News / European News and Poland Thread 3 [1088]

@Bratwurst Boy


The AfD is also a big part of the problem. They are against gay marriage, self-ID for trans and so on. They are for LGBT and jews when they can use them as a pretext to bash muslims while working to roll back progress and make life more difficult for them.

We may have come far compared to where we were 30 years ago, but there is still quite a way to go.

@Crnogorac3


Indeed.

@amiga500


It is so easy to rile up bigots. Maybe it is the knowledge that they are fighting a loosing battle.

News / European News and Poland Thread 3 [1088]

@Bratwurst Boy


Sure. Even Poland is slowly moving in the right direction, with the new government considering to legalize same-sex civil unions. Which is of course still not full acceptance, but still a move in the right direction.


The government granting out equal rights to people is not them giving out gifts, but doing their jobs.

It is not the fault of LGBT that the German government is unable to agree on anything else... .

@amiga500


Your posts certainly make it easier to understand how they thought and did what they did. So much vitriole and hatred for positions that demand simple human decency... .

News / European News and Poland Thread 3 [1088]


Progress is rarely a straight road. Sometimes there are set-backs. Still, Trump has not won yet. Maybe he'll give the Democrats another victory.

@Crnogorac3


Just one of the many, many issues Russia is miles behind civilized countries.

Current Trends of HIV Infection in the Russian Federation

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10674383/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20European%20Center,end%20of%202021%20%5B6%5D.

News / Will Poland as a NATO member be drawn into the Israel/Iran war ? [127]

@Bratwurst Boy


A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!

News / Will Poland as a NATO member be drawn into the Israel/Iran war ? [127]


The intention may not be the problem. Just no capabilities. We need everything we have to build a credible deterrence against Russia (which may not even enough).

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

Gun nuts like to fantasize about how they'd use their guns to heroically defend their families against intruders. Leaving aside how statistically unlikely such invasions are and how difficult it would be for trained professionals to act appropiately, let alone amateurs (which most of them). The ugly reality is that not only are they more likely to use those weapons to kill themselves or harm family members, but those family members may also (intentionally or accidentally) misuse those guns. Particulary children:

California toddler kills 1-year-old sister with handgun found in home, police say

Gun-related deaths have become a mayor cause of death for children and young adults

cbsnews.com/news/san-diego-toddler-shoots-kills-1-year-old-sister-with-unsecured-handgun/

everytownresearch.org/report/notanaccident/

I am sure that is one thing from the USA no one in Poland is interested in adopting.... .

So if you love your family and want to keep them safe, you should throw your gun away immediately. If you need them for work/hunting, keep them in a secure, locked box.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@Novichok


Nope, we are just better at looking at statistics. You are more likely to use those gun against yourself, your family, or your family uses it to harm itself. Facts matter. Your gun is making your family more unsafe.


You mean events like this?

Child firing Uzi at Ariz. shooting range accidentally kills instructor, police say

cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html

There are states in which people are not allowed to drink alcohol or drive a car until they are 21, but some people seem to believe it is perfectly fine to let children handle guns.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@Novichok


That is not how statistics work. With cars you look at the benefits of a car (greater mobility et al.) and compare them with other methods of transportation and their associated risks.

With guns it is easier since you can weigh their supposed benefit (protection, lifes saved) versus the lifes they claimed but were not supposed to.

And statistically speaking you are more likely to harm yourself and/or your loved ones than to shoot an intruder with. Guns make the life of their owners and all others more unsafe.

@johnny reb


Nonsense. If a person does not know how to drive, he'll be severely limited in his mobility and possibly job opportunities. Having sex is something natural everybody will want to experience, and we know from history that banning alcohol does more harm than good. But there is zero reason why a minor should learn how to handle a gun. He does not need it for his daily life, it poses further risks for him and others and given the right laws, it will be very difficult to ever get his hands on them unsupervised. Most people in Poland never used a gun in their life, nor did they have the need for it.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@johnny reb


18 and of course only after passing a psychological evaluation.

@Novichok


Just repeat after me: Your gun endangers you and your loved ones. Your family is real, that dangerous intruder just part of your imagination. If you love your family, get rid off your gun. Your activities on this forum does not convince anybody that you are capable of handling your gun in an emergency.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@johnny reb


And do you think that is reasonable? I get it that hunting may have been a necessary skill to learn as early as possible in rural areas 200 years ago, but today? The USA is a civilized country with what I can only assume broad access to supermarkets. Children should not have access to guns period. If they want to get extra fresh food, they can always go fishing.

@Novichok


Leaving aside the risk of accidental discharges. Living without cars or bathtubs is difficult, they pose little risk while offering great benefits. Guns do not offer any tangible benefits while posing great risks to yourself and your family. Living without them has no impact on your daily life, but your family will thank you for it. "At least now grandpa is less likely to shoot me" would be a very reassuring thought for them.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@jon357


Arguments from gun nuts in a nutshell.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]

@Novichok


Hence we have a well-armed police force.


Police officers may realistically find themselves in situations in which guns can be useful. Whereas civilians with guns are statistically more of a danger to themselves or others. Police officers have undergone intensive, often-years long training and various psychological testing in order to prepare them an make sure they are fit to handle a gun responsibly.

Your mind may still be living in the Wild West, but times have changed. If you love your family, get rid of your gun.


As always, you might want to read up on your history. Here is a hint: People who spoke and thought like you gave us WWII when they got a chance to act on their depraved impulses.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2874]


No, they don't. The statistics are very clear on this.


Without the Nazis, there would not have been WW2 period.


It is the only right and safe thing to do. They are trained professionals. When your grandchild has an appendicitis, you dont get your knife and operate on her yourself. You drive her to a hospital.


Only to yourself, your family, and anyone in your vicinity. Do the right thing, get rid of your guns. Those intruders are just in your head, your family is real.


Seems like a no-brainer to me. Not trying to be unpolite here, but this whole gun thing seems irrational to me. It makes everyone more unsafe and it causes a lot of other issues down the line (my suspicion is that police brutality is such an issue in the US partly because US police officers have to be a lot more forceful and careful in their interaction with civilians, since anyone could carry a gun).

Even if owning a gun is a right, there should be checks in place to make sure that the person is mentally stable and knows what he is doing. Don't know how the situation is in Poland, but I am currently looking into acquiring a hunting license in Germany. It is quite a long way, but I think the conditions (completing mandatory training over several weeks, background checks and irregular checks on how I store my gun) are reasonable.

Off-Topic / Serbia etc. thread 3 [152]

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News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

@jon357


It is called "Good Samaritan law".

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law#:~:text=The%20Good%20Samaritan%20law%20gives,the%20attempt%20is%20not%20successful.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

@jon357


Indeed. There was a noticeable case in my home town a few years ago, when several (by all accounts wealthy) people ignored an unconscious man lying on the floor in a bank. Some of them literally stepped over him in order to access their accounts... . I think they got fined or even received a suspended prison sentence.

I get the hesitation to apply first aid to a stranger, especially of you are untrained. But everyone can call emergency services nowadays when everyone has a mobile phone.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

@Novichok


Wikipedia has a long list.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

@Novichok


Most of those alliances have something like article 5, if not stronger. Article 5 leaves the kind of assistance given to the attacked country up to the other countries. As some cynics have pointed out, this can also take the shape of a sympathy telegram.

Article 42.7 of the EU demands that the other countries help the victim by "all the means in their power".

The French-Greek defence agreement also includes a mutual defence close in case of an agression by a third party.

Not sure why you insist on making a fool out of yourself with your questions, when a simple Google search could have revealed the stupidity of it to you.... .

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

Ukraine is shooting down Russian planes almost daily at this point, and seems to have stopped Russia's offensive at Kharkiv. Despite receiving only somewhat limited Western military equipment. Imagine what they could do if they had e.g. 12 Patriot systems instead of 3 and and a sizeable number of modern fighting jets.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Barney


Something the Palestinians will have to come to terms with one day as well. Anything else just breeds resentment and hatred and prevents them from building something new on the land they do have.

Imagine how things would look today if the expelled Germans still had the same attitude towards Poland, with their children inheriting it. If I'd pass down the key from my grand-parents home in Danzig to my children, telling them that we have been unjustly expelled and that they would return one day to reclaim it. This is the kind of thing happening in many Palestinian families. It is just not the basis for a peaceful and prosperous life.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Barney


They were able to build a tunnel networks that rivals the subway system of mayor European cities. What they could achieve if they focused their effort on building their state, instead of attacking Israel.


Untrue. The expelled Germans returned to occupational zones, often to areas whose German future was very much in doubt. The German states only formed 4 years later in 1949. In the end we gained a reunited German state after recognizing that we would not get our former territories back. That is something the Palestinians will have to recognize as well one day. Sometimes building your own future means coming to terms with the reality that injustices to your ancestors are a thing of the past and that it is better to live in the present.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Barney


Come on, the tunnel system is something even Hamas is boasting about...


Many of those never held German citizenship before and there was most definitely no German state to return to in say 1946. The people going to Flensburg, Saarbrücken or Aachen could not be certain that they would live in Germany in the future.


It is, because the similarities are striking. Both had lost territories due to a war they started because they could not accept the loss of territory. They had to live on less land than before, which was also poor/destroyed. The expelled people dreamt of their return.

But the Germans were fortunate enough to have leaders that cared for their people, particulary in West Germany. And who were brave enough to tell them that their dreams of return would never come to pass. The Palestinians needed a Willy Brandt, but all they got was Arafat and from then it went only downhill.

Germans got their reunified state after Kohl confirmed that Breslau, Stettin and Königsberg would never again be part of Germany. And we lived very well afterwards, even though Putin's imperialism is now throwing long shadows (while also showing how damaging clinging to the past really is).

The Palestinians will have their own state once they come to terms with the fact Jerusalem and Tel Aviv belong to Israel.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Barney


Not necessarily. Quite a few German-speaking people from e.g. Rumania or the Soviet Union never held a German passport before they arrived.


Aside from the similarities I've mentioned. And I pray that the Palestinians can one day make peace with what they will never have and build a future for themselves. Sometimes a total defeat can be the start for something better. A total defeat of Hamas may be the best that could happen to the Palestinian people long-term.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Ironside


Allied controle over German lifes was really tight for the first couple of years.


Well, the Germans also did not keep on attacking their neighbours... . Pretty sure we could have kissed Saarbrücken goodbye for good if we had slaughtered a few thousand French civilians again in the early 1950s...

The Palestinians are experiencing what would have happened to Germans if they had not changed their ways.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Bratwurst Boy


According to their logic, I might be a refugee... Despite the fact that my father was born in my home town. Utterly bizarre if you ask me... . What good may come from this kind of thinking?

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

Imagine you'd start shooting rockets over the Oder ;)

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Barney


As pointed out to you, that is not true. If the Germans had not regained the trust of their neighbours, they would still be without a state.


I think we can put the idea that only the Hamas leadership is behind those crimes firmly to rest. We have seen the pictures and videos of cheering Palestinian civilians while the Israelian hostages are paraded through the streets, not to mention the credible reports that non-Hamas culprits joined the massacre. Who can forget the people spitting on Shani Louk's mutilated corpse? So much hatred on their faces... .

I pity the children or grand-children who may crome across those media in the future and find out what their parents did.


My position is driven by empathy. Most Germans who learn about the Palestinian plight and their drive for revenge will probbaly feel reminded of what they read in history books from 1919-1945. Yet this precisely why we understand that this is not a mental state that should continue. Sometimes harsh truths are needed.

Off-Topic / 75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2 [693]

@Ironside


You might wanna look up what kind of plans were discussed during and after the war about Germany's future (or lack of it). Our neighbours had either some crazy ideas or designs on German territories (or both).


The fate of the GDR was set in stone (or walled in stone) but nothing about the FRG becoming a key part of Western Europe and its' economic recovery was inevitably. In fact the sly fox Adenauer had to overcome a lot of obstacles and do a lot of convincing for it to happen. He convinced the former victims of German agression that it would no longer pose a threat to them, and that cooperation would be hugely beneficial for both sides.

Now imagine if the Palestinians did the same with Israel. Convince them that they are no threat, that Israel could instead focus on other enemies.

[quote]You lot only see Germans/quote]

Well, the Palestinians have similiarities to Germans, while the situation of the Jews is similiar to Poles back then. Victims of agression, driven from their homes, being forced to build up something new elsewhere, while being despised by those whose homes they now occuppy.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

It is obviously Putin"s and Zelensky's call.

Though Putin has the most power over ending it. If Zelensky orders a surrender, many Ukrainians would most likely carry on the fighting as partisans.

If Putin orders a withdrawel, the Russian soldiers would fight who'd make it first to cross the border home.

The US president can greatly shape the outcome of the war, but he can not end it.

News / Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11 [1326]

The EU could still offer to buy those parts and weapons from the USA and send them to Ukraine.


We shall see. The EU is increasing its' output with every month, while Russia's is straining to keep up the current rate. If given time, the EU should be able to keep the Ukrainians in the fight. Not enough for any mayor counter-offensive, but sufficient to keep up the defensive effort.