Work / South African wants to move to Poland, please provide some input? [59]


I know - there's a ton of Turks where my family lives in Dortmund. I'm not exactly sure when the first waves started coming but I believe it was in the 70's or 80's. Germans tend not to have much of an issue with the Turks those - this group is far better assimilated and contributes to society far more than the migrant hordes that we have seen from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Kosovo, Nigeria, Eritrea, Somalia, etc. The Turks are like the 'modern Muslims' - I'd say their culture has been more European than Middle Eastern. Most people don't mind the Turks in Germany though - they're not the issue and they're not the ones causing attacks, raping women, blowing themselves up, and marching with Sharia 4 Germany signs.

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]


Racist idiots don't blow themselves up and massacre people in Brussels and Paris - unless of course by racist idiots you're referring to extremist Muslims.


Not really - corruption is far worse even in a country like Czechy.


Yes they do - Jewish dems and Jewish lobbies are among the largest backers of gay marriage and gay rights - at least in the US and I'd assume it's the same in other countries too:

adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/adl-and-the-lgbt-community.html.
haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.663193 - Jewish Groups Celebrate Historic U.S. Supreme Court Gay Marriage Ruling
Thirteen Jewish groups, among them organizations representing the Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative streams, were among the 25 joining the amicus brief the ADL filed in Obergefell v. Hodges.

jweekly.com/article/full/75081/bay-area-jews-celebrate-supreme-court-marriage-equality-ruling
The American Jewish Committee tweeted: "For 109 years AJC has stood for liberty and human rights.

and you silly goys thought the Jews have nothing to do with pushing gay marriage in the US


The Prince is one of my all time philosophy books. I'm a big fan of Descartes too. Not too big of a fan Nietzsche as I don't agree with many of his criticisms of European society although I love some of his sayings like 'The true man wants two things: danger and play' Most people thin Machiavelli was far too cruel, rationalistic, and totally lacking of emotion. If you like Machiavelli, check out a book called '48 Laws of Power' by Robert Greene

A 2013 study by the Brookings Institute found that 77% of terror attack plots in the United States were motivated by Islam. A 2015 study found that 99.5% of all suicide attacks worldwide were also motivated by Islam.


Totally agree. They only waddle their butts and do something when the media or some politician gets on their case. Then they calll the media, bust some amphetamine factory that they've known about way in advance, and done deal.


The amount of Palestinians that the IDF has killed versus the amount of Israelis stabbed by Palestinians doesn't even compare. There's thousands of Palestinians that have died due to Israeli violence and supremacy versus a couple dozen Israelis killed by rockets, stabbings, suicide blasts, etc.

Aisha's story is not unusual in the besieged Gaza Strip, where a 51-day Israeli assault killed more than 2,200 Palestinians this summer and injured scores more. The 2014 war created more than 1,500 new orphans, in addition to tens of thousands already living in Gaza

aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/01/orphans-gaza-20151612433820289.html

Imagine if Palestine or Hezbollah created 1,000 Isreali orphans - the whole world would invade the west bank or Lebanon.

Check the facts before you criticize the Palestinians as the aggressors - they are resisting an occupation - just like Poland did during WW2.

Work / South African wants to move to Poland, please provide some input? [59]


Start studying Arabic, stop shaving, stop showering, get a burqa for your wife and fly to Germany or Sweden - that appears to be the best way to get guaranteed housing and income in Europe nowadays.

Life / Warsaw is a difficult city to adjust to (coming from Canada and having lived in South Africa) Prague? [46]

There's a great Egyptian restaurant in my town - but yes, for the most part I will agree with you the foreign cuisine isn't that good in Poland. However, Poland's meats, cheeses, delis, etc. are way ahead of the rest.

Delph czech black market economy is significant - maybe not in terms of agriculture but certainly in terms of vice. I wouldn't necessarily consider a guy standing on the road selling blue berries and not paying taxes as 'black market' - typically this is classified as grey market by economists. Black market is huge in Czech - ever since they're decriminalized possession of all drugs there's been a big meth boom and marijuana was already huge there.

Work / South African wants to move to Poland, please provide some input? [59]

Sorry to hear your plight. It is truly sad how the whites are treated in South Africa after they've built up the country and economy. The discrimination and violence that whites are facing is hardly reported in media let alone the big six. We welcome you in Poland.

Some 30 40 years, a lot of Poles actually moved to S Africa because the government was providing housing and great jobs to whites.

Life / Warsaw is a difficult city to adjust to (coming from Canada and having lived in South Africa) Prague? [46]

The country has been stagnating for years - Slovakia isn't far behind at all, and if it wasn't for the large rural populations in both PL and SK, they would be ahead of the Czechs by now. I like the country, but it has some severe issues.

That's not true - I read one statistic that actually the Czech economy actually grew (in terms of percentage) the most of any EU country.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/czechs-power-eu-s-fastest-gdp-growth-as-romania-hungary-stumble

I really like Czech society - I've been there only about 3 times but I'm absolutely infatuated by Prague. I could totally live there - and the wages are a bit higher than Poland, on average.

Life / Warsaw is a difficult city to adjust to (coming from Canada and having lived in South Africa) Prague? [46]

It's ridiculous it's a pretty short distance actually but if you travel during the day it can easily take 5 hours. I honestly don't like driving long distances in Poland. Road trips in Poland are not for the faint of heart, especially when you're used to wide highways and driving a large car. In Poland people in tiny fiats are passing people going 100 kmh through the villages - even on corners sometimes.

I still can't believe this poster left Prague... hope she had a really good reason. That is one liberal country I honestly wouldn't mind living in - liberalism seems to work a lot better there than the larger Western countries.

Life / Warsaw is a difficult city to adjust to (coming from Canada and having lived in South Africa) Prague? [46]

I don't know why'd you'd ever leave Prague - that is by far my favorite city in Europe. I'd definitely take Warsaw over Cape Town, Johannesburg, etc. though.

I could see why Warsaw would be a hard adjustment. It doesn't have the best layout and even for someone who is pretty fluent in Polish it's hard for me get around the city. I remember the two times I thought I'd be adventurous and skip the 1 hour flight from Warsaw to Wroclaw and just drive instead... yeah never doing that again..

Did you move to Warsaw for family, work, school?

Food / Is brain-damaging vegan fad growing in Poland? [176]

You know what Polson I did some research over the weekend on the food we have in the US and I always knew it was bad but I couldn't believe the scale of it. I could go and on but my posts are already really long. I've seen the pictures of feed lots and even drove past a few while I was in college. My dad worked in a juice producing factory (there was constantly rats scurrying all over the place and would frequently get caught inside the huge juice vats) so I know it's gross. I didn't realize the extent of it - I knew it was bad with meat but I didn't realize it was just as bad with soy, corn, vegetables, etc.

Anyway, it would appear that the majority of soy and it seems like corn and lots of other plants all come from one company - Monsanto. The problem is, if a farmer wants to grow soy or corn in the US they're essentially forced to buy seeds from Monsanto and use Monsanto chemicals. The non-GMO type of farmers don't really stand a chance because they constantly get threatened by lawsuits for patent infringement. A Canadian court ruled that if a farmer's crop is contaminated even 1% by Monsanto's soy (keep in mind pollen can travel even up to 500 miles), they are found to be in breach of Monsanto's patent infringement (Monsanto owns the patent on GMO soy and several other GMO crops). The worst thing is, soy and corn are modified to make 100's of different foods and products. It's almost impossible to pick up a product that doesn't have at least 1 of the following - high fructose corn syrup, xanthan gum, saccharin, etc. I mean literally everything we eat is basically modified corn - potato chips, aspirin, yogurt, ketchup, mayonnaise, Coca Cola, etc. I mean literally everything is run on corn now - they even feed corn to cows which is totally unnatural.

It's the same thing, even worse possibly with soy - well over 90% of the US soybean crop is GMO. That means things like tofu, miso, soymilk, and a lot of ice creams and candies contain GMO soy. So it would appear that actually a lot of the vegan diet is just as filled with GMO stuff as a regular omnivore's diet - possibly even more since vegans tend to eat so much soy.

It seems like if you want to really eat healthy it's rather difficult and can get expensive - especially if you're in the US or Canada. You're really limited to just a few specialty stores and even then it's been proven that GMO crops cross pollinate non GMO crops. At least in Poland, GMO food is labeled - there's no labeling for GMO food or meat from cloned animals in the US. There's millions of dollars that have been spent to prevent laws from these from passing. Only some rather obscure foods like alfalfa, zucchini, and some squashes appear to not be majority GMO. The popular crops like soy, sugar beets, corn, canola, and even papaya are 80% GMO in the US.

The problem is that the people who are in the FDA, USDA, etc. are oftentimes people who use to work for enormous multinational companies like Monsanto, Dupont, etc. It's the same with the other branches of government - i.e. half of the treasury people is people who use to work for Goldman or Chase, the FDA and CDC is filled with people who use to work for big pharma, and with the food industry and the regulatory agencies that are supposed to control it it's no different.

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

I'll take that statement as a badge of honor. It means Poland hasn't yet fallen to multi kulitism. Let's just hope it stays this way.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


You realize that the Swiss government actually wants every citizen to have a gun in their home in the event a tyrannical government takes over? Yet there's hardly any murders. Guns are a great things... I personally have several.

The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 34 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations

wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
Brief summary...

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Again - I am just quoting the title... I didn't write this article or the opinions.

Personally, until the government does something about the ridiculous Polish bureaucracy and makes it easier to establish companies in Poland I really don't care about the Polish politicians' economic plans.

The farm one does affect me though in terms of selling my land - if that's what I decide to do in the future. I'd have to sell my land to a local Polish citizen who can prove will use it for agricultural purposes for 10 years and if I give it to a family member I have to prove they will also use it for agricultural purposes (or at least that's how I read the new law ... perhaps my interpretation is a bit incorrect I can speak, write, and understand Polish a lot better than read it especially when it comes to legal language) ... or the government will buy it if I can't find a buyer and pay me 'market price' which of course will be significantly less but that's fine. I can't even give my farm to my kids though. Then again, much in Poland is accomplished with bribes. I remember one time my grandma was driving down the street - and she spent time in the US so she had nice jewelry, nice clothes, and a bit of cash. Well, the cops pull her over and it says her occupation - rolnik (basically farmer). The cop laughs and calls his buddy over - 'Jurek, zobacz to, to jest rolnik'

I'll give you a quick example. Let's say that a hospital that receives money from the government wants to buy an MRI machine. Well, it's not as simple as say looking online, scheduling a meeting with a rep, and picking the machine/company that offers the best combination of price, quality, and service. Well, in Poland it's totally different. The purchasing manager has to basically type a report that they need a new MRI machine, explain why they need it, and list the specs that are required and purposes that it must serve - like i.e. an open seated one to appease people that may be claustrophobic and costs between $900k-$1 mil. Well, these specs are then given to companies who then submit a bid in a way - they basically say well we have this and this MRI machine that matches your specs. This list is then given to the hospital's purchasing manager and then submitted to the government because they're the ones that would pick which MRI machine gets bought - not the hospital. So usually, the government picks the cheapest one without as much regard to quality, ease of doing business, service, ease of use, etc.

This particular was meant to combat corruption and wasteful spending but it's created a crazy bureaucracy. I remember one kid who was studying Poland and got a scholarship. Great student, great kid. Well, one day he gets a letter that they won't be renewing his scholarship and that basically he's screwed. He writes to all these people and waits months for a reply. Finally, he gets a meeting scheduled with some guy who agrees that his scholarship was unfairly cut - he originally says that itll take a month or two to get an official decision from his boss. Well, the kid says he's already waited so long and wants to get back into school. The guy says he'll see what he can do - he ends up talking to his boss and within an hour has an answer - they reinstated the kids scholarship.

Starting a business is even worse - I thought incorporation was a pain in the butt till I saw Poland's laws - utterly ridiculous. If the government made Poland a more friendly place to open a business, not so much the economy, upholding of contract law, etc. but more so the crazy bureaucracy that has a lot of old Communist Soviet remnants, I would totally open up a business in Poland.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

I thought I'd share this -

euobserver.com/news/133337

Polish government promises constitutional reform

Poland's ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) has called for a public debate on updating the constitution, amid a bitter row over the government's attempts to reform the constitutional court.

President Andrzej Duda called the constitution a "work in progress" that reflected "times passed".

Food / Is brain-damaging vegan fad growing in Poland? [176]


Never said they did - I stated they were among the first to form animal welfare laws which groups like PETA fight for. PETA stands for People for Ethical Treatment of Animals


You don't have to be a vegetarian to put a dent into animal cruelty. Also, this is a practice that wouldn't end even if half the people in the world became vegetarians - for one you'd still have products and medicines being tested on animals. I think I'd rather have a new drug tested on a rat than a human being. I mean yeah it sucks, but it's a necessary evil. I'm not advocating cruelty to animals, far from it as I have pets and I love animals, but even other animals are cruel to each other. Ever see a cat catch a mouse? The cat tortures it for hours before it kills it. Also, some of the more extreme PETA types are against milking cows and many vegans are against drinking milk - but actually it's harmful for the cow if they aren't milked.

What are the pro's and con's though of being a vegan or even vegetarian? Vegetarian I can understand - there's hundreds of millions, perhaps even over 1 billion, vegetarians as many Hindus in India are vegetarians - plus add all the other vegetarians around the world.

Vegan though? I don't know that seems too difficult.

Here's a source arguing against vegan diets:
authoritynutrition.com/top-5-reasons-why-vegan-diets-are-a-terrible-idea
2 others -
empoweredsustenance.com/is-vegan-healthy
chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets

It looks like missing out on vitamins and minerals, especially b12, are the biggest concerns. However, it does state that blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer risk is lowered. I'd imagine that vegetarians probably have no issues with fiber intake either.

See in North America, it would probably be a good healthy choice to be vegetarian or maybe even vegan. Our food, especially our meat, is disgusting. Unless you buy it from a deli, farmer's market, or some specialty shop you're getting hormone infused, antibiotic, processed crap, and even the meat in specialty deli's isn't even close to the same as that in Europe. The food in the EU is just so much healthier and better tasting - even bland foods like yogurt.

Quite frankly, I just can't ever see myself giving up meat, nor do I really want to. If I gave up eating meat
for even a week, I'd probably eat like pasta, potatoes, rice, etc. and probably gain weight thanks to carbs and still feel hungry all the time. I work out pretty often and I usually do cardio only as a warmup and mainly do 2 sets of 5-7 reps with high weights. I don't take steroids or creatine - a protein based diet is my steroid haha.


Animals eat each other too - it's part of nature. I don't think a wolf or a bear would be quite as satisfied with a bowl of tofu than a plump dead deer.

I don't know, I just don't see much of a point to being vegan especially if Poland already has such wonderful food that isn't treated with hormones, antibiotics, and all sorts of other garbage like the food in N. America.

Food / Is brain-damaging vegan fad growing in Poland? [176]


I never said they were - I stated that they were some of first people to create animal welfare laws.


I know - I am only stating what Goring wrote in his private diary. He also wrote in his diary that Hitler planned to ban slaughterhouses once the war ended,


Actually no, the Nazis passed animal welfare laws both before they were the majority group in Parliament as well as after they were the only group in government. Many of the top Nazis, especially Hitler and Goring were legitimately concerned about animal rights.

community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960201&slug=2311809


Thanks Polson that's very nice of you but I was just joking. Although I do love bacon wrapped filet mignon as well as chicken, beef, veal, pork chops, fish, bison, turkey, etc. I honestly don't feel like I've had a good meal unless it has meat in it. The protein helps build muscle. I'd fell hungry all the time if all I ate was salad and tofu.

Also, tofu is nearly tasteless. I've tried tofu-turkey and tofu-bacon. It tastes nothing like the real thing. The only veggie food I really like actually is veggie burgers which is weird because I don't eat normal hamburgers (I think I've literally eaten maybe a dozen in my whole life) as ground beef grosses me out.

You can even get lion meat - exoticmeatmarkets.com/exoticmeats.html - it costs $5k for 4 ounces


No I don't live on a farm. Although I love animals, I wouldn't keep a cow as a pet but rather keep to provide food.

The 'guiltless grill' restaurants and vegans who say 'meat is murder' and criticize others for eating meat are the worst. Guiltless grill I mean really, so what I'm supposed to feel guilty for eating meat? They think that by only eating wheat grains and tofu that they're going to save the world and end cruelty to animals. Well actually, millions of animals each year are killed by white and soy bean combines each year. So the very same foods that they claim are so good for animal welfare actually results in millions of rabbits and other small animals having their heads crushed.

Food / Is brain-damaging vegan fad growing in Poland? [176]

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were actually one of the first groups to enact animal protection laws. Himler banned trapping and put severe restrictions on hunting while Goebels, a conservationist himself, described Hitler as a vegetarian.

Göring announced in a radio broadcast::

An absolute and permanent ban on vivisection is not only a necessary law to protect animals and to show sympathy with their pain, but it is also a law for humanity itself.... I have therefore announced the immediate prohibition of vivisection and have made the practice a punishable offense in Prussia.

PETA ought to be proud of their roots

That's fine... let the idiots eat that nasty vegan garbage. For every animal they don't eat, I'll eat three.

You guys in the EU are lucky though - you don't have the same processed garbage that we do in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Our food is straight up disgusting. Literally the meat and cheese especially just smells and tastes so much different in Europe than it does in N. America. Like you can almost smell all the nasty chemicals in it.

I almost exclusively shop at Polish delis but still, it's not the same as the original.

Well it's lunch time. I think I'll have a delicious baby cow sandwich. (Veal calves are to my knowledge the only animal which hormones cannot be used on for any reason according to the USDA, although some farmers still put in hormone implants and then remove them prior to an inspection. However, antibiotics are not off limits. Still better than nothing though).

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


It's actually an ancient Roman salute...

Another example of free speech banned in the West - in Germany using this salute is punishable by up to 3 years in prison as are dozens of symbols including the Celtic Cross, certain runes but of course no ban on Al-Qaeda flags.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I've never been to school in Poland past 1st grade, but I'd imagine that the education is very much influenced by tradition and Roman Catholic values. I highly doubt that a modern approach is taken towards sex, drugs, alcohol and other things most high school students learn in health class. I don't think that family planning is given much time in the classrooms or condoms are given out.


You're comparing raising a cat to a child... two different things. Yes, both require responsibility and sacrifice but cat does not require clothing, an education, constant care, and so on. If someone loses their house or falls very ill, they can easily put their cat up online for adoption and chances are someone will take it in. As far as adoptions, we've seen that adoption rates are very low in Poland. Also, yes if I was a woman, a condom broke on me during sex and I found out I was pregnant then I most likely would chose an abortion as I am not ready to raise a child - especially if I was poor, in the middle of my education, had a bad job, the guy doesn't plan on being a real father, etc. Although your comparing a cat to a child, I wouldn't take a cat into my home either as I currently have a dog and that's already difficult enough to deal with when I'm travelling.


Not every girl wants to be a nun. Would you really marry someone without seeing if you're sexually compatible and that she isn't a cold fish in the bedroom? No thanks...

I think the biggest failure is the lack of proper sexual education, teaching why and how to use a condom, and providing condoms anonymously.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


The problem is that if one doesn't have a legal option for abortion, they will have to try other means and see what they can and can't afford. If a woman cannot afford to travel abroad to have an abortion, she will have to go the dangerous route. It's not that they don't know it's dangerous - it's that they oftentimes don't have another option or may not have been educated on this topic. Drinking alcohol is a leisurely activity - it's not going to matter much in the grand scheme or your life if you get drunk one weekend or not. However, having a child and keeping it or not is a decision that does affect a person through their entire life.

Also, many women in Poland are not educated on abortion as this is something that isn't discussed very much. You can't even have an abortion in Poland if you're unable to raise a child or a condom accidentally ripped during sex and you got pregnant. There aren't exactly lots of pamphlets available on these topics in health centers, family planning facilities, or gynecologists like there is in the US where a woman can obtain good non-biased scientific information. All a woman in Poland can really do is ask friends or read about the risks online - where of course she's going to run into a ton of biased sources. Perhaps if she is very poor and desperate and cannot afford to travel or afford a sympathetic doctor, she may willingly decide to do the abortion herself.

Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [511]

I've always wondered that... my dad is pretty dark skinned for a Polish guy - almost like gypsy colored but my mom is super white. I'm darker than my mom but nowhere like my dad. All 3 of us have blue eyes.

We joke that he's part Mongol since he has beady eyes and dark skin hehe. Most Poles are pretty light skinned but there are a handful that are pretty damn dark for Europeans - not like black or Hispanic, but like almost a light Indian/Tamil/gypsy type of color.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

A couple of people that get off to 2 girls 1 cup videos don't represent even a small fraction of most polish people, or humans for that matter... There are pederasty groups in the US too but I highly doubt the age of consent is going to get lowered because of these groups. The vast majority of people find that kind of stuff disgusting. I don't see how a sexual perversion correlates to abortion.

Thank goodness. PiS is pushing the envelope too far, too quickly, and too soon. Even though most Poles identify as Roman Catholic, we don't want a theocracy. I like their economic plans and wishes to help families, but their social views are a bit skewed on what most Poles expect in their country. Let's not forget that under Communism the abortion laws were more lax than they are now.

It was nice to see Polish women walking out of church - big message to the church and PiS. I understand them 100%. I remember when I moved to Florida I found a Polish Parish and would go just about every Sunday. Literally almost every like little sermon towards the end of the mass before the final blessing would be some pro life, abortion hating message. It really got old after a few weeks. There are much more important things than people deciding what a woman they never met should do or not do.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Actually, it does have a valid point. It's easy for a well heeled politicians to make judgments on others. If one of their daughters got knocked up, I'm sure they'd send her abroad for a quick procedure rather than have voter's find out about that a politician's unmarried daughter had an illegitimate child.

This law won't matter to the wealthiest individuals who can afford to go to Germany, Czech Republic, etc. It affects the women who cannot - which is the poor who do not have money to pay for a plan or train ticket to another country plus the medical costs.

This really is more an of an issue for PiS than the church - every Catholic knows the church's official stance on abortion... but for PiS to take such a radical approach is going to hurt their party - not so much the church.

What about the Nazi's that raped Polish women? Would you allow those women to get abortions? What about my dying grandma who, upon her own request, got a shot of morphine so she could fall asleep and go peacefully - is that murder too? I'd argue that's more 'moral' than having her suffer even longer.


Kind of sounds like something Stalin or Mao would say. Ever heard of free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, right to pursue happiness? Religion or lack there of is a private matter.

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/04/02/poland_pushes_to_end_abortion/1219893

Beata Szydlo - But she also made clear that this is her "personal opinion and not necessarily that of all members" of her conservative ruling Law and Justice party. Szydło said that if the bill is taken up by parliament, she will not insist that all party members vote in favour of the proposed anti-abortion legislation. "Each of us will be guided by our own conscience."

She is allowing her own personal views and beliefs to be made law affecting everyone even if they have a different belief - that's not right.

What if impregnated your daughter or your wife? Would you still not allow them to get an abortion? Would you rather raise it as your own or send it to an orphanage where it has an abysmally low chance of being adopted (estimated 80k orphans, a hundred a year or so at best are adopted - only 35 in 2012 according to the US Dept of State)?

If the Catholic Church never killed anyone, never tortured anyone, never sent children to fight their wars, never molested a child, never massacred other religions, and most of all never hid their own sins and was open and honest with them, then perhaps I'd listen to them a bit more as a moral authority.

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]

Actually more of it from here - historyfiles.co.uk/ yes some of the maps and quotes I got from Wiki....

Here is a complete history of Poland, the tribes, cultures, etc. that inhabited it from around the last ice age up to modernity

historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/EasternPoland.htm#Lusatian

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


That's the problem. Yet these same individuals that love a church and state union criticize Iran and other Muslim theocracies. This new PiS law would mean that Iran's official stance on abortion is more liberal than Poland's... that's just sad... By the way, Iran's laws are very similar, actually even a bit more liberal, to the 'pre-ban' laws that existed in Poland.

What about condoms? Should PiS and the Catholic Church make that illegal too? I mean that's preventing human life from forming...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

When you wrote this I assumed you meant abortion in general:

Ironside - Anyway I fail to see logic in the reason given for decriminalization of abortion

Abortion is said to stop a beating heart and it is killing 'life' - I don't think that's the argument. The problem is more the lack of separation of Church and State and a bill that will harm poor women the most for years since PiS controls both houses and it's going to just be that much harder to undo this law in the future.


I guess my grandma was murdered then. She had cancer and was on her last leg in her mid 80's - bed ridden, going in and out of the hospital, family struggling to pay the medical bills, etc. She got really sick as a result of all the meds, chemo, radiation, etc. she was taking and stated she was ready to go. The doctor gave her a shot of morphine, to make her comfortable upon my grandma's own request. What is more moral - ending a person's suffering upon their request or saying no and further allowing them to suffer because 'morals' tell you that shot of morphine murdered her?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I simply stating if the shoe was on the other foot, these pro-life men would be singing a different tune- or at least privately.

Mitt Romney is one of the most pro-life politicians there is - yet he had huge investments in the company I worked at despite knowing we deal with abortion clinics and they're among out best customers. We have an entire division dedicated to that waste stream.

The problem is this is going to hurt poor women the most - the ones who don't have enough money to travel abroad for an abortion. Your adoption method is totally flawed. So let's even use that government figure of 1,900 abortions a year - which seems way to statistically under reported, but we'll use it anyway. Let's say even 200 of those children get adopted - which would be a rather high figure. That leaves you with 1,700 orphans, children the result of unwanted pregnancies, children the result of rape/incest, and children with health issues and little to no quality of life.


Exactly. Free will. So leave it up to the woman and her conscience. Let her decide if she is ready or not to raise a child. Let her decide if she has the time and resources to care for a child with Down's. Let her decide if she will go to hell or not after her cousin raped her.

What about the Polish 'materacy' that served as comfort woman to the Nazi's during WW2? Would you let them get abortions?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Polish women travel to get abortions in other countries:

reuters.com/article/us-poland-abortion-idUSTRE67P46Z20100826

Official statistics show only several hundred abortions are performed every year, but pro-choice campaigners say underground abortions are very common. That's probably where I got that 1,900 abortions a year figure... I'm guessing that is not the correct number seems far too low.

"We estimate... that on average 150,000 abortions are performed per year," Wanda Nowicka, head of the Federation for Women and Family Planning, told lawmakers at a meeting in the Polish parliament on Thursday. This estimate seems a bit more high, but definitely on the right track... 1,900 abortions a year? Maybe for a country with a population of a few million but not 38 million..

An illegal abortion in Poland costs 2,000-4,000 zlotys ($640-$1,270), compared to 400-600 euros ($510-$760) in Germany, 280 euros in the Netherlands and 450-2,000 pounds ($700-$3,120) in Britain, they said. That's a lot of money for an average Pole, let alone a woman that very well could be unemployed/underemployed, unmarried, etc. The upper middle, or even middle class woman will be able to afford these costs.

Here's one from a 'pro-life' website - lifenews.com/2016/04/04/poland-prime-minister-backs-measure-to-protect-unborn-babies-by-banning-all-abortions/

I wonder what would happen if a priest knocked up some girl - this does happen in Poland especially in more rural areas ... would they still be singing pro-life praises or would they want to hide their shame? What about if the PiS guys knocked up their mistress? I'm sure they'd want to keep it hush-hush. All these pro-life guys are so adamant about this topic till one day pull and pray doesn't work out so well for them and they don't want a kid. Then, they're the first ones to think of 'other options.'

Website about a Polish abortion doctor in Germany - discusses the '2 minute' procedure - natemat.pl/110965,polski-lekarz-wykonujacy-aborcje-w-niemczech-to-maly-krotki-zabieg-trwa-dwie-minuty-i-pacjentka-idzie-do-domu

I tried to go on the website stopaborcji.pl but it has a ton of spyware so I had to shut it done.

I'd like to add that I have seen the effects of abortion first hand - it really is a very nasty, disgusting practice especially in later term pregnancies. I use to work for an international medical waste company and some of the more unscrupulous customers of ours and even truck drivers would buy and sell dead fetuses for everything from the placenta, to certain hormones for body builders, to medical research on growing organs, etc. This was a small amount of people involved in this but it did include some people looking to make some side cash at Planned Parenthood. Nonetheless, abortion is a necessary evil. Think of if you got raped by some alcoholic or even a family member, or found out that your child would have a serious medical condition and there's no way you could support him or her on a secretary's salary, let alone provide some half decent quality of life.

When I typed in 'Poland Adoption' this is the second website that came up (the first was a US government site)

saintmaryadoption.com/international-adoption/poland-adoption/

It states 'When you talk to someone at our agency, the information we provide about Poland adoption is based on real experience. That is 16 years of experience and over 190 Polish children placed.'

In 16 years, they had over 190 Polish children placed... doesn't sound like a huge success to me...

On adopt.com, I found that only about 70-110 children from Poland are adopted in the US.

Also, most people want to adopt a healthy baby - not many want to take in a child with Down's Syndrome as it takes up even more time and finances than a normal child.

Doesn't seem like adoption is totally viable Ironside...

What else would you suggest then? An orphanage?

History / Sarmatism in Poland [119]


He is correct - those groups you mention are just some of the more than 20 groups that would've fallen under the 'Lechite' branch - modern day Slavic people that spoke similar languages and lived around Poland. Again, he's referring to 'do polowy 8 wieku' around the time of the Christianization of Poland. Mieszko I stated that he wished to unit the various Lechite groups - Lugii, Venti, Gepids, Rugii, Polans, Silesians, etc. If we're going by specific tribes and groups then yes, those would've been the people who dwelled in Poland around the 8th century. However, these tribes/small city states would've origined prior to the 8th century from a mix of Vandal/Goth/Norse/East German/Sarmatian mix - of course depending on area - the people near the Baltic like the Rugians would be more influenced by Norse/Goth than say Lugii which would've been more influenced by Vandals/Germans and possibly Sarmatians even.The Lusatians were way before this time (1000BC-500BC).

The Lugii have been identified by many modern historians as the same people as the Vandals, with whom they must certainly have been strongly linked during Roman times

Also, remember that sometimes names like Lugii or Vandals can be interchanged - depending on how specific we want to get. Herwig Wolfram:"In all likelihood the Lugians and the Vandals were one cultic community that lived in the same region of the Oder in Silesia, where it was first under Celtic and then under Germanic domination."

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News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I am saying that poor women will have it much more difficult to keep a child. A parent ought to provide clothing, shelter, food, education, medicine - all these cost money. It is much harder for a poor person to provide. Furthermore, a child that is born with some serious birth defect has hardly any quality of life. If the parents cannot afford the costly treatments, psychiatrists, therapies, special schools, and well as constantly being around the child it really makes things difficult - for both the child and the parents. The parents will wonder who will take care of the child once they are gone or simply are too old to work and care for the child. What then, especially if they are middle, lower-middle class Polish family?

I was a fan of the PiS government - I like their economic policies, I'm glad they're being tougher on foreign investors taking advantage of Polish economy, and I'm glad that to see that they wish to give 500 zl to Polish families with more than 2 children.

However, this is a blatant violation of separation of church and state. The only reason they did this is because they control both houses and it's going to be that much more difficult for PO or any future governments to overturn it.

No matter how you look at it, abortion is a necessary evil. You can't fault a woman to terminate a pregnancy that was the result of rape or incest.


I know - that's why I am firmly pro-Choice. I identify as a conservative but PiS really went too far with this. The only choices a Polish woman would really have is go to a neighboring country like the Czech Republic where abortions are legal and not as expensive, finding a sympathetic local pro-choice doctor, or buying RU-48 off the black market - which you don't know if it's the real thing or a Chinese/Indian counterfeit with little to no active medicine.

This is a slippery slope. I am a practicing Roman Catholic but I still believe in separation of church and state. What's next - a PiS ban on condoms? How can you guys be totally supportive of this ban yet lambast Iran and other Muslim countries for being theocracies? Poland is already backwards in terms of social services. There is little support for the people on the lowest rungs on society - the alcoholics, the abused woman, the drug addicts who want to get clean, the gays, etc. I don't think pray the vodka/abusive husband/gay away is going to work for the majority of people...

The upper-middle class will be fine with this ban - it won't really matter to them. They can take a train or a plane to a number of local countries and have the procedure performed in a professional setting. This ban is going to hurt the people who need it most - the poor since they won't be able to afford travel and high medical costs.

I really hope that this ban is changed soon.. the last statistic I heard was that around 1900 women have abortions a year in Poland. Seems like a lot of time and money spent on something that only a minor percent of the population participate in... There are much bigger issues at hand - leave the women alone.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Yeah pretty much. Only other options would be to try to get the abortion pill illegally - and I don't think that works after some period of time. I don't know - people need to be more cognizant about the child's future and not just keep having a bunch of unprotected sex like rabbits.