History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [337]


No, you did not. You said in #6 that "no atrocities can be justified, neither Polish or Ukrainian". That's not what I asked in #10, so I will repeat my question...

Would you say that when a group of people "desires something for centuries" (as you said) and the elites of the country where they live, the ruling class, don't want to satisfy their desires, then when the aforementioned group of people commits bestial atrocities on civilians - mostly peasants, women, children and the elderly - this is merely a "direct result" (as you said) of those frustrated desires?

...and just in case you missed it, I will repeat the second (but definitely not the last :)) question:

Were the Poles bestially slaughtered by OUN-UPA, the children tortured and begging to be killed next to their mums (you should try and read Volhyn survivors memoirs every now and then) - were they "oppressors and partitioners" (as you said) in Ukraine?

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [337]

How about answering my question from #10? :)


Another question, just to establish what you mean by that. Were the Poles bestially slaughtered by OUN-UPA, the children tortured and begging to be killed next to their mums (you should try and read Volhyn survivors memoirs every now and then) - were they "oppressors and partitioners" in Ukraine?


Indeed. A Putinist, hoping to turn Poles against Ukrainians, could do nothing better than propagate Pawian's thread to achieve his aim. Who knows - maybe he is a covert Putinist agent? Hmm... :):):)

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [337]


Something tells me that this suggestion, made repeatedly in the past by several members, shall not be followed. :)

Besides, let's remain calm - maybe Pawian just wants Poland to go the German way: let's apologise everyone for everything and then claim to be a moral superpower, lecturing everybody in Europe about decency, minority rights, democracy etc. Hmm... maybe he's onto something here. :)


Interesting. So would you say that when a group of people "desires something for centuries" and the elites of the country where they live, the ruling class, doesn't want to satisfy their desires, then when the aforementioned group of people commits bestial atrocities on civilians - mostly peasants, women, children and the elderly - this is merely a "direct result" of those frustrated desires? I'm just making sure if I understood you correctly.


Don't forget the Swedes, Alien. We should definitely apologise to them for brutally repelling their Potop and driving them back across the Baltic Sea. That was definitely uncalled for by Poland! We should have folded, so that today we would be a part of Sweden, "socially just" and with full tolerance of various minorities.

History / Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first [337]

This will be interesting :)


Are you - by any chance - suggesting that banderist atrocities can be justified by "centuries of Polish oppression"?

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


But I admitted it straight away some posts later. If I don't write about everything in one single post, it doesn't mean that I "cleverly omit" that. Really, Pawian, you must be a difficult person to live around - your willingness to ascribe bad intentions to people is astounding.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


As far back as I can remember young voters were voting for JKM and his UPR - it's a phase that a lot of adult teenagers in Poland went through :) This time however it's different - UPR never got even half of the support Konfederacja has now. Something changed and I wouldn't dismiss it with jokes about provincial Poland.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]

@pawian

The fact that Polish businesses cooperated with Ukrainian oligarchs in the process of selling the grain here doesn't take the blame away from the latter. They knew straight away that the grain will be sold on the Polish market (instead of being just transported through Poland, like agreed) and that's exactly what they demand at the moment - to open the Polish and other frontier countries' markets.

The fact that their prime minister is so impudent in his lies indicates - as Iron very sensibly predicts - that he might sit in their pocket, figuratively speaking. Ukraine is not one bit less corrupt than Russia and their oligarchs are not one bit less greedy. If you think otherwise, you display naivety unbecoming of your age.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Of course, and some of those businesses were - surprise, surprise - connected with PiS politicians...

wiadomosci.radiozet.pl/Biznes/lista-firm-sprowadzajacych-zboze-z-ukrainy-sa-powiazania-z-pis

... it was only after desperate farmers' protests that they withdrew from their shady proceedings.

Ukraine is not yet an EU member and they don't yet have full and unrestricted access to European markets; that's why the current mechanism of transit is in place to protect Polish (and also Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian and Bulgarian) farmers.


This is from November. As recently as June Ukrainian IPN director was giving us a lovely ultimatum, saying that there won't be exhumations if Poland doesn't take proper care of UPA monument in Monastyr...

wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/swiat/artykuly/8735483,anton-drohobycz-ekshumacje-wolyn-monastyr-ipn.html

... the impudence! :-/

About two weeks ago Polish IPN president informed that they still don't have permission for exhumation...


polskieradio24.pl/130/5553/artykul/3205933,wznowienie-ekshumacji-na-wolyniu-prezes-ipn-to-zalezy-wylacznie-od-woli-ukrainskich-wladz

... later he mentions that some exhumation works started in one village (Puzniki) but that without permissions from Ukrainian authorities the full process will take forever (we are talking about 1500 destroyed villages).

@pawian

War cannot justify everything. If Ukrainians are so reluctant to cooperate about Volhyn and feel so free to lie about us now, when they are so desperately dependent on our help, then after the war they will just tell us to f*ck off straight away. Remember my words when it happens.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Well said, Anti. It will take years for Ukraine to root out corruption and reform their legal and economic system. The road was long and bumpy even for Poland. We officially applied in 1994 and joined in 2004; in case of Ukraine it might take even longer.


Exactly such system is in place at the moment and PiS wants to extend it without opening Polish market for the grain. Identical measures are demanded by the Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovakian and Hungarian governments.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Of course he does, when he wants to fully express his indignation.


That is correct, and if some Ukrainians choose to be only 99% pro-Polish for this reason, then they have full right to do so. I reserve a similar right for myself.


Have you been to Russia? If not, you should go one day after the war. You would be surprised. I met only kindhearted and generous people there. People who are, by and large, poor but who will share what little they have with a stranger (and not exactly from a friendly country). A year in Russia? I wouldn't mind. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Pawian. :)

@amiga500

Yes, Pawian's analogy is not entirely precise and he realises that (we discussed it several times in the past) but one should not look for precise analogies on an internet board. ;)

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


I wouldn't say sceptical. I am 99% pro-Ukrainian.

The remaining 1% I reserve for those who glorify SS-Galizien and OUN-UPA, refuse the burial of Polish genocide victims or lie about my country. Sue me. :)

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Check out earlier posts, BB. He's just annoyed that I dared to expose the lies of Ukrainian prime minister and he nitpicks about some minor inaccuracies in my posts. :)

Every reader of this thread can judge for himself how serious my "lies" here are, especially compared to what Shmyhal said. Also, I linked an interesting article from German-owned Onet, written by a former diplomat during the 1st government of Donald Tusk, exposing Ukrainian lies. Well worth reading.

Besides, inaccuracies in my posts are meaningless, I am nobody important. On the other hand, what Ukrainian Prime Minister, and a trusted man of President Zelensky, says is very important. Especially when he lies about one of Ukraine's most important allies. As Feniks rightly noticed "biting the hand that feeds" - tsk, tsk, tsk.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]

@pawian

Thanks for constantly bumping my thread. :) This way more people can read about Ukrainian lies and their barbarous refusal to allow the burial of our dead.

As for the rest of your post... *yaaaaaaaaawn*

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


I'm just trying to picture Tusk and Kaczynski holding hands... hmm... a lovely vision. :D

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


After all those years of mutual hatred? I'd be surprised.


Yes. They should remember the fate of LPR and Samoobrona.

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]


That's one thing, but it also shows lack of trust towards traditional, established political parties. More and more people say that they are disillusioned towards "the system" (whatever they mean by that).

News / Polish Parliamentary Elections 2023 [933]

Recent polls indicate unexpectedly high support for Konfederacja (15.4%)...

wprost.pl/polityka/wybory-parlamentarne-2023/sondaze/11318338/konfederacja-bedzie-rozdawac-karty-po-wyborach-oto-wyniki-najnowszego-sondazu.html

... is it possible that they will form a coalition government with PiS after the elections? That would definitely be a plot twist. :-/

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


You will need a lot of patience then, because I won't play your nitpicking games. :)


We are all biased to some extent. If someone claims to be 100% objective, it is merely an extravagant pretension. A bit like claiming to be infallible.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Nope. It was another article in "Gazeta Warszawska" but as a leftist you would reject that source right away, so I linked a source more acceptable to you (but basically also exposing Ukrainian lies).

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]

Anyway, you dislike me and this may cloud your judgement, so you might want to read what Witold Jurasz, a journalist of Onet (a German-owned portal) and a former diplomat during the first government of Donald Tusk (Jurasz was Poland's chargé d'affaires in Belarus back then), wrote about the Ukrainian prime minister's lies...

wiadomosci.onet.pl/opinie/jurasz-skandal-zbozowy-miedzy-polska-a-ukraina-to-skutek-niedojrzalosci-pis/0r1wder

... he's a former diplomat, so he's using a more diplomatic language but still he calls a lie a lie.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Shmyhal made his statement very recently, a couple of days ago, when no blocking of Ukrainian grain was in place - on the contrary, the transit through Poland more than doubled since January, so your analogy fails.

He was lying in the vain hope that Poland would open our market to Ukrainian grain, to the huge detriment of our farming.


Too many question marks, too many emoticons. That indicates high level of emotion on your part as well.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]

I was just curious about the intriguing inconsistency in your attitude towards Russia (as it's definitely connected to your allegry to criticism towards Ukraine).

And I really don't understand why you think I sound pissed off. I'm not.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


It might have been certain people (more probably than not connected with PiS) who decided to help Ukrainian oligarchs to make money (for proper remuneration, no doubt) but it is them who wanted (and still want, as we can see from their constant demands to open the Polish market) to sell their grain here.


Not that simple really. I just can't figure you out - how can you reconcile being a liberal leftist with your hatred of Russia? You must surely realise that the sources of your life philosophy lie in the French but also - or perhaps especially - in the October Revolution. Your entire attitude doesn't make sense. Why would a rabid leftist hate Russia so much? It is, after all, your spiritual fatherland. Oh, well... people are complicated I suppose.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


But you didn't say "a lie", you said "lies" (and nasty lies at that). See? I can do the nitpicking too.


Nobody else here claimed that it's worthless, some people even think that the thread is "interesting with much needed info", so it's only your obsession. :)

The reason you're angry is because I exposed the lies of Ukrainian prime minister and discussed the pure barbarism of not allowing the exhumation and proper burial of OUN-UPA victims for over 30 years now. You have an allergy for even the slightest criticism of Ukraine, hence your blind fury. Quite sad.


Yes, I will try to make 100% of my claims absolutely accurate instead of 95%, not to encounter your fury again. :)

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Calm down. So much hatred is not healthy, even on an internet board.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


Does the fragment you quoted sound to you like an expression of being surprised? Interesting.


Do you really think I will play your nitpicking game? Forget it.

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


You're nitpicking again. *yaaaaaaawn*

News / Unfulfilled promises by PiS [558]


You started very well with telling Pawian to f*ck off, but then you went on to praise PiS. So, I found myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you and then disagreeing a couple of seconds later. Don't give me such a roller coaster at 11pm. :)

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


The only thing I wrote that could be - with maximum of bad will - considered a lie was writing "never" instead of "never, apart from a couple of days in April". :) Where are all those nasty lies? 4 million of accepted Ukrainians? Maybe an exaggeration, hardly a lie. See? You are just a sad, vicious nitpicker. *yaaaaawn*


Yes, you are. :)

You're only picking on me because I'm younger, smarter and more handsome than you. You must learn to control your envy. :)

News / Despicable Ukrainian lies [144]


It is you who react in a strange way to my posts, usually with vicious nitpicking. I don't recall anyone else picking on me in this way. Perhaps you have a problem with me but it's your problem not mine.


Oh, you read books - how nice! Too bad you understand little of what you read. :)


Hardly furious. More like annoyed and disgusted.