Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Oh absolutely. It's nothing to do with me. I was just musing on the subject but of course it's up to Americans. However I think it is valid to comment as the American members of this forum seem to think that Poles should be armed. There is simply no necessity for it in Poland. One could say that in the same way that I, as an Irish person coming from one of the safest countries in the world, cannot relate to a society as violent as America, Americans can't relate to the relatively peaceful European societies. Despite the fact that they are drawn to more peaceful countries, they're afraid to live in them without having a gun in their house or on their person.

Interestingly, there was an Irish teenager, a sixteen year old girl who literally had to run for her life in that Florida school shooting. Her family just moved to America. She lives a normal life in Dublin for sixteen years and then within a couple of months of arriving in America she's being chased out of her school by a maniac with an assault rifle. In Ireland as indeed in Poland, there is close to zero likelihood of a mass shooting of any kind anywhere - and that's how life should be in a civilized country.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]


To those with the right resources, there are a lot of checkable facts about him such as his claim that he attended the Hasmonean Secondary school in Hendon. It's not that big and I know people who went there myself but they're older than Daniels. Still any past pupils who were in his year would remember him. A determined journalist could easily ferret out the truth if they were bothered.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Apparently the real link is between low income and crime which is not unique to the USA and is hardly a surprising fact. However in other civilized countries with a multi-cultural society and lower income groups, there isn't the same level of deaths from guns that you see in the USA and that's because there are far greater controls on gun ownership. You certainly don't see toddlers shooting people accidentally in any civilized country in the world other than America.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Very good point. I did a quick Google and apparently the most violent state is Nevada which has only a 42% non-Hispanic white population and the least violent is Maine which has 94% non-Hispanic white.


Yes, it's really the Divided States, not the United States. It doesn't work because it's an artificially created country which was forcibly united as the result of a war. There are some states which I'm sure would be quite happy to have an unarmed police force and unarmed public but others who love guns and still live in 1790.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

My suggestion would be a gradual programme of disarmament and police reform spread over a number of years in stages.

Start with the state that has the least amount of gun crime, whichever that is and introduce a pilot scheme there.

Start by retraining the police force there in policing without guns, like the Irish Gardai so that there are armed response units available but the average guy on the beat doesn't carry a gun.

While that training is taking place, have a voluntary surrendering of arms, either legally or illegally held, no questions asked by the authorities. Let's say this is done over two years.

Then when the police are ready to roll in their new form and the public disarmed to a certain degree, do the same thing the Irish Gardai do when they suspect that guns are on the premises and send a proper counter terrorist unit to take the guns from known criminals or those likely to be harbouring guns for criminal purposes.

Then give it a further two/three years and take a look at the crime rate and gun deaths, homicides, accidental or otherwise for the total period. If there's enough of a reduction to justify continuing the scheme, then gradually introduce it across the country over a number of years and at the end of say 25 years, you should see a change. However, it has to be done in conjunction with social initiatives and other things that address some of the underlying problems that lead to this mess in the first place.

As I say, that's just a suggestion - anybody else got other ideas?

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Well you see now, that's taking aggressive action and I know it seems odd to say so, but you have to do the opposite. You can't browbeat people into disarming which is really what we're talking about. In a sense you have a state of war in America and what's needed is peace talks. You need a huge national initiative, public debate and discussion on a massive level and meetings between the government and the police with community leaders and key figures in the worst communities where the gun crime is at its highest levels. You also need total reform of the police force. It's the work of years, maybe even decades, but it has to start somewhere. You could also do with having somebody coming in from outside to act as mediators. But unfortunately America is a bit too arrogant ever to ask for help. That'll be its downfall in the end.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

'Morning Maf, how's tricks? I was just wondering how this rather old thread had got revived and I see that back in December somebody asked "how do hunting clubs work in Poland?" I think at this stage, we've probably discussed America's violent crime and gun problems sufficiently......

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


The reason you have God only knows how many illegal guns is because you have at least an equal number of legal ones. It's relatively easy access to guns that's the problem. So until you deal with that, your problem will continue to get worse. What would you, as an American citizen suggest as a starting point?


For that, the Irish guards have the ERU (emergency response unit) which was formed as a counter-terrorist unit back in the 1970s during The Troubles. To join the ERU a Garda must have four years experience in uniform and a perfect disciplinary record with no incidents. Because they're a small elite force, they're much more highly trained it would be possible to do if all police were armed as they are in the USA. Although the ERU has attended hundreds if not thousands of incidents throughout its formation (and including during the Troubles) they have killed only nine people and no officers have been shot. They only attend major incidents like an armed robbery but they also do house searches and arrests where gun violence is considered likely, for example if it's an organized crime gang.

There is also the regular ARU, armed support unit who are a bit less high level but again you have to have four years experience to join.

Bascially there are are heavily armed police available in Ireland for serious emergencies, but the average Garda on patrol in the street doesn't carry a gun and hopefully never will.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Unarmed police + unarmed public = a peaceful country. And the point I'm making is that when there is an armed felon, the Irish police can deal with it. They're not cowards, so why would Americans be?? It's in the training. If you know you have no gun but may have to disarm somebody, I think you grow a set of balls pretty quickly. It sorts out the men from the boys, in that you only get recruits who are ready to deal with a gunman whilst having no gun themselves..


Where do you think the IRA got their guns from?? Or the UVF (the Protestant terrorists in the North of Ireland)? Nowadays there are armed criminal gangs who mostly shoot each other,but sometimes guns are used in robberies organized by those gangs or hangers on who get their guns from them. Gun crime is still rare in Ireland though. And the police themselves have always resisted any suggestion that they should be armed.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


And that's why you should have an unarmed police force as we do in Ireland. The Irish Guards have disarmed guys wielding guns, machetes, the works. They always wade in. No reason why Americans can't do the same. We also have armed response units who can be there in a few minutes if necessary but they are rarely called out but even an off-duty Garda will get stuck in. I don't believe American police are cowards, it's the training and ethos that's the problem.

irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-firing-shots-in-ballyfermot-disarmed-and-arrested-1.2094100

independent.ie/irish-news/fearless-garda-armed-with-hurley-halts-gunman-attack-26515968.html

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Presumably if you want a gun for self-defence you would want to keep one in the bedroom within easy reach in case of a night time intruder. Now Maf, would you leave a loaded handgun within reach of your bed if you had a two year old in the house? Ok, you can keep it in a locked drawer of your nightstand but then you have to remember to keep locking and unlocking the drawer each night and morning. It can easily be overlooked. A toddler can't be educated about gun safety.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

But would the enemies have been so scary if guns weren't freely available in the first place?? There is a chicken and egg element there. I understand about people in remote countryside areas being vulnerable but again, if guns weren't so easily available, unwelcome visitors would be less likely to have them and you could probably deal with such people using a few well trained attack dogs.

I certainly know that Irish farmers have used dogs very effectively. I know a farmer who had a German Shepherd which successfully held an intruder until the police arrived. He just pinned him against the wall and kept him there. I also knew a guy who managed a betting shop in a very rough part of Dublin, where being robbed was quite a possibility and he had, rather than a gun under the counter, a German Shepherd under the counter, literally!

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


And I'll bet that your family never needed to use those guns to defend themselves from criminals or the government.........

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

Fair point. However, as an Irish person, I cannot get my head around the idea that it's a recurring thing in America, that school kids are slaughtered by maniac gunmen. We have virtually no gun ownership in Ireland and no such mass murders. Surely anybody can see that there's a connection. Also one really needs to start asking questions about a society that produces such angry, alienated individuals. America needsto stop congratulating itself for being 'awesome' and start reflecting on that fact that it's a huge failure as a nation in many respects.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

Here's a staggering fact regarding gun deaths in the USA:

The death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

I really don't know how anybody can call that normal or acceptable.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

I'm willing to relocate if somebody will nominate me for the American presidency - it's about time you had another Irish one :D I'll sort out your gun laws for you :D

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

It seems to me that the advocates of gun ownership are basically arguing that the way to make a violent, lawless society more law abiding and peaceful is to let everybody own a gun.................strange logic.

As for the idea of having to be protected against potential 'tyranny' by your own government, HELLO - ballot box. Use it wisely and you won't have that problem.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


Back in the 1700s............time to revisit that piece of legislation I would say.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


I think people do have a survival instinct. They just don't necessarily need guns to demonstrate that. I can't speak for Swedes but in Ireland we have an unarmed police force and there are numerous examples of the public getting stuck in and disarming and apprehending criminals. Just a few weeks ago this happened in Dublin:

rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0102/930590-tallaght-robbery

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


No Sig Sauer. You're talking about an American gun culture that has its roots in the nineteenth century (if not the eighteenth). There is no place for firearms in a civilized society in the 21st century. All around Europe, students go to college every day without the need to carry a gun to protect themselves. Why do you need to do it in America?


What they have in common is that some Americans seem to perceive Europe as 'dangerous' due to the influx of migrants and you yourself have made numerous references to assaults, rapes and terrorist attacks but in fact the chances of being murdered in a public place by a random lunatic are statistically far greater in America than they are in Europe. What happened in Florida recently was basically the equivalent of a terrorist attack and it's all too frequent in your homeland.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

Now as a European citizen, I find it shocking that a young person in a highly developed and ostensibly civilized country would find themselves in that position. Is it not time that Americans began to take a long, hard look at their society and rather than lecturing Europe about their migrant crisis etc, should people like yourself not be devoting themselves to curing the various cancers that seem to permeate American society and which America seems to think normal or at least acceptable.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

Sig Sauer, an American will never convince the average European citizen that it is either necessary or desirable for civilians to own guns for the purposes of self defence. This is quite simply a cultural gap that can't be bridged.

Genealogy / Want to find a person [770]

Peter, who told you about the accident? They must have heard it from somebody else so maybe you should try to follow the chain backwards, if you know what I mean. Do you know any other Polish people? Could you get one to help you, by phoning round the Wrocław hospitals?

Here's a link to a list of hospitals in Wrocław with contact numbers:

The first two on the list are public hospitals, not sure about all the others, but some will be.

wroclaw.pl/en/hospitals-and-clinics

Best of luck.

Law / Polish EU Drivers Licence - can I get one the easy way (by paying for it)? [185]

Well of course they could get it wrong and they frequently do; they have very creative merging techniques :) But in this case, I think it seems more likely than not, that the poster was referring to a driver's licence. There is a difference between assuming and inferring - inferring is something you'll find MENSA members are rather good at.

Law / Polish EU Drivers Licence - can I get one the easy way (by paying for it)? [185]


Don't try to be a smart arse. You know quite well he's talking about a driver's licence.It was the Mods who merged it so presumably they had reason to think, from the original thread started by Ernix, that it was a driver's licence to which he was referring - and if not, then I'd say it was a jolly good guess, what ho Jeeves :D

Law / Polish EU Drivers Licence - can I get one the easy way (by paying for it)? [185]

@Ernix, if you're not a good enough driver to pass a driving test, then you shouldn't be on the road endangering peoples' lives and if you are able to drive, then take a bloody test.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]


I think that if one is going to have, let's say a law of consequences, then it should operate within the boundaries of basic common sense and I would have zero tolerance for that kind of nonsense. Common sense and common courtesy should be the boundary within which 'hate speech' is defined. A politician, be they conservative or left wing, should not use 'unparliamentary language'. If they stay within that boundary then I think they have an absolute right to make their speeches and be listened to whether I agree with their policies, their opinions etc or not.


I think to be honest that that's a recurring problem on this forum, but an interesting one. Members who are either American or Americanized have a different perspective on the world to the Europeans. Remember the other day, when you were somewhat shocked and horrified by my indifference to Zionism - well that's because I'm not American and it isn't an issue for me as an Irish person. By the same token, post-Brexit maintenance of the Common Travel Area and avoidance of a hard border in Ireland is of no concern to America but is to the EU, as it influences the Brexit deal regarding the Customs Union and free movement of people.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]


That's not quite true. There has been a tacit acknowledgement for a long time of how powerful non-physical attacks can be. That's why mental cruelty/abuse can be cited in a divorce case. And now cyber bullying is being recognized. Bullying through social exclusion is very common amongst teenagers and can be found in many adult settings and the workplace too. I personally think that 'hateful rhetoric' as you call it, should be liable for consequences if it's uttered in a public setting because it breaches the laws of civilized behaviour and social responsibility which we all share in maintaining.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]


You're talking about America again. I asked why it was in your opinion that Jews in Eastern Europe were less integrated than Jews in the West, meaning Western Europe.

Reform Judaism has its roots in the 18th century Age of Enlightenment as it's known which was a cultural phenomenon throughout Western Europe, not anything to do specifically with Jews. It's the roots of our more liberal way of thinking all over the civilized world. It touched Judaism as well and resulted in the Haskalah movement and as early as the 1820s there were Jewish communities in Western Europe with mixed seating in the synagogues, no circumcision, etc. Eastern Europe was a different kettle of fish. It's an interesting subject and worth studying in more detail. You should consider reading Haskalah and Hasidism in the Kingdom of Poland - A History of Conflict, if you want to be better informed and more knowledgeable, you know, have some in depth knowledge.


Actually the British military police offered to send any discovered deserters back but Anders refused the offer so the British decided to reduce the number of Jewish immigrant licences to Palestine by the same number as the deserters.

And let's give a mention to the 30,000 Jews who volunteered and joined the British forces in Palestine. In fact that's where some of the Anders deserters ended up, serving with the British.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]


The figures were actually for ethnic minorities, not Jews alone so my mistake there. By a directive of High Command ethnic minorities should not comprise more than 10% of the total forces and 5% of Non Commissioned Officers. This was in late 1941 when about a quarter of the army was Jewish. There were to be no ethnic minorities recruited for airborne units and only 5% fpr armoured units. It's quite specific.