History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@jon357

Yeah that's how my gfs familt survived. Although they were French jews and they had it way different than pl jews. There was no Paris ghetto or Auschwitz in france. It was rather easy for them to get into Canada then us as a just in case move. They traded most of their possessions for diamonds, smuggled them and went abroad.

And yes traditionally the men studied went to yeshiva and all that, the women were encouraged to stay at home and pop out babies. In the more religious communities people are married as teens often through arrangements between the parents.

It also depends on the environment. Sometimes family, photos, memories is all one has and would prefer death over losing that. If I were to lose my entire family id rather join them in death than live in misery. Just depends on personal preference.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

That's the problem with communism as the internationals lyrics proves it. Not everyone wants to abandon their traditions. Some people are happy as they are and don't want to give up their ancient traditions. Such is their right. Not everyone wants multiculturalism feminism or a communal society especially poland as we've had a rather bad experience with commies

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@jon357

Exactly it doesn't make a different. Death is death and the same perhaps roughly more poles died than jews.

And no throughout history the average poles Germans British focused more on physical type work I.e. agriculture industry etc. Most people weren't even literate in Europe till the past 200 100 years or so. However the difference is with Jew for example just about everyone was literate even if only to read hebrew scripture

And no lyzko not falling for any stereotypes. Besides all stereotypes have a certain degree of truth to them otherwise they wouldn't exist.

Life / How are electric cars doing in Poland? [413]

Speaking of silly comments weg you appear to not know what you're talking about so perhaps we should throw your uniformed comment in the bin.

Allow me to educate you since I actually know a thing or two about cars as I restore repair maintain and do all work on my cars myself as well as subscribe to car and driver:

Lambo hybrid/electric - none in production, concept and development only
Rari hybrid/electric - one production model that is a hybrid. Also one of the most expensive Ferraris recently one auctioned for 7 mil
Bentley - just starting plugin hybrid concept and development only on the suvs that are set to come out. If Bentley wasn't owned by vw they probably wouldn't be doing this. I predict a flop

BMW - has a few models they just recently came out with I.e. i8 which is pretty damn sexy actually but the i3 is hideous and costs well over 40k. Vast majority of BMW remain gas in north America with some diesel in europe and elsewhere.

Mercedesb- 3 models only out of dozens of offerings. All unpopular and unreliable. Phasing out s class gradually. Their blue diesels are far superior and popular. Also the cheapest one is a c class for 50k - around 10 15k more than the starting price of a c class and that model is basically just their cheapest 2 liter 4 banger with an electric engine that has a 10 mile range

Also we use to own a continental gt. Even though its gas you have to plug it into the wall to charge all the electronics or you'll have a dead battery the next morning. So a plug in wouldn't be a far stretch however most Bentley owners don't want a whiny little electric motor and generally prefer a big guzzling v12. Its not about the money for this class of buyers or gas prices. Its about having a large luxurious car with a powerful engine and lots of torque which an electric engine just doesn't give that same feel.

The only hybrid cars that are going to remain popular are the cheaper cars like Honda accords Toyota Corolla stuff like that. If someone wants a German car they can get an entry level BMW 3 or merc c for around 35 40k depending on options but the electric and hybrid ones cost way more. Even the hybrid Honda accord is almost 10k more than a loaded one when brand new.

Nothing kills a driving experience like a whiny toy sounding engine with no torque or exhaust sound when you punch it. Ill keep my American small block v8 German v8s and v12s and turbo diesels thank you very much.

Life / How are electric cars doing in Poland? [413]

@weg04

Doesn't mean polish people are willing to spend money on them. German hybrids are junk. Their diesels and gas are good but for now only the japs and Americans known how to make a decent hybrid. The Germans with the exception of vs/Audi/Porsche corp are just now starting to get out of diesels/gas and more into.hybrid and electric and at least for BMW and Mercedes-Benz its not going to well for now.

People who can afford a 70k 100k car don't care about gas prices. The only reason why they'd but a hybrid for that much money is if they care about being green.

Hyrbids are for people who want to save on gas or of they are the environmental types. Most wealthy poles who but Porsche suvs and BMW or Mercedes sedans don't fit into this category.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@jon357

Yeah he def did especially after 1941 and as things got more desperate for him. And no there aren't any rules quotas (unless you count affirmative action but that's a different topic). I'm merely saying that its Jewish tradition to be educated esp for males hence why many jews become successful as education and success in a career are highly correlated. But to answer your question yes there are a disproportionate amount of chines e in manufacturing because that's what they chose to specialize in. China is known as the factory of the world. It is what it is... Not good nor bad. Doesn't mean that others can't be also manufacturers its merely stating that as a nation and as a percentage of the worldwide population and economy, China and the chinese are the dominant ones in manufacturing.

Im merely stating fact that there is a disproportionate amount of jews in high finance media politics etc. Its a well known fact. It doesn't bother me personally but it can bother some people who use it as a scapegoat. Personally I don't care.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

Poles were most certainly targets of assembly line mass extermination by both Nazis and Soviets. How could you say such a thing? Hitler stated on August 22 1939 "kill without reprieve all men, women and children of the polish race." The Nazis would march through villages shooting at any civilians as they pleased. Entire towns got massacres and still Nazis reinhard heydrich complained too few poles were being killed.

Stalin was even worse because most ethnic poles were loyal to the ak and government in exile and he exacerbated tensions between jews and poles to repress ethnic poles. The vast majority of the security services were jews and Russians with power to do whatever they wanted to poles. Only problem was non communist jews who originally thought they'd be safe since their bretheren were in ub ended up getting jailed or killed esp if they were thought to be anti commie.

There were plenty of massacres of ethnic poles by both Nazis and Soviets and their puppets katyn volhynia czestochowa bydgoszcz there were tons. All of Warsaw was decimated after we fought on behalf of all those who lived in poland jew and pole alike in the Warsaw uprising only to have the entire city bombed after some 60 days of fighting - we fought longer in just 1 uprising than all of France did when they got invaded. Attention only shifted to exterminating jews after Hitler realized his plans to deport the jews to Madagascar wasn't feasible.

No matter how you look at it as many ethnic poles died at Nazi hands as jews did. If you include all slavs its several times more than the total amount of jews. Death is death

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525?v=5F5E7462DD9B28912285B2F7FD52B0CB

Part of what Netanyahu says about hitler is correct - Hitler didn't want to kill all the jews at first. He wanted to deport them to Madagascar but it proved too expensive and the allies blockades much of the seas. Don't forget hardly anyone wanted to take in Jewish refugees during ww2 - ships carrying jews were rejected from us Canada Cuba etc in the late 30s and very early 40s.

David irving stated there were gas chambers stayed holocaust did occur so he's not totally a holocaust denier. What he did wrong was downplay Hitler's knowledge and the scope of nazi atrocities. He painted Hitler as a unified of Europeans which he certainly was not - at least not for German blooded European. Its not just those guys though that get put into a holocaust denier or at least anti Semite category there's surprisingly quite a bit and famous people too like bobby Fischer Marlon brando pat buchanan etc.

The problem is due to the disproportionate amount of jews, most of whom are zionist, in position of high finance, media, politics etc many people from common workers to even educated types use them as a scapegoat esp in sociopolitical context. Sometimes its not too far fetched for example if I were to say 'the jews pushed 3rd world immigration on the us' it certainly exaggerates the roles Jewish politicians played but nonetheless the 1965 open immigration act was created and pushed by Jacob javitz and his buddies. Its been that way for centuries because well quite frankly jews value education, learning, and moving onto better and bigger things throughout their own lives and future generations. So yes many jews do end up in positions of high authority but that doesn't mean that there's no other types of people I.e. wasps Hispanics slavs blacks other Europeans in those positions. Also there are far more jews that are plain old everyday middle and upper middle class types than jews who are in the .0001%. The truth is the Jewish mechanic down the street or antique dealer in the downtown area of my suburb gets just as screwed as any goy by some of the policies made up top.

A lot of ppl have beef with Hollywood and political jews more so over their insensitivies to the masses and some people like Marlon brando will go publicly go voice it. Or those who support bds. However I still think the majority of those people would agree the holocaust did occur though.

The one thing that bugs me is unlike any other mass murder genocide extermination etc througout history its almost as if examination and research which challenges existing nuances, even if new facts can be totally proven scientifically such research is generally discouraged with the holocaust. You can even be put in jail in certain countries for not agreeing with some parts based on your own research or whatever unlike say katyn srebnica great purge etc. Fortunately some Jews like yehuda bauer did want to ultimately come up with a death toll at least at Auschwitz in his case. Actually the court decided in 2000 during the irving v lipstadt trial that 'hundreds of thousands of jews' died in Auschwitz so far lower than the original pre 1989 number and closer to the 1 mil estimate of yehuda bauer who imo is most accurate, till more research is allowed to be done anyway.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@gregy741

Yes I mean of course there's differences depending on the course of the way, where you lived, how you suffered, etc. Even the camp you arrived in could be more like a jail with not enough food for everyone like a pow camp or Nazi camps where slavs and Jews alike were killed alike.

Still tho. I think anyone would prefer being put in a ghetto (full of poverty typhus etc and not knowing when you'll be dragged off to a comp ) over being shot in the head. So perhaps yeah maybe poles lived a bit better in a home in the village or whatever but nonetheless we shared the often shared the exact sme fate as the jews

Not matter how you look at it on polish soil the same amount of jews died and poles died. They shared camps together. It wasn't as if poles too didn't have their stuff confiscated families torn apart and being forced to do slave labor till you collapse out of exhaustion and are then sent to be killed. With the exception of a few details like where say jews lived vs Catholics or that jews were made to wear a star is degregation and all. However poles too were degraded humiliated our best books burned and poles were beat up arrested and shot - just like many jews. With the exception of a few details, our suffering was similar and it ended in death for both 3 mil pl jews and 3 mil ethnic poles

Nonetheless the same amount of both groups died and death is the ultimate abuse, the worst form of punishment for a perceived enemy, maltreatment etc.

I just want people to recognize this that there's more to the Nazi conquest of Europe and killing jews because the truth is far more slavs died in the war than jews and the amount of ethnic poles that perished in poland are nearly the same 2.7 to 3 mil number. (Institute of national remembrance)

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

No matter how you look at it in poland roughly the same amount of jews died as ethnic poles. 2.77 to 3 mil according to the institute of national remembrance. Death is death .... Doesn't matter really how someone goes about it. Whether its a bombing gassing shot to the head the result is all the same - death.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_the_Polish_nation

Read the bottom on himmlers statement on how he says to totally annhilaye the polish people

He says 85% of poles are to be killed 15% used as slave labor and later ALL poles will disappear from this world. He specifically writes the German nation considers the elimination of all polish people its chief task.

Our suffering was just as bad. We lost the same amount of ethnic poles as jews in poland. Yet hardly anyone knows this many poles died under Nazi hands and then later the Soviets. I'm just saying that no Jews and their holocaust wasn't the only mass genocide and attempted total ethnic cleansing. Both poles and Jews to be wiped out completely according to the Nazis.

Also you're incorrect about most Jews immediately going right away into gas chambers. If a person was too frail, disformed, could barely walk etc then they were killed right away. However everyone who was even somewhat able bodied despite being already crammed in a cattle car w little to no food or water, were forced to work in the camps. Once they were overworked they were killed whether by gassing blunt force trauma etc.

However I do remember one story of jews being lead down a maze with like a ticket booth to give up valuables and receive a ticket for it. However they would then enter a large building that looked like a Jewish temple and had a star of David on it. Once the people were in they were gassed. So yes the jews did suffer in different manners like that one which ethnic poles didn't endure as much. Nonetheless again death is death - we too were gassed, maybe not in such a deceptive way like the one I just explained but we, both poles and jews, were worked to desth, starved, shot, besten, experimented on, forced to clean up and cremate the dead, and all the other stuff that jews went through also.

There really isn't much difference between the way jews poles etc were treated at camps. We were all to be used till we died. I know the holocaust is a tragedy. Ill repeat again, I wish more people knew that it wasn't just the jews who perished but also tons of gays commies Russians poles etc. However those facts are put aside and it seems like only rhebsuffering is the jews is really what's remember when all these people deserve equal pittance and perhaps reparations which the jews already received as well.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

While I do agree that the final solution was uniquely against the jews, Hitler did tell the Nazis and wermacht to annihilate poland, destroy the culture and mercilessly wipe out the nation and people. Ill have to find his exact quote.

Either Hitler said these things to rally the troops or because he really meant it. In any case yes the jews were the ones chosen to be totally annihilated.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

Some comedy out of sweden on this topic to lighten the mood

youtu.be/yBjbvObs-CU

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

There were some poles who were forced to serve in the wermacht just as there were some poles who were forced to serve in the red army. Some people joined out of opportunism other out of fear for their own and their family's lives. War makes people do crazy things.

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

An interest and why I post here are two different t things. I didn't feel like writing out the dozens of different things that I'm interested in so I chose one and I did it in a joking manner. Never have I used this site to try to hook up with some random girl over the web.

You're reading into things too deeply

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

@Ironside

Honestly id like to make a forum similar to this in the fall or winter when I'm less busy. There's plenty of forums for various countries like Germany China uk etc. With poland its rather limited- at least those where english is the primary language. There's only like 2 or 3 options with this being the largest and most popular. Unfortunately every thread on here just about has insults, name calling, trolling, etc.

I would welcome everyone thats on pf but I would appoint mods and enforce a policy to prevent the place from becoming a pissing contest and ban/suspend members who verbally abuse others or cause problems for them in real life.

But yes since I came back it doesn't appear that pf has gotten any better. If anything its gotten even more toxic and we lost members like atch who weren't perfect but at least they didn't come here just to argue, name call and cause problems

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

@Ironside
Oh I wasn't aware that kaprys is a female. I guess that makes 2 fairly regular female posters left on of lol.

Besides who ever said I come to pf for the purpose of talking to women? I don't know where you got this from man. Idc what sex a poster is.

I have a women already. That's why it kind of irks me when people say I'm some kind of anti Semite bc she's a French jew. I'm against Zionists not Jews. If I hated Jews so much i wouldn't be dating jews or have Jewish friends. I can discuss and debate theology with them and compare/contrast scriptures in a way that I couldnt with non jews. In fact I've even attended services with my gf her family and my friends. I've also been to bahai and orthodox services . just bc I'm catholic doesn't mean I only have to go to a catholic church and not know anything about other religions and their theology

Anyway as a pole born and raised and my deep love for my country its traditions the polish people I come on here to discuss poland and polish affairs not to meet women. Idk where that came from... Unless you're joking or being sarcastic. I come here and post usually in the morning as I'm waiting for the train or while I have a cigarette or something. I'm not one of those people who have tens of thousands of posts. Unfortunately even though this is a polish forum there's more fighting name calling put downs etc than meaningful conversation and debate about polish things. Im starting to get sick of it and ill probably take a break from pf for a while or quit altogether bc the environment is so toxic and rather depressing.

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

@kaprys

Exactly. People rely on the internet far too much - now even they rely on it to find love. What ever happened to going out, going up to a girl, asking her for a dance or to join you for a drink etc.? Imo the internet is great for finding no strings attached relationships or finding a partner with the same lifestyle, hobbies, kinks, fetishes etc but for love eh idk... Some people do meet online though and get married and all that.

There's also groups of singles that meet up and do various things like hiking skiing clubbing wine tasting etc.

Ahh I miss college so much lol. I think I was with more women in my freshman year than all the other years of my life combined.

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

@Wulkan

Yea but only roz posts regularly. Atch left. I don't know of any other regular female posters. Who can blame them honestly?
I'm very close to leaving too bc it's just too much and its damn depressing

Classifieds / American guy in London looking for a Polish girl [29]

@Letshavefun101

Not gonna happen here buddy. Sadly you're a lamb that stumbled into a wolf's lair. I honestly recommend you leave if you know what's good for you. People will tear you apart here as they've already started to. Unless a hostile atmosphere is your fetish.. Besides we only have 1 female poster here anyway.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@dolnoslask

Wouldn't surprise me. The problem is after ww2 and even after the fall of communism some people would just steal whatever they could. And I'm not talking about stealing a load of bread so you don't starve... I'm talking about stealing land machinery entire estates to enrich yourself. People would come out of concentration camps or a gulag or from the front to find a new family in your home. I swear some people are no better than maggots feeding off a dead host.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@dolnoslask

Exactly. But even if Germany did give reparations to poland something tells me that the right people wouldn't be compensated or theyd put up so much red tape and bureaucracy that people would simply give up. We have land around lwow that was taken from us a long time ago but itd be pretty much impossible to get that back now.

@delphiandomine
Yeah it's a game of political football. I do like some of the ideas pis stands for and things they do (same with p.o. - they both have their pros and cons like with just about anything) but I am not in favor of certain things pis has done like the abortion laws they tried to pass and now this whole reparations thing. As far as the courts I don't really have an opinion as I simply don't know enough about the issue. However judging by the huge protests in wroclaw(I've never in my life seen the rynek that full) it seems to not be too popular of a move. I do think the courts need some adjustments as I've witnessed the corruption firsthand but i can't really say how to or how not to go about it.

In this case though as far as reparations it's clearly a distraction and basically an attempt to get some political leverage. They reallt shouldn't be using the solemn memory of ww2 atrocities against poles as a political tool. If Kaczynski or pis said this while campaigning or once they got into power itd be a little different. However doing this at this point in time and very rapidly makes one think he doesn't care about the people hurt by the Nazis and wermacht a whole lot.

Idk if he's doing this because of the constitution/court situation or eu demands for taking in migrants or another reason. Only Kaczynski and his inner pis circle know the true purpose and we can only speculate. Maybe it'll end in some sort of comrpomise where Kaczynski and Merkel maybe agree on something like where Germany won't pay reparations but then the fines for not taking in migrants or some other issue the eu has against poland will be dropped. Who knows what will occur of this. Only time will tell.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

Yes but no ruling party took it seriously till now. I don't recall any government figures being as serious about this as Kaczynski is now since the 90s.

I'm all for the right people receiving reparations but it seems like Kaczynski is just using this as a political tool now. I don't recall any mentions of this in pis campaigns for example.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Ironside

I'm referring to Kaczynski suddenly asking Germany for ww2 reparations although its clearly a political front. I support pis over po for the most part but I find this repulsive the way ww2 is being used as a political tool for poland to get the eu especially Germany off their back.

express.co.uk/news/world/836635/Poland-Germany-Second-World-War-reparations-counteroffensive

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4758992/No-wonder-Poland-s-demanding-billions-Germany.html

I would disagree - German youth are constantly indoctrinated with how bad Germany treated others in ww2. The more liberal politicians constantly go on tv and say that Germany must accept migrants because of what they did in ww2. Although yes, as time goes on less and less German youth will care about what happened before even their parents time.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

Not just Germans think of Poland as backwater, and it is in many places I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's western Europe as a whole. Its not just for economic or technological reasons but also societal as Poland is very conservative when compared to more progressive places like say france, holland, sweden, etc.

Also the media helps push the narrative that poles are dumb and backward. Even now there's shows like two broke girls with the typical 'dumb polak' character. Although media in general stereotypes many other nationalities and races. Its just that poles don't really care so we don't have organizations like the adl splc or adf to really defend against such things. Thats why amongst many poles there's always been a sort of an 'us and eastern Europeans vs everyone else' mentality. Pilsudzki went as far as to promote an idea of intermarum where Poland czechy Lithuania Ukraine and a bunch of other Slavic and east euro states would be united in one big union to counter more powerful nations. Wed be a sort of Yugoslavia stretching from sea to sea hence the intermarum name.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

Yes you're right. However initially Hitler wanted to deport the Jews to Madagascar and even Palestine but it proved too expensive. Eventually he reasoned itd be better just to kill them all I.e. final solution .

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

If the eu and Poland got along better Germany would probably be willing to toss Poland a few billion. Many Germans have a sort of generational guilt where they feel they must constantly do things for other nations to atone for their ww2 sins. They would probably do it and want to forge better relations for the future. This would work in favor for poland and Germany and hopefully the survivors and their families assuming the money actually reaches them and isn't misappropriated in the process. In this political environment its highly unlikely and its clear that kaczynskis motives to get reparations aren't pure. As a pole I find it repulsive personally the way he's going about it. Pis has some good ideas but this definitely isn't one of the..

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

One thing I will say though is actually the Nazis didn't do anything to my family. In fact they gave my grandparents food everyday almost and saved an uncle from a UPA squad that was literally just about to shoot him. A nazi officer stationed in the town came just in time - my uncle was already blindfolded and standing against a tree. The town and my uncle were later 'liberated' by the red army, all his property confiscated, and our family put in jail because they were kulaks meaning 'rich peasants' - having a barn and home that you built with your own hands along with some livestock was enough for a family to be arrested and everything confisdated. Anyway after some time in jail he was let out and forced to serve in the red army. Our family was transferred from Poland to Belarus to somewhere in Kazakhstan briefly to smolensk for a few years and then finally they were able to come back to the same town in poland. If anything id like to see russia give reparations for stuff like this. Although I doubt that will ever happen

They don't complain though. They don't even have any ill feelings towards the ukranians that arrived. Sure it would be nice for them to get some money as they are poorer than the rest of the family. However they're just happy they made it out alive and are together again as a family.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

Well Kaczynski is willing to use poles suffering during ww2 and asking for reparations just now all of a sudden as a form of leverage against Merkel and e.u. quite sad honestly..

Yes true survivors and families of survivoes should get some reparations whether they were targeted for being jewish, polish, gypsy, gay etc by the nazis and wermacht. However at this point its clear that Kaczynski is only doing it for political reasons and not because he cares about survivors and their families finally getting some sort of justice.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

@Lyzko

It depends in which circles. The Jewish community is very diverse in ideology ranging from the most conservative and fundamentalist to the most liberal. He is rather celebrated here as a local professor and is accepted by the local Jewish community but more so the liberal reform Jews rather than the conservative and most orthodox esp with Zionist leanings which aren't too fond of him. I'm not saying that books, movies, etc shouldn't be produced about the holocaust far from it. However it shouldn't be at the expense of the millions of others who suffered imo. The reason why is because it then makes society forget about all the other tragedies. Were at the point where when someone says 'ww2' a persons brain automatically thinks nazis, death camps, holocaust but 11 million Russian dead and nearly 3 million non Jewish poles doesn't come into thought till way later if at all...

Not much can really be done about it at this point aside from non Jews doing the same - writing books making movies and Jews saying themselves hey we weren't the only ones who suffered and died. However since the holocaust has become such a powerful geopolitical tool they don't want to. Quite frankly I can't blame them, I don't know if I would do different if I were in Jewish shoes. Its hard to relinquish or even share the power that has come of the memory of the holocaust and ww2 at large.

Hitler specifically stated prior to the glewicz false flag that all poles ought to be killed mercilessly and the nation wiped out. He didn't specify between polish jew or polish gentile. Of course the final solution was geared towards Jews but nonetheless nazi crimes were pretty much equal opportunity.

One of the main reasons I bring this up is because now Kaczynski is asking for reparations from Germany for the death and destruction that poles suffered in ww2. While poles do deserve reparations for nazi and wermacht crimes, Kaczynski is only bringing this up now for political reasons to have leverage against Merkel Germany and the eu - not for national remembrance or to help the survivors or families of survivors.

History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [625]

The holocaust was a monstrosity I don't think any sane person can argue otherwise. Nothing good should have come up of it but nonetheless some people have used it to line their pockets. Actually some early Zionists wanted an incident like the holocaust to occur so that in the end the Jews could get their own land - of course those were the most Machiavellian of all the early Zionists and doesn't reflect the views of more 'mainstream' Zionists at that time. What some people, such as for example myself and professor norman finkelstein (who I've met and consider one of the foremost experts on israel, the Palestine-israel conflict, antisemitisim vs antizionism, and of course the holocaust) are bothered by the fact that people especially the Hollywood types and various survivors turned authors have used the solemn memory of the holocaust to turn into the money printing machine known as 'the holocaust industry' which is the title of one of finkelsteins books.

The jews definitely deserved reparations. However some took it a bit too far. Some have even filed false claims to swiss banks. Then you have people like elie wiesel and zisblatt who were definitely holocaust survivors but then why exaggerate what really happened? Many things that were 'common knowledge' have been proven to be embellishments or outright false i.e. lampshades and gloves made of Jews skin. The holocaust was bad enough and there's no need to make up things or exaggerate because it's just more fuel for anti Semites and deniers. Even students who read night in high school and are asked to write a research paper only to find out that certain things don't quite match up may then downplay the tragedy of the holocaust and not believe what happened just because they read a book where facts were stretched.

Another thing that bothers non Jews is that despite more far slavs, gypsies, gays etc we didn't receive nearly the same exposure or reparations. In fact, holocaust is uniquely a word to describe the genocide of the Jews but yet no such word exists to describe the genocide of poles, genocide of russians and so on. Was our suffering less than that of Jews? We were in the same camps and suffered the same atrocities. In fact, more slavs died in nazi hands than Jews - although part of that is because the Jewish population was smaller than the Slavic population.

It just seems a bit unfair to a catholic pole. Please don't be offended by this - I'm not trying to downplay the suffering of the Jews or anything. Im simply saying that either everyone who suffered at the hands of Nazis should receive an equal amount of exposure and reparations or no one should receive anything. However the way it is now is that the suffering of the Jews is more important than that of slavs despite the fact that more of us died. Fortunately some Jews like norman finkelstein agree with this position and feel that the Jewish suffering has been exploited by its own people while the suffering of everyone has been totally downplayed.