side regardless of where they started?

Russia switched sides once, but only after the Kaiser sent us Lenin on a train.

The Kaiser's man, made us sign the terrible treaty of Brest Litovsk, where Poland, Finland, the Baltics, and Ukraine were all lost.

Our "great" allies, a year later - when they defeated Germany finally - didn't give us back any of these spaces.

No... instead they invaded us from all sides (after wrapping up with Germany), and made our civil war last three times as long as it could have.

It's a miracle that Russia emerged alive from that experience.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]

It's too bad Paw is not here to witness Kania's miraculous metamorphosis...

He would be proud!

I do hope he's okay out there, sleeping on his sumo mat, and planting squashes.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


Germany protecting Poland against Russia - is something I need to see.

Catherine and Alexander will be spinning in their graves. Ribbentrop and Bismarck will be doing somersaults.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [487]


Thanks for the dictionary entry, Fritz. Now go back to polishing your sandals with mustard, Hans.


Make peace with the Ukrainians - fine! But to forgive the Anglos their perfidy - never.

Off-Topic / PF Poster Polonius3 - Sad news [21]

@jon357

I always thought he had something to do with the owners of the forum, was that the case?

@Novi

I think it's two different people. He wrote differently from the Poloniusz which is still around, and had entirely different interests.

Off-Topic / PF Poster Polonius3 - Sad news [21]

RIP Polonius

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


Tell this to a Polish soldier, and see if he feels happy about it.

In the same way, in Ukraine there is a huge divide between civilians (who love to talk about mobiks, orcs, and slaves)... and soldiers (who have to fight mobiks, orcs, and slaves).

-//-

As a rule, a soldier anywhere on the planet wants a few simple things:

1) Competent commanders.
2) Adequate opportunity for rest.
3) Confidence that he or his family will be taken care of in the case of a wounding or death.
4) Sufficient supply.

He doesn't need so much, a Korvinus sitting in the rear, telling tall tales about how he can fight 49 Russians off with his bare hands.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]

@Korvinus

What's this kind of homeopathic dose of soldiers supposed to do?

If Russia doesn't invade (99.99999999% probability) - then you wasted several hundred million zloty for a PR stunt.

If Russia does invade - these 40,000 will end up in a rapid encirclement - faster than you can say "Bialowieza".

-//-

Conclusion - action was performed for retarded reasons like "European Readiness" and "Demonstration of Resolve" that only people in Brussels can comprehend...

To be honest they are geniuses in Brussels, when it comes to the art of inflating some token force rotation into something that sounds instead like Caesar's legions moving into Gaul.

To help them and you Poles, I will come up with some potential "Brussels-approved" labels for the next time you send a 200 person contingent to some Lithuanian airbase:

Security themed:

1) Shield of Unity
2) Operation Eternal Guard
3) Forward Freedom Facility (alliteration!)

More geographically focused:

1) Baltic Sentinel
2) Danube Watch
3) Nordic Horizon
4) Carpathian Resolve

Values oriented:

1) Operation Democratic Shield
2) Guardian of Liberty
3) Lawful Dignity Deployment

Poetic and Wistful:

1) Aurora Spear
2) Praetorian Presence
3) Eagle's Watch

This way... while your soldiers may still feel very stupid, and utterly unprotected by their irresponsible governments - they will at least have nice shoulder patches to gift to their kids.

BB, as talented artist, can handle the graphic design. I suggest a liberal use of eagles, lightning bolts, and that part of the world map which shows the North Atlantic Ocean.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


The Gerbera is smaller, and much, much lighter than the Geraniums.

Ukrainian specialists that catalogue and study Russian drones, claim the Gerbera has a wingspan of about 2.5 meters, and that it weighs around 20-50 kilograms. It's powered by a small pusher engine that can be bought in any hobby shop, while its construction is mostly foam/plastic around plywood formers.

Contrast this to the Geran-2 or Geran-3, which has a 3.5 meter wingspan, and a weight of 250 kilograms and 350 kilograms respectively.

The Gerbera is basically a large model airplane, like children make in high school.

It's simultaneously quite big and very light. After hundreds of uses in Ukraine, there is tons of photo proof of them landing largely unharmed, in the same way they landed in Polish fields.

So Velund's idea that the Ukrainian's could be gathering them and fixing them up is quite reasonable.


Given that we are discussing a medium sized KAMIKAZE drone, I don't think the normal fail-safe or return-to-base logic applies.

This is not a big reconnaissance drone with an expensive payload, that you need to be able to land safely if you lose control.

In fact, the Geran-2/3 and Gerbera probably don't possess any safe way of landing at all.

Probably once control is lost, the drone continues flying along the last known GPS waypoints.

If GPS is spoofed, it may switch to inertial navigation (have no idea if the German's possess suitable equipment for this).

If GPS and INS are both f*cked - I think the drone will simply continue to fly straight until it runs out of fuel and crashes.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


Maybe the Ukrainians borrowed a lesson out of their Hizbollah pager operation book...

... or maybe this really was done intentionally by Russia.

Perhaps... it was effective, based on the reactions of everybody in this thread, who is writing "oh gosh, our air defenses really do seem quite weak!".

Maybe Putin's cunning plan, was to make Europeans so worried about their patchy air defenses, that they decide to withhold further shipments to Ukraine and instead arm themselves.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


In 2011, Iran spoofed an RQ-170 Sentinel drone into landing in Iranian territory. Until that incident, the drone was unknown, and represented the pinnacle of American stealth and drone engineering. Its capture gave Iran a huge boost in the development of its indigenous drone industry.

So if Iran could do it in 2011, then Ukraine can certainly do it in 2025.


1) Easiest - exploit the command link. Most small drones used in this war, rely on radio links for operator control. If you identify the frequency and protocol used, then break or bypass the encryption - you can inject your own commands.

This is super easy to do with the consumer grade drones used, from companies like DJI - because they use standard and lightly protected links. That's why tens of thousands of these drones are hacked monthly on the frontlines.

Both the Russians and Ukrainians upgrade these drones to encrypted frequency hopping control channels, and this helps, but they are still hackable.

In any case, this does not apply to this recent case in Poland.

2) Harder - GPS spoofing. Larger drones, like the one used in Poland, don't just rely on stick controls, but have autopilots keyed to GPS/GLONASS. By spoofing GPS signals, you can make the drone think it's somewhere else. Instead of realizing it's in Poland, you can make it think it's still making its way westwards toward Lvov.

If you combine spoofing with a loss of data link (by jamming the control channels), the drone may switch into a fail safe mode where it will be even easier to fool.

3) The hardest - This would be some more Israel-level business, involving hacking into Russia's actual ground infrastructure. It could mean inserting malware into the maintenance or mission planning software. Hacking into ground control software. Maybe even exploiting a poorly secured satellite uplink.

In true Israeli fashion - they could have maybe inserted agents at the factory level, who implemented back doors in the software. This seems a bit fantastical, however.

-//-

Finally - it could be as banal as a Ukrainian double agent, quietly sabotaging missions by inserting malicious code. No need to over complicate something, when it just as easily could have been done through some good old fashioned human sneakery.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


This is why Poles are our brothers.

Project of my life currently - is to show Poles that there are minimal differences between them and Russians - however unpleasant it is for Poles to consider this notion currently.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


Same when Russia under Medvedev began buying Western equipment, especially that huge French piece of sh*t that we never received - the Mistral Class helicopter carriers.

Also Iveco fleeced us on the armored patrol vehicles.

Thales sold us thermal vision sights for our tanks, at prices that rivaled the price of the whole tank.

Medvedev was an idiot for more reason than one.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


Ukraine definitely does not see Poland as a "silly younger cousin".

It sees Poland as an "avaricious Pan", who sees in Ukrainians only niewolniki and czeladz.

News / Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace. [252]


You will never prove it - because Russian UAVs were used.

Germany has literally, right now, in their custody the man that masterminded the Nord Stream explosions. They still don't want to tie it Ukraine.

Poland had one of the divers, and Germany demanded extradition, but Poland didn't do anything - until the man peacefully left in the vehicle of the Ukrainian military attache in Poland. Unfortunately, the man died afterwards on the frontlines...

Your governments are not stupid. They see Zelensky's game, and they tolerate it - because right now Russia is the bigger threat.

The hope is that you are carefully taking notes, and formulating some pragmatic way of dealing with Ukraine in the future. They are slippery f*ckers...

Off-Topic / Random Chat Thread [670]

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