History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


It's a symbol. Never mind. A Polish thing.


Yeah, I've seen this one before. 'Now how could the British send troops through the German controlled Baltic, please?'

And how about through Germany, delph? But this would require actually engaging the Germans, hmm... seems you're right... impossible thing. For the Brits.


:)) so giving up the indefensible part of Poland is 'being routed by Germans in a few days', but giving up the whole country is a good idea to you. And then we will show them our guerillas.


I say they should've formed an alliance with Germany. And Mexico. Solomon Islands wouldn't be a bad choice neither. Or we could've attacked the USA in July and surrender the next day, unconditionally.

Harry doesn't do you any good, delph.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


I don't think the Catholic population of Poland had much say in organizing the army. Somehow I can't imagine Polish generals including divine intervention if the military doctrine. Somehow I am under an impression that you actually have no clue. Not that I would expect it from a foreigner, but, please, the General Staff praying devoutly to Mary the Virgin to repel enemy tanks? Just how stupid Poles can be, what do you say?

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


And I thought it was NKWD, silly me. Anyway, in Poland it is not considered a military action. Whoever is doing it.


Killing works, no doubt.

delph, what are you trying to prove. What's so exceptionally smart in murdering people so that they can't spend the rest of the war in the POW camp? How ingenuous it is? Nobody ever tried this brilliant idea before?


Is it? You think murdering Poles by Russians was such a novelty? Never heard of before in Poland? You really seem to think that Katyn was the greatest Soviet crime ever.


Wrong perspective, delph, totally. What really hurt was the Western Treason. We never expected anything good from the East, and especially after the reds took over.


You really consider Poland a backward country. What is the actual result of Poland losing those 20 thousand people, that can be felt until today?


And BB blames the Versaille Treaty :) You say Poland should just roll over in 1920, to avoid the subsequent humiliation?


Polish archives are open. The British ones are not.

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]

Must be a cultural difference. Poles, including me, do not consider murdering defenceless prisoners a military action. And tactics, as understood in Poland, it's something that involves, you know, being smart on the run, not just shooting people with hands tied up behind their backs.



Well, if you say that 20 thousand educated people was all that Poland had before the war... and if we neglect some 1.5 million of middle-to-upper class relocated to Siberia and Kazachstan... and if you do not put the German efforts in the equation... then you might be somewhere close to the historical truth.

Katyn was not a substantial blow, even the 'few' remaining military were able to almost immediately organise an effective network of underground, and the others formed the army in the West. Katyn was a symbol of the Soviet barbarism, totally neglected for decades, that's why it's so important. The 'Ally' murders our people, and 'you' don't bloody give a damn.

Stalin regretted it later on, anyway. So much for tactical genius.


Well. It led to Poland, Belarus and Ukraine almost Jewish-free, so it worked like marvel, I'd say. In terms of social engineering. And it would be highly productive if Hitler had won the war. And, I am not sure that Israel would not emerge anyway, what with the Zionist movement, including that in Germany. Hitler just wanted Jews out of Germany, or Germany controlled lands.

Those Polish Jews supporting Germans, what do you mean? Some time before the war, I am guessing?

History / Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn? [220]


:) Good to know what you consider 'military tactic'. A fantastic one, to boot. That's your personal opinion, or you follow the newspaper's line? I'm out of touch with Wyborcza.


That would be difficult, yes.

How about the Holocaust? 'Fantastic, highly effective social engineering?' Difficult to argue, I'd say.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]


Not a Freudian, he was a freak, but I'd say that those quasi-Nazi are the result of some psychological need rather, than... well, no deeper though involved, obviously. I want to be strong, I want to be right, I want to be a warrior true (not like those 'anarchists' pampered by half of the press), I want to unite with my few chosen friends, proper men, seeing me a a proper man. Or woman, as we saw on the pics. I'd say one or another form of it happens all over the world, only in the Europe-influenced cultures it takes on the specific symbolism, equated with extreme rebellion against the mainstream. Everybody hates Nazis, but we are strong enough to raise the banner.

As long as the police doesn't really react -


- but why, actually? They are marching once a year, carrying posters, shouting things, raising hands. Freedom of expression. Once they start smashing windows, or littering the street, police should intervene promptly on the grounds of unprovoked property damage, and even act without prejudice, just to make sure the message gets through. I wouldn't really object if they were additionally charged with maliciously damaging the public property, i.e. police batons. Stupidity is a costly hobby. Or at least should be.

Attempts on denying them the right to walk streets curiously reminds me of the official reaction to the Orange Alternative. A street demonstration of garden dwarfs, the commie police reacting vigorously. And a toddler asking 'Mummy, why are they beating this little mister with a red cap? What did he do?' Well, he shouted 'Red caps good! Stop the persecution! Dwarfs will not surrender!'.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]


I was living there, 10 years ago and 15 years ago. More people are employed, in the UK. Wages are up, prices double so. And there are new opportunities coming, with Germany and France opening the labour market. This year a visited Poland after 3 years of absence, and I saw either stagnation or 'negative development'.

And I saw a dynamic progress in Poland too, lasted for about a year. Those 2 decades ago.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]

Poland has already tried this method, seems it didn't work.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]

I am not a fan of the current developments in... out there, so I don't even know if you're insulting me now or not. Just in case: fck you too!

Sincere apologies, if this was not deserved.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]


I don't know about your immediate environment, and such generalising opinions are difficult to discuss anyway, no actual research available. Now try and look at the official statements, starting with the Bishops' Apology for the expulsion of Germans, and compare this series with the neighbouring countries. Excluding Germany, that is, they are the champions.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]

right. Thanks for contributing to the Polish-European mutual understanding.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]


I have no issues with guarding. I have an issue with what is being guarded.


The mob is gathering!

We need one more. A Gang of Four sounds good.


Ts, I'd doubt they'd last in a pub long enough to say 'same again, please'.

Well, late in the night. Sober Poles are pathetically tolerant.

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]


Can easily become a two man mission. It's none of your business who mentions which newspapers. Opinion shaping is not what moderators are supposed to do.


I'd say it's more like a re-enactment hobby. Fringe party from a different era has found several dozens of active fans in some God-forsaken backyard, and it stirs excitement all over the country. Obvious retards as well, as the presented salute strongly suggests. One might expect that Nationalists know a thing or two about history concerning their nation.

History / Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising? [111]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flax

From that point on missions consisted of three P-40 Squadrons covered by one Spitfire squadron
a mission, four squadrons, less than one sortie, 'in reality'.

31stfightergroup.com/historical_31st/wwii309fs.html

For their second mission of the day the 309th flew with Nos. 81 and 131 squadrons

A mission, three squadrons, which is less than one aircraft, 'in reality'.

During the last mission of the day the squadron intercepted 7 FW-190s

A mission ('less that one aircraft') intercepting 7 Fockewulfs. 'In reality' :)

Harry in reality. Carry on, boy. :)

History / Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising? [111]


Care to to quote what they say? At your leisure :)


Quote them.

History / Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising? [111]

At the moment, Wiki does support my claims, as does the WRM website.

'In addition to ammunition, oil and crew, the Liberator could carry a further disposable load of 2,600 pounds (1,180 kg) which was made up of petrol and payload.'

So it's, let's be generous, a ton of payload per flight. Seems the Wiki agrees with the Warsaw museum, and both got it right. Roughly 200 tons, rougly 200 flights. Means sorties, Harry, just as I said, a sortie being A flight of a combat aircraft on a mission. Not a mission, Harry, but one aircraft flying. They did it 11 times, sending about 200 planes in total, in those 11 missions. Eleven missions, Harry, not hundreds of missions.

You were lying, again, and then trying to slander you opponent, again. Mods?

Oh, forget it.

History / Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising? [111]


Put the text on the net, to make them happy, and provide link here. I'd like to read it. One way is mediafire. If you have Polish version scanned or transcribed, put them there too, please.

A summary would be missing the point completely. Some direct quotes not so.


Eleven, Harry. Eleven missions, less than 200 sorties. Eleven is 11% of one hundred. Hundreds of missions is your typical harryish take on Polish history and on the way Poles whine about the Allies.

Food / Taste of food in Poland vs other countries [186]


Thanks for the tip, I'll try to remember. Rhymes with 'mind'?


Just like in Poland... most of the home made wine just vanishes before time...


Exactly the thing. Irish, I know, we were speaking about British food as well.


Actually I gave up after several tries, no point in wasting money...


I meant hard cheeses. They are supposed to be hard.


Sadło is fat surrounding the kidneys, solely. Well, this source says it can be fat from around other organs too, but kidneys mostly. There's a recipe for preparing sadło: roguski.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=27


I based my opinion on a TV program that presented it as a revelation that you can actually eat liver, kideys etc., popularly known as offal. As they said.


I am impressed, man :)

Well, you missed the point with sadło. And...


Try this: take trout, gut it, wash the inside and only slightly rinse the skin. Make sure you don't wash away the slime, the flavour is in it. Smear it with black pepper inside, thickly, cover it with as much flour as will stick, fry on cleared butter, 5 minutes one side, 3 minutes the other. Serve hot, sprinkle with lemon, enjoy.

Trout has almost no scales, no need to rip the skin.


I meant rosół, which is bullion. My bad. You don't let it boil, only simmer. Yust a few tiny little bubbles of air.


...and fry? You'll burn the onion.


right. And releases some enzymes that help to neutralise undesirable by-products of digesting fried meat.


You fry it quickly on very hot fat, just to create a thin layer of denatured protein around. Juices will go to the brew, but slower. Seems you get your flavour from spices.


I didn't say about cooking. You slice it thin, salt the slices, let it sit until it releases juice. Throw the juice away. Skin is hard to digest, some people may suffer.


Absolved.


In average shop is mostly 'mushrooms'. These are not considered mushrooms in Poland, I meant wild mushrooms.


Hm. Right. Your mother was French, wasn't she? Or Polish. Must be, why else would you be here on PF :)


Oh I see. And while at home you prefer deliveries :)


There's basically one form. Others are products, or dishes made with sadło. See the link above. It's in Polish, though.


I am not a butcher, I just cook now and then. We are talking cuisine here, not slaughterhouse :)


Nor does it make you antisemitic, but everybody knows, innit... :)

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


Žalgirio mūšis. Battle of Green Forest, or Green Wood. Hey, this is in London...

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]

[quote=ender][/quote]
too complicated for me, high politics. Good night to you all, good people.

That would be Pilsudskaus, right? Never mind.

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


That wasn't really helpful, MrG, beg your pardon... them Gerries? BB is, like, Żmudzin??

Ok, I give up. Too stupid for you Europeans.

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


I am at a loss, to be frank... What do you mean? :)

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


There's no difference. In civilised countries people are not forced to forsake their ancestry. In civilised countries history is researched and protected, not wiped out.

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


Tell Hans Mueller from Opole to call himself Jan Młynarz and see what happens.

Lithuania was always behind Korona in terms of socio-political development, from the very beginning, and it stays like that, sadly.

Travel / Poland wildlife and similar wild life where you live. [243]


Białowieża is considered the oldest reserve in Europe. Unless somebody finds someting more ancient:

The first recorded piece of legislation on the protection of the forest dates to 1538, when a document issued by King Sigismund I the Old instituted the death penalty for poaching a wisent (European bison). King Sigismund also built a new wooden hunting manor in Białowieża, which became the namesake for the whole forest.

The forest was declared a hunting reserve in 1541 for the protection of wisent.

That's from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82owie%C5%BCa_Forest#History

And I remember reading somewhere, that the last aurochs (tur) was killed some time in the 17th century by poachers in Białowieża.

Oh, let's do the homework:
The last recorded live aurochs, a female, died in 1627 in the Jaktorów Forest, Poland from natural causes. The skull was later robbed by the Swedish Army during the Swedish invasion of Poland (1655-1660) and is now the property of Livrustkammaren in Stockholm.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs

One of the pleasant things in the UK for me was both the similarity of the wildlife here and the subtle differences that made it even more interesting. Foxes on the streets are a sensation in Poland, common thing here. Meeting a stag beetle on a pavement in Bracknell made my day (or my night, as it was), since in Poland they are considered a rare species, and I never saw one ther. Poison hemlock right at my factory's fence made me check and recheck if this is not really a mistake. It wasn't. Tawny owl hooting regularly from the thin stripe of the Tube territory, amongst acres and acres of London suburbs. Bats almost hitting my windows in the London suburb. Rabbits, but no hares...

Food / Taste of food in Poland vs other countries [186]


Cheese that sticks to the knife is not matured well.

I found a good cheese today, smoked. Says Wheatlands on it. 1879. Lemme... oh, sorry, my mistake. Borde Kase GmbH. Corner shop. Selection of European cheeses, plus Gloucester and Leicester.

Seems every village has it's own variety. Problem is, you don't see them in the shops. Problem is, when they appear here and there, the name is like the most distinctive and interesting feature :) When an Italian makes mozzarella, he gets mozzarella. When an Englishman makes a cheese, he gets... say... Billy, got any idea for the name? :)

Well, I don't like English cheese, and we can as well stop here. It's under matured :)


Possibly, but it's no good. Right now I have a Galtee cheese in my fridge, and I have a slice now and then when there's absolutely nothing else there. It has no taste in it. Oh, Ok, I am not saying anything about goat cheese or things like that, it's not what Poles are really familiar with.

Polish imitations are not half bad, if you know what you're buying. I mean matured cheeses. And there is that Polish attempt on the Roquefort type, slightly different, of course, but on a similar level. I'd say better than Stilton, but his would be personal taste, probably. Polish Brie is not bad either.


Chauvinist, yes :) I just don't get it. You Brits have a fascinating history, England is the cradle of the industrial revolution, bigger half of the still functioning technology came from the Isles, The Isles themselves are enchanting, half the famous chemists and physicists were Brits, you made some great literature, you spawned a superpower, you language dominates the world, you invented football and modern boxing and you know your snooker, your Empire girdled the Earth, you were pioneers in some important social changes, like stopping slavery and sufragette movement, you weaselled out of the WW2 having virtually no trumps, English humour is top notch, everybody knows who Nelson was, you Queen is a world-wide icon, and you still defend a thing you call cuisine like your national survival depended on it solely.

The spirit of competition, right, typical British, but I am not for underdogs, sorry :)


What is there to stir, Dave? The horse is dead, stillborn, only you Brits try to animate it with magic of words :)


See? Thai, Chinese, or fish'n'chips. And I just had bitki w śmietanie. Self made, actually, and I am not a woman, never was. And not a cook neither. How many ways of cooking an egg do you know, Dave? What weight percentage of a pig the British butcher throws away, and what is left for dogs from a Polish pig? You'd be amazed. Your dog would starve. Have you ever tasted sadło? I can't even find it in a dictionary for you. You wouldn't believe how delicious a choice piece of pure fat can be.

What can you make from tallow? How do you know that fish is fresh enough, just by looking at it? How do you clean a trout before frying? What do you fry it on to get the most flavour? Why do you add salt to the clear brew, and how do you make it clear? Why add fried onion to fried meat, and what to fry first? What do you do to stewed meat first to keep the flavour? What do you do to cucumbers to make them loose that raw grassy taste? What is the first thing to do to cabbage while cooking it? Which mushrooms are good for drying, which for pickling, which you have to cook immediately? What fruit condiment goes well with duck?

Simple questions, I am not a cook. But I am Polish, so I know the answers :)

Food / Taste of food in Poland vs other countries [186]


Thinking coming from experience, maybe? Or is it just a vicious slander with no funding whatsoever, notoriously and successfully propagated all around Europe by 'we all know who'? Just like those ridiculous fantasies about French and Italian cuisines?


you all keep repeating this question and fail to see the repeated answers

Come to think about it, how many michelin jurors know where Poland is? How many michelins are there in Thailand or China? Those two places in Poland I mentioned are definitely 'worth a detour', which makes them worth 2 stars. They have none, funny.

Food / Taste of food in Poland vs other countries [186]


I just wanted to make the list as long as possible. Not my fault I had to include chinese and thai. :)


Well hidden, then. No English cheese can be properly sliced, it all crumbles to bits.


In Europe, say, the rest of the world hardly makes any cheese. So the 'few' looks a bit different then. Italy, France, Switzerland come immediately to mind.

British cheese is specific. You may like it, I don't really fancy it.


That seems like true, you bloody British chauvinist! :) But there are those new French supermarkets, and Lidl.



This sounds plausible, only tell me why the whole Europe agrees that English food is just bad and that the English can't cook? And that most Europeans agree that French food is superb, that Italian one is good, Spanish not bad, German as it is, and so on?


and I saw it numerous times on TV, during those wannabe chefs' contests. Highly regarded by the jurors.

You might be right, though, I don't really know how you get a michelin star. Doesn't matter to me much, the point is that a hotel does catering, and a kitchen does cooking, and the number of medals in the country doesn't say much about the national kitchen as developed and practised. You can buy a chef, you can't buy a Kitchen, if you know what I mean.

News / Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last. [533]


As far as I know, this discussion misses the point. It's not about diactrical signs, but changing the names. Jan Kowalski has to write himself as Janas Kowalicius, or whatever is the proper Lithuanian take on it. And this is an active attempt to sweep the minority under the carpet.

Food / Taste of food in Poland vs other countries [186]


People don't fancy eating in restaurants, what for. The new elite has to buy Lamborghinis first, dig swimming pools in backyards and pave them with marble, feed the rottweilers, and such. Michelin starred restaurants are the result of a wide network of catering premises, bitterly competing all over the country for the most cherished prize ever, innit. Just like in the UK :)


More or less, yes, excepting the exaggeration. Different discipline, so to speak, and possibly a heritage of the commie economy, to some extent.

Ah, I remember another place in Poland with good food, and the food being fish, and 500+ km from the coast. Another one known to those in the know only, I was lucky. And I don't count small eateries run by families here and there, for the 'extended family' of a handful of guests.


I ate it 6 years ago in a 4 star hotel. Or the 5 star one, I always mix them up. Special function, 'the best chef they ever had'.


fighting for medals and understanding cooking as a competition. It is, in a way, but there's no time limit and such, only the result counts. Result in taste. And this is not measurable.


Well, that's relative, isn't it? Tasty and delicious. My experience is both personal and from my friends, who in their majority confirmed that when the Brits compared their own cooking to cooking of Polish women, the verdict was delivered nearly in awe.


That's the problem, who means what by 'marvellous food'. But I'd take your word for it here... and there comes talent and/or commitment, hardly ever seen in the UK. Not to forget daily experience.


Negative, yes. It's not only experience of bad meals, it's the very 'design' of dishes, which can not work whatever you do. Grilled tomato can never be made good, it's just a waste. Mixing milk with scrambled eggs 'to stop the process right on time' is a crime, or at least a gross misconduct, it kills all the flavour and destroys texture.

Amathyst tried to convince me once that the famous, although not widely known pies are worth any sin. In my experience, if you try to bake a gravy inside pastry the result is just 'typical English food', as expected.

Unfair? I just never happened to routinely eat good English food in the UK, and mostly whatever I tried was just good enough to kill the first hunger, the second could wait no problem.

Good things I found in the UK were (in no particular order):
- cornish pasties, if spiced and prepared properly
- black pudding, if spiced as it should be
- European hard cheese; sliced, you call it? English cheese is under-matured, although I did develop taste for Red Leicester, I must admit; Stilton is not half bad either, but that's rather easy with this type. Lack of proper white cheese is a shame.

- biscuits. Top notch, and the variety to envy.
- Scotch Egg, a clever idea, and potentially really tasty
- ales, no comparison in the world, I am happy to believe
- fish and chips; simple, good, thanks to having sea at at hand
- cold roasts, those from slightly higher shelves, of course; Really good, can't say.
- mint sauce, unknown in Poland, a surprisingly fascinating condiment
- cranberry sauce, almost like the Polish one
- Hellman's mayo
- ketchup, a life-saver. Hellman's or Branston's.
- jams, not bad really
- butter, as above
- chinese eat-as-much-as-you-can
- thai food
- samosa, and those other Indian weird takes on fried stuff.
- spring roll... not so bad, in fact...
- peri-peri chicken, in places
- all day breakfast, to surprise you, because of it's practicality. If you skip the sausages, the tomato, don't ask for hash browns, ignore the toast, specify eggs as fried, forget how mushrooms can actually taste, and have ketchup at hand; keeps you going.