News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Barney,why is it that if someone kills a pregnant woman that they are charged with a double homicide?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

4eigner,I agree.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,You know that when I was referring to proof ,it had to do with the way you were misrepresenting what I have been saying and you know it,All's anyone has to do is read what I have said consistently in this thread and there's the proof,nice try though,as for my reasoning that you were doing just that being faulty;well you know better.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,Cognitive dissonance lol,you are the one who has pancaked through this thread.People are smart enough to decide what proof is.I've made myself clear in my debating.And like you said,so what if I debate,my point exactly.Too much assuming lol:).I'll leave it at that.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,You keep playing the game all you like,but the proof is in what I've already said in this thread.You've passionately argued how pro choice is the only way..You have made yourself clear on this.I can only assume that you are angry because you have been insulting ever since I put the question to you.I and anyone else on this thread have the right to voice our beliefs.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,It is not illegitimate reasoning and the fact that each new post you write is filled with insulting and vitriol proves it lol.You didn't acknowledge you said I tend to agree,Now it's I "acknowledged."I have the right to chime in,just for the same reason you do.

It's not about my ego,it's about you presenting what I have said in a dishonest fashion.I am passionate in my belief and when I debate it is with that passion.You keep playing this game and to anyone who reads what you're saying. they will see this.I understand that you are angry,but I don't hold it against you.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,You ask me why I said that that it is weak and this is is explained by this'"because you don't go out and catch every thief there is,then you have no justification for saying that stealing is wrong,let alone suggest that thieves should go to jail".So how can you say that this negates one's right to state their passionate belief.Where did I ever say that I was fighting for the cause?And you are accusing me of dishonesty.........I have outlined the criteria on this thread.So I ask anyone who would read this to read what I have already said on this thread and then tell me if he hasn't tried to put spin on what I've said.You will also see how he has flip flopped through this thread and at one point saying that he tended to agree with me on the one point I debated about in regards to fathers.So Foreigner4 you can say that you aren't passionate in your belief,but according to you,you have no right;be it for fighting the cause or not,to comment,then you as well shouldn't be chiming in at all,but I wouldn't be trying to suggest this;or to try to claim that it is an effective argument in stopping you from doing so..

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,let's pick up here and you can respond to my last post on this thread or is there some reason you don't want to?

Foreigner4,as I said before,I have covered every angle of this debate in here,but if you want me to answer those questions again,then respond to my last post here.Do you go out on pro choice rallies?Are you going out and teaching safe sex?If you're not then this makes you just as morally inconsistent as anyone else and would mean that you are not qualified to have an opinion on it one way or the other,this is what you are saying.It has to apply both ways.You could use that same argument to negate everything and every cause.This obviously isn't going to happen.We are still entitled to have our beliefs.We can also pick and choose our battles and how we fight them.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Polonius why did you try to veer away from the subject and deflect?Who cares what he she or the other is doing,we're talking about a ridiculous thing the government is doing at the behest of a religion.How does this in the least way have anything to do with the gun culture in America?Instead of going here there and everywhere;why not tell me how this law is right and how it is not a direct contravention of Democratic principals.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

You slice it 6 ways to Sunday if you want,and try to justify it,but wrong is flat out wrong Polonius.You show me where there is a blasphemy law in the U.S.Take a gander as to why there isn't......

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

I haven't latched on to one thing,I'm discussing the topic Polonius.I'm not saying that there are not contributing factors to society's ills,but this is not what we are discussing here.It's about the Church being allowed to interfere with.peoples lives and trying to dictate that people hold something in esteem,in which they don't believe,This amounts to an infringement of a fundamental right;and that is to believe how you wish.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Orpheus I believe in God;I'm not at all religious,but if someone is beholden to their book,they should read it thoroughly.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Polonius,I don't fail to see these things.It should not be the place of any religious institution to impose it's will on anyone imo.How you equate destroying a book or offending a god that they don't believe in;as the same thing as a moral breakdown is beyond me.Do you know what idolatry is Polonius?I believe in and respect God,I wish people would show believers some respect,but it's not my place to tell people how they should believe or suggest that they be punished because they offended my religious sensibilities.The book is quite clear on idolatry.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Polonius,does Poland have freedom of belief?Is Poland a theocracy?

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Polonius,there is a difference between government law and a law that is imposed because of a religious belief that not everyone shares.In fact you could say that that is like Sharia law if to a lesser degree.

Life / Blasphemy not OK in Poland! [54]

Polonius,don't you think that's a little over zealous?To get into trouble for tearing up or destroying paper sounds ridiculous to me.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foriegner4,LOl,now you can try to belittle me all you like that's fine.If anyone were to read our exchange they would come to the same conclusion as I have.The burden of proof rests on both sides or there would be no debate on this issue.I still say that a woman should not be able to have one because of carelessness and especially if a man is willing to take care of the child,because he should have a say as well.This is what I've said this whole time,but you don't have to get mad about it and say rude things.If you didn't want to directly answer those questions then you didn't have to.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,but yet you quote and reply.I show you exactly what I'm talking about and you either don't answer it or deny it.I have only used semantics rebutting your semantics.which I have outlined more than once.I have said other than for mitigating circumstances that I am against abortion.You take away mitigating circumstances and what do you have?Some one wanting the right not to have to care for a life brought into this world,because they were careless.This is what I'm against.

You have no scientific proof that the baby is not a separate body at what ever point it is deemed life.In fact I've never heard anyone suggest this but you and as far as I'm concerned that is semantics.Of course it's my opinion no more than it is your opinion.If your going to use the angle that because your not willing to rear all those children then you shouldn't say anything;if these children weren't being brought about due to carelessness then there would be no need to say anything would there?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,My thoughts aren't incoherent because you seem to be able to respond to every one of them.You said it's a unique relationship and we must respect that and it's not for us to say anything,which amounts to it's ok for her to do what she wants because of this unique relationship.Why you wouldn't understand what I was trying to tell you.....

Where does science say that a new life is not a separate entity?What do you mean that this is not a scientific fact?If you said I'm against abortion,but it's her right and I have to respect that that's one thing.But if you go on to argue every point to support her getting one,then you can't blame people for thinking that you're pro abortion.

If you believe that the child is alive and defenseless,this is not enforcing morality on someone,this is protecting a defenseless child point blank.You're saying that this is immoral.It's simple if you don't think that we have the right;then you're trying to force you're morals on us...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Natasia,extremely well said.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Legend,I agree,because if she was going to always choose life other than in those mitigating circumstances ;then there would be no need for a "right to choose".Grzegorz,well said.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Delphiandomine,you have to admit that considering why they were going and where they went ;if any story had the ingredients of a conspiracy theory this one sure does;on the face at least.Not to say that I think one way or the other on the issue as I really don't know enough about it.What a coincidence though.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Natasia ,I agree with you 100%,and give it a name like planned parenthood.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Grzegorz_,good point.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

WeilkiPolak,or the father as well?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

foreigner4,Neither is the baby's body in regards to the mother,what can't you understand about that.Why do you say no to the Unique relationship and how it gives her the right to decide,is that not what you said?If you didn't;then you need to articulate better.What gives anyone the right to say anything about any thing.You imply all these things and then you say no.People have every right to say something about a defenseless life.It's not your place to tell people that they can't according to your logic,but you very well have the right to and I wouldn't try to stop you either.So what's your answer;are you or are you not pro abortion?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Foreigner4,if the baby is alive,then it is for us to say what's what.Just as society decides a lot of things.As for some of the things you've said about death in.this world.It wouldn't be for us to decide that that was wrong either.

Foreigner4,Here's what I'm getting and correct me if I'm wrong.On the one hand you're saying that you agree that the unborn is alive and therefore considered a life,but because of the unique relationship this life(a seperate entity btw) has with it's host that the host being a woman in this case;has the right to eliminate this unborn child.Though a male who helped create this life would want the unborn child to live,this should have absolutely no bearing on what this woman may decide as to the destiny of said unborn child.So if the woman is allowed to abort in other mitigating circumstances and also under the circumstance I just described,This would give the impression that you are pro abortion.You are saying not to impose your morality on the woman(which by the way is an accepted view when it comes to extinguishing ones life)because you don't oppose war.And therefore you're saying that people are wrong to suggest that a woman should not be able to take a life.How else could you view this as not being a pro abortion stance?I'm referring to your debating techniques;Are you for abortion or not?Can you see how I could get this impression?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

dtaylor5362, I'm referring to after the child is born,as I said please read my prior posts and then I'll debate if you still want to.I don't want to have to repeat it again,as I have outlined it all through this thread.If you don't mind,I'd appreciate it...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

dtaylor5632,and at what point is that?I also think that if the male has to help support that child;then why shouldn't he have a say?Anway if you read my posts I go into much greater detail.Please read them if you would?Then you will have a much better understanding of where I'm coming from.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

dtaylor5632,if you read through this thread you will see that it's more than just that,that is one aspect.What is the argument for "right to choose" either it's a life or it isn't.If you have someone who is willing to raise the child and she wants to abort......You have taken away any other reason as to why she would want to.Except other than mitigating circumstances I don't think it's an acceptable option,especially if it's because people were careless and then decided they wanted an abortion,though someone is willing to raise the baby,you take away that responsibility;so then what reason would there be?Just say it's the right to choose to eliminate a body that is not your body,though the baby may reside in her.