pawian
27 Aug 2013
History / Film "Wałęsa" - historical reality vs myth - controvercies [110]
Like that means like what? Did you see it??
Onlhly Wajda could make a film like that.
Like that means like what? Did you see it??
pawian
27 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Nonsense. Stick to the topic and don`t pollute threads with off-topic songs, please. If you need diversion, go to the cinema, concert or pub, whatever.... :):):)
Of course he was because he supported communism for nearly all his life. And the fact that Church was so strong in his times means nothing - it wasn`t Jaruzelski`s merit but Polish peoples` power and ability to resist.
Nonsense. Stick to the topic and don`t pollute threads with off-topic songs, please. If you need diversion, go to the cinema, concert or pub, whatever.... :):):)
Jaruzelski was a communist indeed.
Of course he was because he supported communism for nearly all his life. And the fact that Church was so strong in his times means nothing - it wasn`t Jaruzelski`s merit but Polish peoples` power and ability to resist.
pawian
27 Aug 2013
History / Film "Wałęsa" - historical reality vs myth - controvercies [110]
Fallaci treated each interview as a fight, or, as she once admitted, as a sexual intercourse. It is obvious that Wałęsa was either a too big fighter for her or a hopeless lover.
Fallaci`s attitude to Wałęsa and Poland in general wasn`t so positive either:
Queen intelligence and journalistic extremist . She shouted at the Ayatollah , the emperor moved out of balance . At the end of the show with us Oriana
What impressed you Fallaci ? She was reportedly a beautiful woman - I ask Lech Walesa.
Former President laughs - impression ? I had then Poland before my eyes , not a journalist . It was a time that I helped a dozen interviews a day. Journalists did not impress me .
Walesa had never read an interview Fallaci . The journalist , in turn, was not happy to talk with the leader of "Solidarity ." After leaving the interview she told Polish friends, " Walesa will finish his people ."
Fallaci treated each interview as a fight, or, as she once admitted, as a sexual intercourse. It is obvious that Wałęsa was either a too big fighter for her or a hopeless lover.
Walesa attitude toward Fellaci in 1981 was what we would label today "male chauvinism" and
Fallaci`s attitude to Wałęsa and Poland in general wasn`t so positive either:
Queen intelligence and journalistic extremist . She shouted at the Ayatollah , the emperor moved out of balance . At the end of the show with us Oriana
What impressed you Fallaci ? She was reportedly a beautiful woman - I ask Lech Walesa.
Former President laughs - impression ? I had then Poland before my eyes , not a journalist . It was a time that I helped a dozen interviews a day. Journalists did not impress me .
Walesa had never read an interview Fallaci . The journalist , in turn, was not happy to talk with the leader of "Solidarity ." After leaving the interview she told Polish friends, " Walesa will finish his people ."
pawian
27 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Any particular reason for Polish in this thread??? I can`t see it.......
Any particular reason for Polish in this thread??? I can`t see it.......
pawian
19 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Yes, I also come across such opinions. But they are less popular than those about good results of Pinochet`s methods in the longer run.
Yes, I also come across such opinions. But they are less popular than those about good results of Pinochet`s methods in the longer run.
pawian
18 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
2
Pinochet died, Jaruzelski holds on.
3
It seems Pinochet is guilty of causing deaths of thousands while Jaruzelski of hundreds. Chilean coup de tat gave way to veritable massacre of Chilean leftists. As I said before, when I lived in communism, I enjoyed the fact that communists were persecuted.
Today, I pity them and their families.
4
Economy is a great difference. Most experts believe that Pinochet`s reforms (though drastic ones) allowed Chile to become one of the wealthiest countries in South America in the longer run.
Jaruzelski`s attempts to reform the communist system were hopeless and when he was giving up power, Polish economy was already completely ruined.
How about differences?
2
Pinochet died, Jaruzelski holds on.
How about differences?
3
It seems Pinochet is guilty of causing deaths of thousands while Jaruzelski of hundreds. Chilean coup de tat gave way to veritable massacre of Chilean leftists. As I said before, when I lived in communism, I enjoyed the fact that communists were persecuted.
Today, I pity them and their families.
How about differences?
4
Economy is a great difference. Most experts believe that Pinochet`s reforms (though drastic ones) allowed Chile to become one of the wealthiest countries in South America in the longer run.
Jaruzelski`s attempts to reform the communist system were hopeless and when he was giving up power, Polish economy was already completely ruined.
pawian
18 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
A little reminder is a good thing, no matter where and who it comes from.
Sorry, the Bible is quite straightforward about it - you must forgive not 7 but 77 times. There is nothing about contrition and repentance. Simple. It is read at least once a year during mass service.
I think he did apologise for Polish participation in 1968 events. He also apologised for bloodshed during martial law. And when a guy struck Jaruzelski with a brick in the head (Jaruzelski landed in hospital for a few days) , he forgave the perpetrator and didn`t sue him.
Jarosław Kaczyński sent his brother to die in Russia for the sake of his career. Did he ever apologise???
Again a heaten lecturing Chrisitians about Christianity?!
A little reminder is a good thing, no matter where and who it comes from.
Their ilk love to latch on to the forgiveness and mercy bit but conveniently forget that that hinges on CONTRITION AND REPENTANCE.
Sorry, the Bible is quite straightforward about it - you must forgive not 7 but 77 times. There is nothing about contrition and repentance. Simple. It is read at least once a year during mass service.
Jaruzelski never even as much as apologised for serving the Evil Empire.
I think he did apologise for Polish participation in 1968 events. He also apologised for bloodshed during martial law. And when a guy struck Jaruzelski with a brick in the head (Jaruzelski landed in hospital for a few days) , he forgave the perpetrator and didn`t sue him.
for not attending his own mother's funeral for the sake of his career,
Jarosław Kaczyński sent his brother to die in Russia for the sake of his career. Did he ever apologise???
pawian
18 Aug 2013
pawian
18 Aug 2013
Life / Street names in Polish towns/cities [26]
I am too decent to translate this dirty name for you.
I am too decent to translate this dirty name for you.
pawian
18 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Have we finished similarities?
How about differences?
1
Jaruzelski supported communism, Pinochet capitalism.
Have we finished similarities?
How about differences?
1
Jaruzelski supported communism, Pinochet capitalism.
pawian
17 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
That is a great paradox indeed, worth a seperate thread.
That was a disgrace, really. Kamiński sort of glorified a murderer responsible for the deaths of thousands people. Isn`t it funny? Right wingers condemn Jaruzelski for communist repression but glorify their own kind as long as they killed communists. Sick.
As you can see Solidarity movement was against commercialization and much more anti-market than so-called communists.
That is a great paradox indeed, worth a seperate thread.
Gen Pinochet was clearly moved and extremely happy with our visit.
That was a disgrace, really. Kamiński sort of glorified a murderer responsible for the deaths of thousands people. Isn`t it funny? Right wingers condemn Jaruzelski for communist repression but glorify their own kind as long as they killed communists. Sick.
pawian
17 Aug 2013
History / Film "Wałęsa" - historical reality vs myth - controvercies [110]
Good question. As fas as I know, Wałęsa wasn`t interviewed. The script was written by a well known Polish writer and dramatist, Janusz Głowacki. It was rumoured that Wajda and Glowacki had a conflict because Glowacki didn`t want to make a heroic film while Wajda prefered to remain politically correct. We`ll see.
wnas.pl/artykuly/2061-glowacki-nie-interesuje-mnie-film-bohaterski-wajda-zmienil-scenariusz
kultura.gazeta.pl/kultura/1,114438,14071289,Konflikt_Wajdy_z_Glowackim_o_scenariusz__Walesy__.html
Good question. As fas as I know, Wałęsa wasn`t interviewed. The script was written by a well known Polish writer and dramatist, Janusz Głowacki. It was rumoured that Wajda and Glowacki had a conflict because Glowacki didn`t want to make a heroic film while Wajda prefered to remain politically correct. We`ll see.
While working on the movie, Andrzej Wajda has changed some of the scenes written by the writer Janusz Głowacki. Where Glowacki pushed toward the grotesque and irony, Wajda tried to be serious and toned down. Glowacki says that he does not know what in the movie remained, and what came out, but instead ... he is writing a book about how he wrote the script and the idea of work on the movie from his perspective.
In the weekly magazine Glowacki says that he does not know what will be the shape of the movie. "I do not know what will be mounted, and removed" - Głowacki said. The writer admits that he was not interested in writing the "heroic" movie. "Ridicule is always connected for me with pathos, because without ridiculousness there is no drama. In this way I wanted to show Wałęsa "- said the writer in an interview with" Newsweek ". He added that he gave just few "of grotesque" after all, and thus have the impression that it is not sufficient.
In the weekly magazine Glowacki says that he does not know what will be the shape of the movie. "I do not know what will be mounted, and removed" - Głowacki said. The writer admits that he was not interested in writing the "heroic" movie. "Ridicule is always connected for me with pathos, because without ridiculousness there is no drama. In this way I wanted to show Wałęsa "- said the writer in an interview with" Newsweek ". He added that he gave just few "of grotesque" after all, and thus have the impression that it is not sufficient.
wnas.pl/artykuly/2061-glowacki-nie-interesuje-mnie-film-bohaterski-wajda-zmienil-scenariusz
kultura.gazeta.pl/kultura/1,114438,14071289,Konflikt_Wajdy_z_Glowackim_o_scenariusz__Walesy__.html
pawian
15 Aug 2013
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Yesterday they celebrated the massacre of 300 people by " tank bomb".
Today, the anniversary of the massacre is celebrated as the Old Town Day.
A few Poles who took part in the Rising when young and survived became famous in communist Poland.
Zdzisław Maklakiewicz, actor, joined the Rising when 17. He played great roles after the war:
youtu.be/h7o8HzrgIMw
Yesterday they celebrated the massacre of 300 people by " tank bomb".
Today, the anniversary of the massacre is celebrated as the Old Town Day.
A few Poles who took part in the Rising when young and survived became famous in communist Poland.
Zdzisław Maklakiewicz, actor, joined the Rising when 17. He played great roles after the war:
youtu.be/h7o8HzrgIMw
pawian
15 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
:):):)
6
Both gave up their authoritiarian power and allowed democratic elections.
goofy_the_dog: When will he put to jail ?!
Christianity, goofy, Christianity.
Christianity, goofy, Christianity.
I think i know better what Christianity is
:):):)
pawian:
Let me start with similarities:
Let me start with similarities:
6
Both gave up their authoritiarian power and allowed democratic elections.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
pawian
9 Aug 2013
Love / Adultery- Is it ok for Polish women [41]
It is simple - they couldn`t resist.
But Polish males going abroad is another matter. They can resist easily.
Most of them married.
It is simple - they couldn`t resist.
But Polish males going abroad is another matter. They can resist easily.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
I am afraid you are telling it off the top of your head. How is it possible that the carp voted for Christmas?? :):):) Pinochet immediately closed down the Chilean Parliament after the coup.
So, a source would be greatly appreciated, if you please......
5
Both are highly controvercial figures, admired by some, hated by others. The latter are mostly the families of victims who once perished at the hands of their regimes. The bloodshed they caused brought tears, suffering and pain.
Chilean pain:
The photographs show a group of family members of the "detenidos desaparecidos" (the detained and disappeared).
protest in Poland
Polish pain: among others, families and workmates of miners and workers who got killed by communist regime forces in 1981:
Yes, that was health reason.
They didn`t eliminate it fully, there was only a shift of worship object, the communist comissar, later secretary, that replaced landowners still required having some sort of homage paid.
Which seems attractive to many Poles.
pakol:Pinochet did the coup because the Parliament urged him to do so
Strange that the whole Parliament urged him to do so.....
Strange that the whole Parliament urged him to do so.....
Haven't you heard about the required majority?
I am afraid you are telling it off the top of your head. How is it possible that the carp voted for Christmas?? :):):) Pinochet immediately closed down the Chilean Parliament after the coup.
So, a source would be greatly appreciated, if you please......
Let me start with similarities:
5
Both are highly controvercial figures, admired by some, hated by others. The latter are mostly the families of victims who once perished at the hands of their regimes. The bloodshed they caused brought tears, suffering and pain.
Chilean pain:
The photographs show a group of family members of the "detenidos desaparecidos" (the detained and disappeared).
protest in Poland
Polish pain: among others, families and workmates of miners and workers who got killed by communist regime forces in 1981:
IWhat was never explained though was that he wore darker lenses because he suffered permanent injuries from snow blindness while exiled in Siberia.
Yes, that was health reason.
I can't find it now but several months ago I came across an article about an interview Jaruzelski gave.
They didn`t eliminate it fully, there was only a shift of worship object, the communist comissar, later secretary, that replaced landowners still required having some sort of homage paid.
Oddly, despite what happened to him and his family, he said he was quite fond of Russian culture.
Which seems attractive to many Poles.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
Life / The Art of Complaining by Polish people [47]
Merged: Polish penchant for complaining exploited in ad campaign
Come and Complain is an advertising project presenting amusingly Poland and the Polish culture. It is based on what the Poles like to do the most - complain...
The first clip is obviously stupid: youtu.be/I6Kzh6iGhfQ
Next two are a little better: Sht, I don`t want to complain but these ads are a bit silly....
Merged: Polish penchant for complaining exploited in ad campaign
Come and Complain is an advertising project presenting amusingly Poland and the Polish culture. It is based on what the Poles like to do the most - complain...
The first clip is obviously stupid: youtu.be/I6Kzh6iGhfQ
Next two are a little better: Sht, I don`t want to complain but these ads are a bit silly....
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Strange that the whole Parliament urged him to do so.....
Jaruzelski did too. We will talk about it.
4
Both caused bloodshed:
In the first months after the coup d'état, the military killed thousands of Chilean Leftists, both real and suspected, or forced their "disappearance". The military imprisoned 40,000 political enemies in the National Stadium of Chile; among the tortured and killed desaparecidos (disappeared) were the U.S. citizens Charles Horman, and Frank Teruggi. [37] In October 1973, the Chilean song-writer Víctor Jara, and 70 other political killings were perpetrated by the death squad, Caravan of Death (Caravana de la Muerte).
Poland
On December 16, three days after the introduction of the martial law in Poland, pro-Solidarity miners striking against the declaration of the martial law by General Wojciech Jaruzelski were dispersed by the troops of the Polish army and police.
In the apex of the events, a commando-type special platoon of ZOMO opened the "shoot to kill" fire at the strikers, killing nine of them (Jan Stawisiński, Joachim Gnida, Józef Czekalski, Krzysztof Giza, Ryszard Gzik, Bogusław Kopczak, Andrzej Pełka, Zbigniew Wilk and Zenon Zając) and wounding 21 others. One of the deaths took place after 20 or more days in hospital with severe head-wounds.
Pinochet did the coup because the Parliament urged him to do so
Strange that the whole Parliament urged him to do so.....
And after some time as the situation was better, gave his powers back to the nation.
Jaruzelski did too. We will talk about it.
pawian: Let me start with similarities:
4
Both caused bloodshed:
In the first months after the coup d'état, the military killed thousands of Chilean Leftists, both real and suspected, or forced their "disappearance". The military imprisoned 40,000 political enemies in the National Stadium of Chile; among the tortured and killed desaparecidos (disappeared) were the U.S. citizens Charles Horman, and Frank Teruggi. [37] In October 1973, the Chilean song-writer Víctor Jara, and 70 other political killings were perpetrated by the death squad, Caravan of Death (Caravana de la Muerte).
Poland
On December 16, three days after the introduction of the martial law in Poland, pro-Solidarity miners striking against the declaration of the martial law by General Wojciech Jaruzelski were dispersed by the troops of the Polish army and police.
In the apex of the events, a commando-type special platoon of ZOMO opened the "shoot to kill" fire at the strikers, killing nine of them (Jan Stawisiński, Joachim Gnida, Józef Czekalski, Krzysztof Giza, Ryszard Gzik, Bogusław Kopczak, Andrzej Pełka, Zbigniew Wilk and Zenon Zając) and wounding 21 others. One of the deaths took place after 20 or more days in hospital with severe head-wounds.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Again, like some other interlocutors here, you don`t see the whole complexity of the topic. :):):)
3
Both organised coup de tats and took authoritarian power in their countries:
Chile
Poland
Sunglasses and general's rank are the only similarities
Again, like some other interlocutors here, you don`t see the whole complexity of the topic. :):):)
Let me start with similarities:
3
Both organised coup de tats and took authoritarian power in their countries:
Chile
Poland
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Unfortunately, your judgement capacity is heavily encumbered with bias, I am afraid. :):):)
That is a good one! (but idealistic mostly means stupid) :):):)
OK, let`s say that Jaruzelski in 1943, when joined Soviets, wasn`t idealistic, but pragmatic.
Can we finish the war period now?
Pawian, you are defending him, stop talking nonesense. I can judge fromcthe way you form your posts about a butcher of Wujek.
Unfortunately, your judgement capacity is heavily encumbered with bias, I am afraid. :):):)
Mature men fully understand what is at stake and often they have children and family. Whereas 20 years old are a lot more idealistic.
That is a good one! (but idealistic mostly means stupid) :):):)
OK, let`s say that Jaruzelski in 1943, when joined Soviets, wasn`t idealistic, but pragmatic.
Can we finish the war period now?
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Yes, for some time Soviets considered those deported Poles as Soviet citizens. About 150.000 Poles were forced to join the Red Army and they fought as early as in Soviet Finnish Winter War 1940.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%9346)
Yes, true. But don`t miss the fact that misled by their commanders, they didn`t fully realise all aspects of the military and political situation and in result most of them died and the city was razed to the ground. Today we truly consider them heroes, but don`t we regret the loss of lives too???
hahaha I was waiting for it, indeed. A "truly patriotic" Pole is asking another about his background..... So lovely..... :):)
First of all. Why do you think I am defending Jaruzelski? :):):) Aren`t you clever enough to see that I am only trying to help you realise the complexity of conditions he was thrown into during the war?
Again, I will repeat it: if we talk about Jaruzelski`s choice during war time, I am far from being judgemental.
Was it common to draft exiled Polish nationals into the Soviet Army?
Yes, for some time Soviets considered those deported Poles as Soviet citizens. About 150.000 Poles were forced to join the Red Army and they fought as early as in Soviet Finnish Winter War 1940.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%9346)
If he was twenty then he understood perfectly what he was doing. By his age uprisers in warsaw willingly went to battle knowing that they could die.
Yes, true. But don`t miss the fact that misled by their commanders, they didn`t fully realise all aspects of the military and political situation and in result most of them died and the city was razed to the ground. Today we truly consider them heroes, but don`t we regret the loss of lives too???
A question arises..why do u defend him ?
Some roots possibly?
An ordinary Pole wouldnt talk that way...
Some roots possibly?
An ordinary Pole wouldnt talk that way...
hahaha I was waiting for it, indeed. A "truly patriotic" Pole is asking another about his background..... So lovely..... :):)
First of all. Why do you think I am defending Jaruzelski? :):):) Aren`t you clever enough to see that I am only trying to help you realise the complexity of conditions he was thrown into during the war?
Again, I will repeat it: if we talk about Jaruzelski`s choice during war time, I am far from being judgemental.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Yes, they were great patriots. But when did they make their crucial decisions to object to the end? When they were mature men, at 40, 45 years of age, they were both older than Jaruzelski by 20, nearly 30 years. He made his decision to go with Soviets when he was 20. What the hell do you expect????
That is why I called you a pretencious computer hero because you are so superficial in judgement and practically know nothing about life and people.
Not so fast, we shall discuss it sooner or later, now we are talking about first choices taken during the war. Could you hold on for a while??? :)_:):)
Is it the current list of paper heroic loudmouths?? Thanks. :):):)
A hero and a man of honour are people like Sp. Gen. Nil-Fieldorf... Or Sp. Rot Pilecki.
Both sacraficed their lifes.
Both sacraficed their lifes.
Yes, they were great patriots. But when did they make their crucial decisions to object to the end? When they were mature men, at 40, 45 years of age, they were both older than Jaruzelski by 20, nearly 30 years. He made his decision to go with Soviets when he was 20. What the hell do you expect????
That is why I called you a pretencious computer hero because you are so superficial in judgement and practically know nothing about life and people.
Jabberwocky was a traitor, he was serving the Soviets, never cared less about Poland.
For wujek and the rest he should be courtmarshalled and treated as traitor in an old good fashion.
For wujek and the rest he should be courtmarshalled and treated as traitor in an old good fashion.
Not so fast, we shall discuss it sooner or later, now we are talking about first choices taken during the war. Could you hold on for a while??? :)_:):)
Ps: nile i think you have a place in our group, zimmy, me, pol3, ironside and wielkipolak !
Join the club!
Join the club!
Is it the current list of paper heroic loudmouths?? Thanks. :):):)
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
We can get to it soon, now we are discussing war period, don`t jump dates, please.
Sorry, only after you show me you make such a choice yourself, I will believe you are not another paper hero who cries out loud about principles... :):) Sorry, Nile, majtki w dół, pieniądze na stół. Strzel sobie w łeb w odruchu solidarności a Ci uwierzę że masz zasady o których piszesz. :):):):) So far your production in the forum didn`t convince me you really cherish any valuable principles.
Jaruzelski worked for Nkvd, he was known as a very ideologically correct.
We can get to it soon, now we are discussing war period, don`t jump dates, please.
pawian:Actually, he had no choice.
Not true, he had a choice.
Not true, he had a choice.
For example?
Others who refused being taught got a bullet in the back of their heads and were buried in mass graves.
Sorry, only after you show me you make such a choice yourself, I will believe you are not another paper hero who cries out loud about principles... :):) Sorry, Nile, majtki w dół, pieniądze na stół. Strzel sobie w łeb w odruchu solidarności a Ci uwierzę że masz zasady o których piszesz. :):):):) So far your production in the forum didn`t convince me you really cherish any valuable principles.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Listen, I am probably older than you. I have already learnt that people who cry out about principles are the first to break them when bad times come. That is why I stick to what I said no matter if you edit your posts or not - it is easy to be a hero in your cosy room and to judge people who had to take extreme decisions which were of life or death importance.
For example?
I edited my post.
If you are not able live according to principles,that is your problem. Don't try and second guess other people.
If you are not able live according to principles,that is your problem. Don't try and second guess other people.
Listen, I am probably older than you. I have already learnt that people who cry out about principles are the first to break them when bad times come. That is why I stick to what I said no matter if you edit your posts or not - it is easy to be a hero in your cosy room and to judge people who had to take extreme decisions which were of life or death importance.
Not true, he had a choice.
For example?
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Hmm, we shall talk about it soon. :)
Are you another brave hero who is tough before his/her computer but has no idea what life was like at the time when Jaruzelski made crucial desicions????? :):):)
I am not making strict judgements on his choices during the war due to extremely complicated circumstances he found himself in. Actually, he had no choice.
Good.
Hmm, we shall talk about it soon. :)
That would make him not only a traitor but a coward.
Are you another brave hero who is tough before his/her computer but has no idea what life was like at the time when Jaruzelski made crucial desicions????? :):):)
So, according to you his choices are commendable.
I am not making strict judgements on his choices during the war due to extremely complicated circumstances he found himself in. Actually, he had no choice.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
I am afraid you are wrong - both wore some kind of sunglasses, be it for image improvement or health reasons.
2
Both were generals, head commanders of their armies:
The problem is how to understand far more - good or bad things.
I am afraid you are wrong - both wore some kind of sunglasses, be it for image improvement or health reasons.
Let me start with similarities:
2
Both were generals, head commanders of their armies:
who did far more for Poland than you ever will.
The problem is how to understand far more - good or bad things.
pawian
9 Aug 2013
History / Jaruzelski vs Pinochet [120]
Of course, putting Jaruzelski next to Stalin or Hitler is gross exaggeration.
There is a better match for him - Augusto Pinochet, military dictator of Chile for 16 years.
Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte, more commonly known as Augusto Pinochet (Spanish pronunciation: [auˈɣusto pinoˈtʃet]),[note 1] (25 November 1915 - 10 December 2006) was an army general and dictator of Chile from 1973 until transferring power to a democratically elected president in 1990. He was the commander-in-chief of the Chilean army from 1973 to 1998 and president of the Government Junta of Chile from 1973 to 1981.[2]
Wojciech Witold Jaruzelski (pronounced [ˈvɔi̯t͡ɕɛx jaruˈzɛlskʲi] ( listen); born 6 July 1923) is a retired Polish military officer and Communist politician. He was the last Communist leader of Poland from 1981 to 1989, Prime Minister from 1981 to 1985 and the country's head of state from 1985 to 1990. He was also the last commander-in-chief of the Polish People's Army (LWP). He resigned from power after the Polish Round Table Agreement in 1989 that led to democratic elections in Poland.
Let me start with similarities:
1 Sunglasses
funerals of such people as Hitler, Stalin, Bierut and Jaruzelski would scream out for forceful signs of disapproval and opposition
Of course, putting Jaruzelski next to Stalin or Hitler is gross exaggeration.
There is a better match for him - Augusto Pinochet, military dictator of Chile for 16 years.
Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte, more commonly known as Augusto Pinochet (Spanish pronunciation: [auˈɣusto pinoˈtʃet]),[note 1] (25 November 1915 - 10 December 2006) was an army general and dictator of Chile from 1973 until transferring power to a democratically elected president in 1990. He was the commander-in-chief of the Chilean army from 1973 to 1998 and president of the Government Junta of Chile from 1973 to 1981.[2]
Wojciech Witold Jaruzelski (pronounced [ˈvɔi̯t͡ɕɛx jaruˈzɛlskʲi] ( listen); born 6 July 1923) is a retired Polish military officer and Communist politician. He was the last Communist leader of Poland from 1981 to 1989, Prime Minister from 1981 to 1985 and the country's head of state from 1985 to 1990. He was also the last commander-in-chief of the Polish People's Army (LWP). He resigned from power after the Polish Round Table Agreement in 1989 that led to democratic elections in Poland.
Let me start with similarities:
1 Sunglasses
pawian
9 Aug 2013
Travel / Sites with interesting photos of Poland [24]
Excellent photos of pre-war Warsaw: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1595204
Excellent photos of pre-war Warsaw: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1595204
pawian
8 Aug 2013
Life / Relation in Poland to Orthodox Christians? [117]
What makes you think it is a movie and not real life drama?
What makes you think it is a movie and not real life drama?