History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

Not really dear Madam.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

Towards the end of the war they were looking for anybody to fight the Soviets (1943-1944). Fact is that the Nazis have been trying to approach Polish Underground and convince them to fight against Soviets. Details are little hazy but that proposition has been rejected, yet until the Warsaw Rising Germans kept that option open.

They captured general "Arrow" Rowecki the first commander of the Home Army and over a year were holding him and were trying to convince him to German option. when the rising started he was executed.

UK, Ireland / London is Poland's 24th largest city [85]


Sure I do the old "bloody foreigners" complex. I just wonder what is has to do with reality? I mean people of London are for the most part immigrants or born to immigrant parents, grandparents and so on. Then there are people who migrated to London from other parts of the country. So ingenious residents of London are in minority if they exist at all as London has been for centuries melting pot for people from all walks of life and gene-pool.

Also you are laboring here under misconception that the UK government and the UK elite somehow give a flying copulation what commoners and plebeians think. Sure they are fast enough when there is a need to apse them and to keep them in line and contend to some extend but in reality they don't really care. I mean who has been affected by the influx of foreigners and who gained ? You can answer that one yourself I'm sure.

Also, do you think that an average Pole (and one able to read English) would think twice about what some Anglik in some borough think about him/her commencing to work in the UK?For him/her the clear indication would be availability of work, whether or not that work is legal and that about it.

The only way to stop further influx of people form the EU would be voting the UKIP into power. Which I think unlikely.
There is out there are people like you harping on about foreigners and immigrants and this or that. In fact they are powerless and impotent and they know that.

Instead they chose to vent their frustration on this or other internet forum to no avail.
I mean if you want implement some changes you need to change your country policy. I would think that one would be obvious cause ******* on immigrants do not help and there are always a chance they will **** back.

By the way feel free to come back here any time to say the same but I would like to listen to something new for a change. :)

UK, Ireland / London is Poland's 24th largest city [85]


Who is London?
Jack?

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

Poland had no resources and necessary pull to destroy Bolsheviks as the Marshal policy translated.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


He was rather of the mind that Poland should best rely on her own policies and strengths.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Rather because he admired Prussic Empire.


That is obviously what if qestion and none is pretending otherwise.
Although that could be interesting as a means to find out rationale behind Poland decision to refute German offer of alliance. So far it seems like a mistake.

It is even more pressing that you know as Poland at the moment is in fact German close "partner" not to say "younger partner". Question:

Was all those sacrifices and looses including lost of half of Polish territory and then 46 years of Soviet occupation were all for nought as Poland is back in the square one and in close relationship with Germany.


well would he won or would he just destroyed Soviets? that is the qestion for which there is no answer.
Only suggestion that given more time the western powers and the USA would have to really put their back into it and win the war in fact.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Well you can read between the lines or even between pages if you want but the fact remain that there isn't any such quote in Hitler's book. You have been caught.

The fact is that Hitler classified people as lower or not according to his whims with an exception of Jews and Bolsheviks.


What are you talking about?


Hitler wanted Poland in his camp. He wanted to use them to fight Soviets whom he seen as communist in his mind it equalled the world Jewry.

His beef with Poland and Poles came to be about the fact that Poland resisted him and fought hard against him. For Hitler they action were irrational as he offered Poland alliance.


Yet he worked with Slovakia and Croatia all right. Even Czechs were not that badly treated as Poles. In fact they were doing all right in comparison.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


quote from M Kampf please with the sentence saying what your claim its saying. Otherwise admit that you are talking out your ass.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


If you say so. I don't see the connection but you know better I'm sure.


nah he is harping about peasants this or that as if there was something wrong with being a one or having such ancestry, what wrong with peasants? Nothing, only bigot could even imply that.


How are you distinguishing between peasants and farmers?Do you measure their sculls? Ask them? What?
PSL? It suppose to be party for farmers.Where from did you get this peasant thingy, that historical expression.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Never said a word about you or delph. That was just exercise in hyperbole.
I know what you are Harry.


So what you are fretting about?


like delph harping about peasants? very pleasant, not bigoted and not racist at all, especially if some Aberdeen gangsta keep saying that. In Poland there are no peasant anymore, there are farmers.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


What one can expect form a colonial of German extraction who is ashamed of his former country and some gutter swept from the outer fringes of the globe. Hypothetically speaking - off course.


No, Poland have been fighting with one bunch of Ukrainians who had no communication with the other bunch headed by Petlura. so not quite the same Ukrainians. One were subjects of Hapsburg and other has been Tzar subjects.


Skip the nonsense. the fact is that said territory enjoyed Polish majority, the fact is that Czechoslovakia government agreed to divide that territory according to the ethnic borders, the fact is that they lied and chested and in effect used force to gain their objective.

Now, you are anti-Polish taken stance that somehow Poles were to blame.


delusion of grander kaffir?
Your financial arrangements and the place you sleep and shyte has nothing to do with the fact that you are taking anti-Polish stance on PF.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

First of all Polish central government constituted on and after 11th of November, so you are talking about action taken by some local organizations.
Polish and Czechoslovakian governments agreed on border based on ethnic boundaries.
Czechoslovakia claims were just a flimsy excuse for an armed aggression.


you are a troll, i own you nothing. Given the fact that you are always taking anti-Polish makes it a pleasure.


you seems not to be grasping a fact that they wasn't the same Ukrainians. (what is wrong with you?)What country? what backstabbing? what it has to do with the issue debated


no that was Polish ethnic territory and Czechoslovakia government under flimsy excuse used their armed forces to get it - simple like that.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


What Czechoslovakia territory? Are you telling me that Poland signed territorial agreement with Czechoslovakia prior to 1918?
So stop lying Harry.


Yet she felt need to broke a deal with Mr Hitler. Why? Because she had a close alliance with France and if France would have been involved in war with Germany they would have to follow their suit.

all is connected Harry and if you fail to see that you have no place to debate history shoo troll.


At the stage Czechoslovakia surrendered their sovereignty to international bodies and give up a large chunk of their territory without the fight. The only fair would be take back area with predominately Polish population and which had been stolen by Czechoslovakia by stabbing Poland in the back during her war with the Soviets in 1920.

Maybe they should wait and obtain such paper as given to Mr Hitler by the western powers to make good and legal his claim. I'm sure they would do just that if only they knew about your bureaucratic streak.

To be sure Poland's government obtained such paper from the Czechoslovakia government if that ease your pain.
Well I don't expect pan-European to understand complexity and quirks of the European history.
By the way what had happened with your country?

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


If you are implying some kind of agreement between those two you are wrong.


trying to imply things and making big issue out of small border dispute is a clear sign that some trolls here are bored.
Fall of Czechoslovakia came in two stages, in the first stage Germans took The Sudetenland and Poland their Cieszyn.The Second stage seen de-integration of Czechoslovakia as a state and then when so called invasion had happened and Poland had no part in the stage two.

There is the thing, Poland paid Czechoslovakia tit for tat.
The Czechoslovakian government in pre-war times snubbed Poland many times believing themselves safe. They calculated that Poland is in danger from both Germany and Soviets, whereas Czechoslovakia seen only Germany as a potential danger and lulled themselves into false sense of security believing that have pretty sound and cordial relation with Soviets.

Also Czechoslovakian government for most part of the early XX century was a darling of western powers mainly France.They considered themselves being in a close and cordial alliance with France.

When out of the blue they have been sold down the river and they long standing ally though nothing of betraying them.
Here came part I don't understand. Seeing how so called western powers are treating their long standing and praised ally, how they disregard their oblivions how they easily exchanged honour for convenience without even as much as a bating an eyelid. How they could have take their empty promised as a face value and how they could have refuse Hitler's offers and overtures.

It is clear that it was the only rational course of action at the time.
what were they thinking?
That is the qestion.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Joined? If you mean that they meet in conflict that you are right. But it wasn't some space Nazis but Germans, repeat Harry Germans.


Where is your country Harry? If you have none stop be jealous and talk smack about something you have no idea about.


Stop repeating that rubbish, how often your came backs are just sad and dry repetitions of already overused repertoire, you should learn as you go along and I'm sure that that qestion has been explained thoughtfully, only idiot or a person with malicious intent would saying things that he know to be untrue.


Such country never existed so couldn't have been sold. I see that you are up to your lies and trick.
Repeat after me Germans.


Criticizing? you are an ignorant but cheeky m***** who do know that much about Polish history and who do not understand history at all. The only one deluded is you.

We have two anti -Polish dudes in this thread. Anybody care to guess their names?[b][/b]

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

Well nobody deny that and that wasn't what Chris has written in his post.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


stop lying about Chris post, after all everybody can read his post and your pathological lies are quite transparent.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Nah i will stick with my version.


stop that nonsense I'm not British war office from the period. They would tell you what they could do in details if they ever planned for that, but they didn't and neither did France they simply duped Poland.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


any links or books?


Did they now? Never heard about it. Must be because of their negligible impact on the war.


What? do you want the details of something that never materialism? Very much like attaching gross of their forced to the attack and please do not put France out of the equation.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


we are talking - what if here Harry!
If Poland and Germany would have attacked Soviets would Britain and France take part in the war at the stage attaching themselves to Soviet and if so would that attack Germany? I doubt that.

The only way to help Poland in 1939 would be full fledged offensive - so yes they failed to help Poland - end of story.


In 1944 or in 1943? British had no jets before Germans.


Still percentage would not be altered much.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Not really, Poland had been developing military industry which full potential would have been reached by 1944.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


It all depends whether France and Britain would attack Germany over Soviets like they didn't do it for Poland.


No need, given the time Poland would develop their own fighter-plane that already had in the prototype stage.


well that would be highly unlikely.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]

I think that all rules were there to establish the real number of kills. Putting it all down to implied inferior methods of verification in Polish air forces is just a nonsense.

The same goes for RAF - they claimed more kills than there had been real kills.
All that has no real impact on percentage and that is clear for anybody who know their ass from their elbow.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


well wouldn't be percentage be the same regardless of the numbers of planes.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Norman Davies Rising 44 p 38.


That is not what I said. Surely undisciplined is in this case just a qestion of perspective or a one point of view.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Polish pilots represented of 10% of the total filers employed. On 15th of September they accounted for 14% of German losses, on 19th - 25% and on 26th 48%.

"Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by Polish squadrons and their unsuppressed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of the battle have been the same" - Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding.

I'm sure that you are in better position to judge - not.


Polish pilots were very disciplined, most of them have been career officers of Polish Armed Forces, they were highly motivated and had experience of combat with the enemy. Treating them as recruits didn't inspire they trust in British officers after all many of them experienced the same imperial attitude and pricksh arrogance in France just to see that country going down in only six weeks not that much better than Poland. Given that Poland was devoured by the Germans and Soviets together and France faced only Germany, had a year to prepare, and the fact that geography and borders were much more favorable to France.


I guess it easy to be a "victor" living on an island in the middle of nowhere - would you like to share border with Superpower - Soviets. I just wonder how long would you last - not really but.

Stop whinnying will you? I don't care one way or the other but i think it is a pity that there are some people out there who do know something about history just to be so bloody stupid about it. The facts are there and denying them do not make you bigger but makes you less, like a petty little haggler.

Be like that if you want but do not start with the imperial attitude in the next sentence that just comical.


No but the key role of Polish cryptologists should be recognized.That the way to do it properly, not to grab all the glory for themselves like insecure lying little sissy.


War not, but the battle which all others people mentioned by you couldn't win. It inflicted have losses on Polish soldiers whose homeland had been handed to Soviet and at the point in time Polish high command was well aware of the fact. From the malpractice point of view it didn't make sense for them to continue fight against Germany.

That tragedy and dilemma and all what was involved is completely lost on you.


That is a silly qestion - one I'm sure you wish to retract. It just illustrates that you understand nothing from history save some bunch of disconnected facts and dates.

Abilities, skills and fighting spirit of Polish officers and soldiers and their contribution to the victory cannot be diminished by the fact that Poland economy after 19 years of independence and without benefits of long term exploitations of colonies wasn't able to support armaments needed to win against Soviets and Germans combined.

History / How different would WW2 turned out if Poland accepted Hitler's offer [219]


Not everything you can find on the internet and in any case I cannot be bother to look for that specific piece of information. However there were definitively long history of diplomatic negotiation between Hitler and Beck. Also Hitler wanted Poland in his camp as primarily he wanted to attack Soviets.


You are way off course!
When would that happened? after or before Soviets would have been conquered?Would you attack Germany then?Really?


That is nonsense and rubbish.


Well, it is debatetable, depends what period you are talking about but given the fact that you constantly exposes your ignorance as to facts about Poland I can sadly say that you are wrong.

Anyway gov of the IIRP was actually very good.

UK, Ireland / London is Poland's 24th largest city [85]

Chicago bills itself as the largest Polish city outside of Poland with approximately 1,100,000 people of Polish ethnicity in the Chicago metropolitan area

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]


Most don't. Regardless it being bad or good. Pure fact.


They made it few time to strike deeply into territory of Poland and Hungary. It was in 13th and 14th after that the only Tatars attacking Polish Territory (now part of Ukrainian) came from their settlement on Crimea and those attacks were nothing more than rides to rob or steal people to sell them on Ottoman Empire slave markets. So if there were DNA admixture it was on the Ottoman Turkish and Tatar population not the other way around or seldom.


You are talking about Ottoman empire and 1686. They didn't have to cross Polish territory to make it into Austria. You need to read a couple of books more and do not forget geography.