1920 Germany Lands in exchange for the Eastern Lands?

Would you give Germany its Lands (1920 borders) in Exchange For the Former eastern Lands From poland and a 1billion Dollar Support from Germany?

Who exactly is you??? :):):)

A German God

There's about 15-17 million Poles living there and hardly any Germans - what would Germany do with those lands? Even eastern Germany is depopulating, so whom would they send to settle even further east - Turks, Syrians, African "doctors and engineers"? Doesn't make sense.

Also, what power does Germany have to offer Ukrainian and Belarussian lands to us? Zagłoba and the Netherlands come to mind. And the same question: whom would Poland send to live in the wild Asian steppes?

No deal.

P.S. What are we supposed to do with $1 billion? Kaczyński spends more on food for his cat. :)

The Polish nation doesn`t get up in the morning for one billion. :):):)

The OP probably meant the Polish billion, namely trillion in English.

Also, that would be exchanging more ancient Piast lands for much newer Jagiellonian acquisitions. Nonsensical.

Better question would be: would Germany return old Slavic lands east of Elbe river (Berlin is an ancient Slavic city) in exchange for $2 billion, Kaczyński's cat, and life-time subscription to TV Trwam?

The ones that Poles gained through the colonisation of Ruthenia????
No way! The Piast dynasty is the Founding Mother of Poland and their lands are HOLY!

Oh, shut up, Pawian. You wasted enough of my nerves already. :-/


Now you're talking. :)

What on earth for? They aren't Germany's 'lands' anyway and of course nowadays a billion is peanuts.

The Piast era and 1920 are irrelevances anyway nowadays.

Forever and ever.


They are not its. They never were coz Germans stole them from Slavic Poles and the fact that Slavs had stolen them first from Germanic tribes in pre-Poland times doesn`t matter!

The ancient Polish lands are holy to Poles and Polesses. We protected them with out own chests and breasts!
Look!
See these two horizontally swimming fishes? They symbolise two major rivers: the Vistula and Odra Rivers. The first runs through central Poland while the other makes German Polish border.

We will never betray the Fellowship of the Fishes!

• 
  
  

@pawian

You are quite correct.

However, fish in the Odra river are a bit of a delicate topic these days.

Not much to add beyond what Kania has said.

You cannot give, what you do not control.

Yesterday I may have been making jokes about what piece of Ukraine, Ironside would like to annex... However - reality is of course more complex.

Trying to take my Russian hat off, and be a neutral commentator:

1) The "German" lands are primarily populated by Kresy-origin Poles. In many cases, entire villages were relocated from modern Belarus to current Silesia. Many of those people continued to "live on suitcases" for the first few years after the deportations, because they wanted to go home.

2) Many, very many, of Poland's greatest authors and statesmen came from the Kresy. Rej, who is considered the father of Polish literature, was born in modern Zhuravno, Ukraine. Mickiewicz was born in what is modern Belarus. The same man, that wrote: "Litwo, Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie". As a foreigner, these were my first introductions to Poland, and the way I came to take an interest in it.

3) Bottom line, Poland has a significantly stronger connection to the East, than it does to what it lost in the West many centuries ago.

The topic popularised in the Pawlak Kargul trilogy:

• 
  
  

I blame the union with Lithuania.

They drew us into countless wars in the eastern steppes where we bled out and wasted our resources instead of consolidating our lands in the West. Without Poland's Union with Lithuania there would be no rise of Prussia and no partitions, and today we would have similar borders but larger population and GDP (basically Czechia on steroids).

Exactly!

Through that alliance with Lithuania, Poles gradually got involved in the colonisation of Ruthenia and later Ukraine which proved so futile eventually.

EDIT

Well, maybe it's for the better. Do we want to be Poles or Czechs on steroids? :)

Don`t be so fast. What doesn`t exist, it shouldn`t be taken into the register! Ha!
Wow! You are really fast. :):):)


When I am concentrated discussing with you, my dementia doesn`t matter at all. Ha!

Yes, I will wait for 6 minutes before replying next time. ;)

Yes, I want to be a Czech for a year. I would drink beer every day and live a relaxed life, not worrying about wars, conflicts, invasions etc


5, in fact.

Interesting, but at the same time not surprising coming from the biggest lover of Latin Civilization on PF.


Poland would possibly not exist.

Absolutely natural for a Pole to describe the Grand Duchy as a ballast, but any person who is even a little bit familiar with Polish history will understand this is some very strong wishful thinking.

Lithuania is what gave you the muscle and weight to be what you were at your peak. If your plan was to grow this muscle by chewing it off from the Prussians/Germans next door... well! The Roman Empire broke its teeth on Germania, what can be expected then from its fan club which came into existence 10 centuries later?

Are you kidding me? Poland was the stronger one in the union.

Imagine if all this energy, all those armies, all the money etc. went west instead of east! Berlin today would have more than just Polish name to remind us of its Slavic past.

And even if we only got as far as our current western border - without these lands there would be no Prussia (the main engine behind partitions).

Czechs were closer to us ethnically, linguistically and culturally - we should have entered into union with them and go west instead of going east with Lithuanians.

Please, be so kind, and point me to the part of my post where I said Lithuania was stronger than Poland?

You are operating in complete fantasy land. Who would let you take the crown of Bohemia - which was firmly attached to the Holy Roman Empire and the Habsburgs specifically?

Your so-called nobles, approached Jogaila - exactly because they did not want to end up under some inbred Austrian - who they felt would trample over their rights. The Lithuanians, in turn, were actually amenable to being swallowed up by you, because they were mortally afraid of us.

This was the perfect marriage of convenience. Poland avoids becoming some personal Union under a Hungarian/Austrian center, while Lithuania avoids being smashed by Russia. Nobody else, would merge with Poland, as willingly, as bloodlessly, and for such a long time.

With them, you did not acquire some small bunch of forest dwelling Samogitians, but the original Lithuanians. The good Lithuanians. Millions of future Belarusians and yes, even some future Ukrainians.

Instead of being grateful for this magical moment of Polish history, you are here telling me you would rather be tongue kissing some Czech. Very nice!

Wow! You can distinguish between Samogitians and real Lithuanians! I thought only Poles could do that nowadays. :)


Now, that is taking the game a bit too far.


I thought that's what you meant by Lithuania "giving us the muscle". If that's not what the phrase means, then I apologise. You know this vulgar tongue we use here better than I do.

And, of course, you are right: this is pure fantasy but it is a very useful fantasy. It allows us to shift the blame for our failures and partitions on somebody else. Very comforting psychologically.

I understand you are inclined to view fellow Slavs as ballast, unless they have been thoroughly cucked by Latins, but all I meant is that adding some millions of people that are broadly your blood relations should not be seen as some tragedy.

Where does all this love for the Czechs come from? What happened to - "biggest country in europe", "shield of christendom", "teaching French to eat with forks"? All that, was thanks to ballast of Lithuanians.

Of course it wasn't a tragedy. Neither in the XIV century nor in 2022. And I suppose in both cases we have Russia to thank for - a kind benefactor whom we wrongly consider an enemy.

You should definitely consider a career in diplomacy, Bobi.


I suppose it's envy. Great beer, the capital city largely untouched by war, no partitions, uprisings or Christ-of-nations-level suffering... relaxed attitude, common sense, better football and hockey teams. We would probably get bored being Czechs very quickly but no Pole would refuse being a Czech for a year or so, as Pawian said. :)

Questions of repatriation have been asked and answered on this forum.
Why keep flogging a dead horse?

Yes, because Poles are pessimists and Czechs are optimists by nature. Which is easy if you consume the biggest amount of beer per capita in the world..

Is it painful? Sorry..hey guys stop it, the dead horse is complaining..


For it end reasult> ? I wouldn't go that far.
What I not like is that only Polish people are claiming legacy of the IRP, it was a join project, run by nobles from all corners.. Why Belorusans, Ukrainians and so on do not cliam their part in it? I mean they are happy to claim land if that siuts them (like Lwów). Yet why do they claim to be vitcims when their prominet ancestor have had run the show like Jarema Wisniowiecki? Just a small example, so goes with Wilno they clima the land claim to be victims yet their people are living in Poland as Poles Radziwiłłs ....They are seriusly messed up and Moscow is happy about it with it Ruski S'yt.

I quite agree, Ironside!
Until today, many Poles claim the right to sue the government of the BRD for lands stolen and the appropriated by the post-War German government.

As late as the mid-'80's, certain German fringe groups such as the Gottscheer actually petitioned their Parliament for formerly "German" territories, lost after the War to the Allies, among them parts of the erstwhile Sudetenland, and demanded back with full restitution, including the former Prussia, if you can believe it.

Add the that the still smoldering question of Jewish compensation for properties purloined by the Nazis, and you've got some witches' brew on your hands.

@Lyzko
Do you need help lyzko?
Looks like you are locked in a quite nasty place. Frequented by a spells of a time, dimension or awareness vortex, possibly a mixture of all those three.

Your posts reflect broken nature of your reality, can't make much sense or purpose behind it.
It occurred to me it could be your cry for help, or is it an echo of your personality destroyed by the vortex?