Feedback / Who deserves to inherit Polish Forums? [344]

New updates to the forum, from the admin:

"We've just added a new usability feature: the Center/Uncenter Layout checkbox.

On the discussion pages, you may click on the checkbox to center the layout for easy reading.

Enjoy!

PolishForums

(you may want to hit the CTRL-F5 buttons at the same time to refresh your web browser's cache)"

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I only discover these updates when I visit the funding page to check how we're doing... I suspect I'm not the only one who was oblivious to these changes.

Perhaps the Admin can make some kind of a sticky thread where the updates are posted, but discussion is locked? Actually... would be nice to be able to make suggestions too.

I have some off the top of my head:

1) In the search function, it could be nice to add the ability to search by username and also by date, in addition to title and message.

2) When editing text on a mobile phone, it's pretty difficult to Bold or Italicize selected text. The reason is that, at least on iOS, the "Select, Copy, Paste, etc" pop-up covers the "Bold" button, so you have to zoom in and out until you're able to click the damn thing. I think this can be fixed by slightly adjusting the size of the box, or moving it slightly downwards from the formatting tab.

3) Allow users to bookmark their favorite threads, so they don't have to scroll back several pages in time to find them.

4) Add some kind of "old school" ranking for users. Like "newbie", "rookie", "webmaster" etc. The forum will still have its nostalgic look, but maybe this will add a little flavor.

5) Create the ability for users to post simple polls. This could be very fun.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [1440]


Yep. I noticed the traces of Russian influence, when I realized I had heard some of his jokes before, but in Russian from old timers.

He was one smart cookie. That's what made his comedy so good.

He was also a religious person, which surprises a lot of people. One time, on some radio show, some chick made a pretty flat joke about how "Christians are dumb", and Norm eviscerated her.

He's a guy who had a gambling addiction, but also never drank or did any drugs. Also, pretty much asexual, out of respect for his kid. Full of contradictions...


Heh

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [1440]


Letterman was one of the very few people who knew Norm was very sick.

It was almost physically painful to rewatch this later, after Norm passed, and finally understanding the context.

Letterman, for all his faults, is one of the most decent people on late night tv - ever.

If you want to see Letterman himself get emotional, watch this episode when he brought on Warren Zevon who had terminal cancer.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


My heart is broken.

I am sorry if I got too emotional, but it is impossible to stand by and watch you attack the best poster on this forum.

-------

Back on topic - the Polish military is now the third largest in NATO. As Pawian would say, AMASSSING!

Quoting:

"Poland has NATO's third-largest military and the alliance's largest in Europe, newly released figures show.

The Polish armed forces contain 216,100 personnel, according to NATO's estimates for this year. That is behind only the United States (1.3 million) and Turkey (481,000).

Poland is followed by France (204,700), Germany (185,600), Italy (171,400) and the United Kingdom (138,100)."

Source: notesfrompoland.com/2024/07/16/poland-has-natos-third-largest-military-new-figures-show/

If I was Germany, I would be very, very scared right now.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Classic Vatican...

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Even a small child knows this, but stupid Milo does not.

Miloslaw, next time, instead of engaging in ad hominem attacks, try to back up your arguments with facts.

Can you prove that Europe is not Serbia?

Of course you cannot.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Correct.

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News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


This information makes me very happy indeed.

Perhaps it is not impossible to smash the unholy alliance of Squiptars (squid + retard) and Vatican devils.


Population of European Union - 450 million people.

Population of United States - 350 million people.

Total - 800 million.

From this we subtract 100 million sons and daughters of Holy Sarmatia.

Result - 700 million.

Problem, that is still only 350 million d*cks, because women also exist.

This means there are more enemies we are not aware of, yet.

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News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Brate... Serbia has 7 million population. Poland has 38 million.

Let us do some math.

7 million X 100 = 700 million enemies of Holy Serbia, Center of Sarmatia.

700 million / 45 million = 15.5

This means, even a combined Sarmatian army would still have fifteen and half enemy d*cks per warrior.

Is 15.5 d*cks a lot, or a little?

Please advise.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


I doubt that it will.

By the laws of war (Geneva Convention), such facilities are legitimate targets.

If the facility was used to train underage cadets, then that would be a problem. These, however, were adult officer cadets, in military uniform... and training to perform a deadly function in this war.

If this is the case, then why would Russia and Ukraine abide by such limitations in the third year of a brutal war where hundreds of thousands have died? It makes no sense.

All Ukraine had to do was train these people remotely (by Zoom, haha). If that's not quite possible, then they could have done it in a more decentralized fashion, or in a more hardened facility.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Ehhh.... no.

On both sides, we have some criminally negligent commanders.

In Russia, there are still idiotic commanding officers that arrange closely spaced columns of vehicles on highways - and then a HIMARS strike promptly arrives.

In Ukraine, there are still idiotic commanders that gather dozens of soldiers in the open, make them wait for hours, and all this to award some medals.

In the third year of the war, after many, many such mistakes in the past, there can be no excuse to not exercise basic common sense.

People get complacent, people do not use their brains.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


When the Ukrainian government routinely lies about what is hit, it becomes hard to know if something was tragic or not.

This is the problem with having an information strategy of reflexively accusing Russia of war crimes every time something is hit.

Yesterday, they really stepped into some deep sh*t with the strike on Poltava. A quick recap:

1) Russia hit the 179th Signals Training Center in Poltava. This facility was used to prepare experts in satellite and tropospheric communications, electronic warfare, signals intelligence, etc - in brief a very important target for Russia.

2) Despite this being the third year of the war, Ukraine practiced minimal caution, and there were hundreds of people in the building.

3) Current casualty estimates are 60+ persons dead, and approx 300 injured. Many of the wounded remain in critical condition.

4) Photos from the site began appearing within minutes of the strike. Evident in all the photos was the nature of the target, and the fact that the scattered bodies were all in military uniform.

5) Being an idiot, Zelensky took to social media HOURS LATER, and accused Russia of hitting an "educational facility" and a "hospital".

6) Lazy and brainless Western journalists (who unlike Ukrainian journalists are under no obligation to spread Kiev's falsehoods), reprinted the lie.

7) After a few hours more, everyone and their grandma began to piece together that the "educational institution" was a military training facility, and that the nearest hospital is approximately 1.5 kilometers away.

8) Angry Western journalists and analysts (who have been made to look like idiots, again), begin posting on Twitter messages along the lines of: "events like these can easily erode public trust in future Ukrainian claims of Russian strikes on civilian targets. That can be disastrous for Ukraine."

9) Russians like me become depressed, because we have been talking about this for years.

The Poltava strike is a perfect example, because of the chronology.

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History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


The frontline is in the East.

Russian missiles and drones are capable of reaching any area of Ukraine.

Logically then - all of Ukraine should move to the EU, preferably to Poland.

This would lead to a rapid conclusion of the war, since Russia will be able to move at a pace of a few hundred kilometers a day towards the Polish-Ukrainian border.

You are a genius, Paw.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


I have been answering it directly. Maybe my English is not so good, and I should try to be more clear.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Numbers matter.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Poland's "colonization" of Ukraine, over the centuries, does not provide an excuse for ethnic cleansing of Poles in the 20th century by Ukrainians.

Is that simple enough?

Pawian's appellation to context, in this instance is not meaningful.


How can I be more clear than saying that a relatively minor atrocity by a peripheral Polish unit, cannot be equivalent to massive and systemic atrocities by numerous Ukrainian formations?


It has nothing to do with philosophy - you try to make it about philosophy. I am talking about mathematics.

You are trying to be philosophic talking about the "infinite" value of life.

I am saying that life can be counted, and compared.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


It is a very morally absolutist approach.

Only in such an absolute way, can a dozen murdered Jews, be equivalent to 100,000 murdered Poles. I understand - every life is sacred, and any killing is equivalent to the erasure of the entire universe. But... in the real world - proportionality matters.

You are not the Buddha.


Because it matters what you do with that context. That is, how you act. Poles acted one way, and Ukrainians acted differently.

During the centuries when Poland "colonized" Ukraine, as you say, some other countries colonized half the world. Nobody says it is acceptable for Brazilians to ethnically cleanse Portuguese, or for Mexicans to genocide Spaniards. Here - context is also important.

18th century cannot be compared to 20th century.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [1440]


If you don't like reading RT, how about the Financial Times?

Quoting from today's article:

Experts say it is not just the east's economic problems that influence voting behaviour, but the memory of past injustices. Ulrich Sondermann-Becker, an analyst with regional broadcaster MDR, calls them the "Wendewunden", the wounds from the Wende.

Many in the east still associate that period with high unemployment, mass closures of industrial companies and the "devaluation of people's life experiences" in the GDR "which has continued into the present".

"People feel they were just overrun, with unbelievable arrogance," he said.

... and another quote:

A majority also oppose plans by Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government to station US medium-range missiles in Germany from 2026. That is combined with a strong strain of anti-Americanism inherited from the days of the communist German Democratic Republic.

"In GDR times it was the Soviets who dictated everything - now it's the Americans," said Heinz Wolff, a pensioner from the Thuringian town of Jena on the sidelines of a campaign appearance there last week by Scholz.

Source: ft.com/content/10fe5b01-51ef-4411-9df8-67f001c8aa78

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History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


The Russian and English Wikipedia do not mention this, and only the Polish one does. I wasn't engaging in any misinformation, instead I simply did not read this.


If I give you list of each incident where the OUN-UPA killed Ukrainian Jews, it will be longer than all the other threads in this forum.

Probably French fascists and Dutch fascists killed many times more Jews in instances like this,

If this is why Pawian wants to apologize first, then he is truly not a very smart baboon.


Sorry Admin, but I deleted the translated text. It was machine translated, and it was terrible - to the point of being unreadable. I wanted non-Polish speakers to be able to follow the conversation, but it wasn't useful at that point. For some reason Google Translate does a terrible job at Polish (Russian it does quite well).

It would take me a long time to personally translate the text.

Ok - I see you translated it again. But you see yourself, "submarines", etc.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


So two incidents.

Here is the first (translated):

"Dębica (forester's house), post office Pińczów. A two-day stopover without any events, apart from an action against thirteen Jews hiding in Górki Budziszowickie near Mały Książ - four teams of forty soldiers under the command of the head of the "Bursik" company went in submarines to the above-mentioned town, where, after rescuing thirteen Jews (a couple children, old ladies, elderly women, seven men of approximately the same age), beating up the farmer with whom the Jews were staying, took them a few kilometers from this town to a clearing and shot them, leaving them where they were."

...and here is the second:

"They brought a Jewish family from the town of Sulków to my village [Czaryś near Włoszczowa], consisting of three people, including a 4-year-old child (a boy). This family was placed in the granary of Stępniak Stanisław, where after 3 or 3 days the mentioned Jewish family was taken to the Czaryski forest near the village of Wola Czaryska, and shot there."
-----

Are you seriously comparing one hundred thousand murdered Polish women and children to a literal few dozen murdered by this brigade?

It's a mess, and not justifiable, but still... to compare the two?

It also says there that this was done a formation that LATER joined the brigade.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


I learned something new today, thanks Iron.

After reading what you wrote, I read a little further and found this:

"In the end, despite all efforts, most Home Army forces had inadequate weaponry. In 1944, when the Home Army was at its peak strength (200,000-600,000, according to various estimates), the Home Army had enough weaponry for only about 32,000 soldiers."

I was going off the "400k to 600k" numbers when I wrote about corps and armies, but you are right - they only ever fielded brigade sized formations.

This means that the only real Polish army, actually equipped up to its nominal strength, and with a proper assortment of light and heavy weaponry on its balance was the Soviet Berling Army. About this formation I know much more, and can definitely say it was 200,000 actual fighting men - operating at the same time as one organic force. They provided a large proportion of the forces that stormed Berlin.

Another reason for me to be puzzled at why Soviets are such "bad actors".

But back to the AK - the lack of weaponry, in a way, makes things even more impressive. If you consider what they managed to do in the Warsaw Uprising, and in places like Lublin and Wilno - then they must have been recycling the same weapons, while personnel would get repeatedly "digested".

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


I see.

Still strange.

Somehow, the AK, under a complete blockade, managed to outfit corps and army-sized formations. I don't know all the specifics of how they did it... but I suppose it was part smuggling, part local manufacture, and part capture of war trophies.

On the other hand, the ultra nationalists supposedly fully collaborated with Germany - and yet still couldn't find more than 800 lousy rifles?

Something is fishy here. It seems they were not limited just by weapons supply, but that their proportional popularity was much weaker.

Looks more like a manpower issue.


Ok, I understand.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]

@Ironside Ehhh, what?

This makes no sense.

The AK had 400,000 men under arms in 1944. Some estimates say 600,000. That's half a million men, in uniform, and with a rifle in their hands.

How could such a large army be supported by an organization with 250,000-300,000 people as you say? It had to be millions, and with a further many thousand abroad, as well as foreign states providing support.

The First Polish Army (Soviet created), had 200,000 soldiers.

It seems illogical to focus on such a microscopic formation with 800 men, and compare it in any way to the massive formations that actually mattered.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


I guess the brigade had major issues with staffing.

Even if we assume some kind of super anemic battalion size of 300 men, you still don't have enough to make even 3 battalions.

A typical German battalion had more men than this entire "brigade".

Soviet battalions were smaller than German ones, but a Soviet rifle brigade still typically had 3,500 to 5,000 men.

This is 3 rifle battalions, a machine gun battalion, an artillery battalion, a mortar battalion, an anti tank company, a recon company, a signal company, an engineer company, and a logistics company.

Calling 800 men A BRIGADE, is nonsense.

Again, compare it to the 14th SS Grenadier Division "Galician", which was a full blooded division. It doesn't matter that it was destroyed in just two days of fighting.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Nobody in the world, except Poles, has ever heard of the Holy Cross Mountain Brigade. I had to look them up on Wikipedia now, and I'm afraid I represent a very small minority of people that are interested in the minutiae of what was happening in the East during WW2.

Many people have heard of the 14th SS Grenadier Division "Galicien".

The Holy Cross brigade had a maximum of 1,200 people, and typically less than 800 - according to what I read.

The 14th SS Grenadier Division "Galicien" had over 11,000 men, and this was but one Ukrainian formation accused of engaging in massacres. One of many. There was also the Battalion Ukrainische Gruppe "Roland". There was then the Bataillon Ukrainische Gruppe "Nachtigall". Add to this dozens of UPA-OUN formations, and paramilitaries from other movements.

I read that the Holy Cross Mountain Brigade helped the Germans identify where Jews might be hiding. But I also read, and this is a direct quote from the Wiki:

"According to the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, there were no documented cases of Holy Cross Brigade soldiers directly murdering Polish Jews due to their ethnic origin."

I can't find anything about them ever massacring any Ukrainians.

Comparing a few thousand Poles that refuse to condemn the Holy Cross Brigade, to millions of average Ukrainians and hundreds of Ukrainian public officials that glorify the Banderites... seems somewhat strange.

If the best you can come up with is a battalion-strength formation which never really managed to perpetrate any kind of serious atrocity... then I struggle to view your claim of symmetry in crimes seriously.

--------

From what I understand, the Holy Cross Mountain Brigade was a collection of freaks, whose main crime was collaborating with the Germans in their search for Jews and not joining the AK.

Compared to them, the Ukrainians were much more willing to get their hands dirty - and they actually had the numbers to do it.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Germans brought to work their discipline and meticulous planning - for purposes of mass extermination. The results, when discovered, shocked the world. Such a thing had not been done since Genghis Khan and Atilla.

Russia, meanwhile, has killed several times less civilians than the Jews had managed within a shorter period of time and in a smaller space (in Gaza, that your government refuses to condemn).

Russia will not suffer decades of shame, like the Germans. In this sense, Putin has done well, even if it made the war infinitely more difficult to prosecute for our fighting men.

Our supporters around the world will be able to point to this anomalously low record of casualties among innocents as proof that our intentions were not to erase anyone.

Even the Wolynians and Galicians we won't ethnically cleanse, if we can get our hands on them. But I do think we should deport them to live with polar bears and walruses.


This isn't exactly quantum mechanics. Sowing discord between Poles and Ukrainians is quite easy, when one side is a genocide denier.

Once we topple the Zelensky regime, even more sh*t will come boiling up to the top, and then you'll be truly embarrassed at who you supported.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Excellent)

Let us tread gently, because we tread on things... very important to both countries.

Start by telling me what you think about my "Ukronazi-Shorpy" photo thread. Surprised? Disgusted?

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


Haha, the same reaction I had when I remembered his thread.


I won't lie, your mental pawianism is sometimes hard to digest even for me. But as long as we keep it civil, and do not threaten to f*ck each other's dead grandpas - I am ready.

I think it was because of your "unique" thread that we didn't talk to each for a year.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


You're gonna be a real Mahatma Gandhi if you apologize to Ukraine first, now.

Maybe more like the Christ.

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]


That's a very encouraging thought.

However, if people stop making babies, no wars will be necessary to make us go the way of the dodo.

That's what I'm afraid of for Russia, that it may go extinct before it truly recovers what was lost through the terrible 20th century.