News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Ok, thanks, Seanus.


So, without touching the ground, some technical problems happened in the airplane and this wasn't mentioned in official reports. And, this is informed by military prosecutors, in another kind of report.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


Who is George Miller?

Life / Why Polish people should be proud of being Polish? [370]


this isn't a thing to be proud of. however, you can be proud of bringing down artificial communists Russian Soviets. Note that Europe getting poorer and poorer who were anti-socialists/anti-communists before will be socialists/communists more and more.. One wonder what will be the new position of Poland then. We'll see after the change in Western Europe.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


russian weather? weather too has a nationality? lol. (perhaps, you mean it was an artificial weather, artificial fog, who knows. i thought that too and it's not out of technology today, is it.?)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

This is interesting even though their approaches of Polish officials in commision can be understandable.. (only reason I can think of why they talked different to families is that they might have difficulty to say their lost ones' faults.) On the other hand, their talking different to journalists can be considered as "blaming russians totally even by words in open media may lead to a war that won't be good for Poland as it can be food by the powers." Poland's officials can speak so, normal, understandable.. However, speaking different to families and journalists and everybody knowing that means, for us ordinary people, somethings strange and this is known by those officials too even if they are on Russian side or not..

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


There are some human sounds/voices there at 00:50-00:52
(a Pole say same thing in his comments under youtube, in his native Polish as well.)

With a noise filter, it can be decipherable easily. (he says it is a polish sentence.)

---

Anyway. If we back to the report, one of main blames, perhaps most highlighted one, is poor pilot training.. as Monia just mentioned above and Delphiandomine approved/agreed well.. which I too agree. (then, it is not accident, it is a suicide..)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


JonnyM's copied post from Guardian.co.uk above summarized the analysis well. I sign & stamp it.. We are expected to sign & stamp the report too? If we do this, we are above the prime ministers, presidents, etc.. Maybe, that's why Poland defence minister resigned after this report. Also, I thought people like Monia here are saying that the report is false, not enough, etc.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


which direction shall i go? focusing on the final report only?

(my point/question with this video was about their opinions of Poles, rather than someones else, as Poles know Polish better than everybody here who have been discussing things here. Anyway, it was only a question that wouldn't lead to more discussions at all. What did Poles here on the forum say about these talks in the video?)


as much as you can understand the difference between the accents?
(understanding accent differences isn't so easy unless you are local. And, Jonny, you aren't local, but, a British.)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

falsified by who? JonnyM, do you know Polish and/or Russian?

(why do you not let Poles here answer to this comment on youtube? There is a claim by an average Joiski that says "people speak polish there with russian accent - except one that says - i live.." )

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Jonny, from your paragraph you copied from Guardian news column, someone mentioned a youtube video about a man who took a video just after the incident. Probably, many of you already know it. Here it is: ...

I found the video interesting. Since I didn't know Polish/Russian, I read their comments of people under this youtube video there and when I read this comment below in italic, I found the video more interesting. Maybe, Poles here can confirm?

megamakin says there on comment page 3:
Did you ever heard when people from Poland talking in their language? Did you? I think you didnt. All voice what you can heard on this video, is with russian accent.

But something strange is in 00:54, there we can heard a polish word: "żyje". "I live".

This moment is strange and scary. I don't know what i think about that. This one word is with Polish accent, propably this is polish voice.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


Maybe, prosecuting Russians too in Russia by Russians too already started, who knows.. Don't be so sure.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


So, civil or military, it is flue if investigators are not sure. Investigators (Russians) there at the location of incident chosen then it was military flight. It is okay. When it is military flight, the investigation rules change, isn't it. In this case, if there is assassination, it is military crime.. (do you think that Medyedev's pressure on some many generals there has anything to do with that?)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Delphiandomine, perhaps, you didn't see my question to you in this sequence on page 5:

Delphiandomine, was that flight President of Poland flied a military flight or a civil flight?

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


This is real life. Is it accident, pilot's unintentional error, OR assassination, an intentional error of someones? If people were sure it was accident, there wouldn't have been discussion or discussions would be technological, philosophical, etc.. Probability of assassination is more scary as it means a big group of murderers are among us as this can't be organized by an individual or by a small group like al-qaeda.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


I don't see any difference than the report about twin-towers. Twin-Towers report became like porous papers with many holes, by "speculations!", but, nothing changed.. except Bush lost the elections at the end. This Smolensk report maybe is prepared better, but, it doesn't matter. There are many doubts. My doubts aren't important, doubts of ordinary Poles are important and I don't think many of them read the report even. Why? Ordinary Poles too know that the report is non-credible.

(btw, Medyedev started a revolution in Russia top level? Heard the news that many generals are resigning there, requested by Medyedev.)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


Well, as an outsider, having heard from people here now that he was a person not liked by Europe, Russia and present party of Poland, a report prepared in this medium by these people are less trustable than speculations.. So, I'll speculate more.. His lose of election maybe wasn't guarantee. Even if he lost election, then, only Kacynski would lose the power. There were 96 more people there of whom half of them would probably have stayed at power even Kaczynski lost the election.

(I understand you are trying to say that there was no reason for assassination.. but, it seems there was.. However, still, existence of reason for assassination doesn't mean assassination happened.. but, proof of accident or assassination in this case, can't be done by these reports that were prepared by a surrounding whole community, including EU, Europe, Russia, partially Poland, etc who weren't liking him. So, rather than technical details, somethings else need to be discussed if the goal is really to understand assassination or accident. Maybe, in time, someone/s will speak/confessions, who knows.)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


I didn't mention Judaism. Delphino mentioned his works with Jewish community.
(anyway, okay.)

By the way, people, you all say this discussion here is about final report.. technical details, etc etc..

But, he was a person who wasn't like by European politicians, not by Russiams either and his rival party is in power in Poland... These are your words.. So, how will i trust all these technical details, reports, etc?

(as a total outsider to this Smolensk incident, irrelevant one, so not biased one, i see all these are like theater... We have a saying here that can be translated as "you are playing (musical) instrument yourselves, you are dancing yourselves.".. )

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


You see that flight to Smolensk as a military flight?

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


Hmm. Quite possible. I hadn't thought these.
Any document was found in the ruins of airplane? Or, anyone survived?

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Wait a minute, Delphiandomine:

Monia said somethings like this "Smolensk wasn't so good/proper airport to land (even in the clear air.)"
She didn't say anything wrong. All people know this. There is always risk at any airport and at Smolensk, there are more risks.

You objected this, to defend Smolensk airport too..

Delphiandomine: "Strange that the same pilot managed to land there three days before in the same plane at the same airport, without problem - if it was really so dangerous, how come they managed then?"

What has your these words to do with the average conditions, not being perfect, of Smolensk airport? I drew an analogy by saying this:

Nomad: "Are you serious about this question? If I close your eyes, can you still walk easily on the narrow path that you walk everyday?"

And, you changed the dialog by deviating from airport by bring an additional parameter "existence of president and vip" this time.

Why didn't you say simply this "yes, Smolensk airport isn't so good airport and weather condition/fog made things worse.." - Instead, you tried to defend even Smolensk airport and this shows that you'll defend everythings Russian and will try to kill any evidence/logic that you'll not like. You say we should not believe a journalist. Shall we believe Putin? Isn't ok if I believe my own logic that says this Smolensk is nothing else than a liquidation?

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


(this isn't an answer to my question above.. anyway.)

About landing on April 7, three days ago, you mentioned above:

“Few day before the planned visit of Lech a Kaczynski in Katyn, landed the head of the Russian government Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Donald Tusk, with the help of particularly delivered a radar device, on 7 April on the Smolensker airport. On Saturday 10 April 2010 the equipment had disappeared” - Julia Latynina commentated on Thursday in “the Moscow Times”. Nevertheless it added that one had prepared a strategy during the Tusk of visit also, as one lets the visit of the Polish president Lech Kaczynski treat by Russian authorities “as redundant” can.

Colonel Bartosz Stroinski, which on 7 April as a commander Tupolev Prime Minister Tusk flew to Smolensk said that the crew accomplished the landing with the help of the standard equipment local military airport. It granted here that conditions were rather bad locally. Considering its one must ask oneself however, what drove a Iljuschin-60 after Smolensk, which accomplished there alleged landing attempts, which one should assign possibly later Tupolev for the time of the approach of Polish journalists, although this undertook only one attempt.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Are you serious about this question? If I close your eyes, can you still walk easily on the narrow path that you walk everyday?

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

I think the parts in the report referencing blockboxes are not too credible, opinion of an expert here:
smolensk-2010.pl/2010-05-10-long-hands-of-fsb.html,
as there is a serious claim above that the blackboxes were decoded, partially deleted and or falsified. All info we have from inside the airplane should be taken aside for a while. In this stiuation, met reports from satellites too are not too credible, imo.

So, the only data we have is what is available from Warsaw and Minsk (considering that Russia is a suspect, forget their claims and words too as they are good at info chaosing.)

According to Polish report which is confirmed by Russians too, those times you mentioned above and I summarized above in my post above are strange definitely. Why there is a communication with Minsk too? It is to create further chaos in info? Minimal info is times you mentioned above are absurd definitely. As if "accident(!)" was tried to fit the accident book..

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

What assumption? You wrote it above that pilot assessed the weather info with the controller in Minsk at 06:14... (this was given in the report, isn't it?)

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]

Fog began to appear as early as 00:10 (met time histogram of climate data is available to access?)

Yak40 landed at Smolensk at 05:17 for half an hour - so, till 05:47 (but, Warsaw Military Airport controller didn't ask the crew of Yak40 about the weather.. This is strange.)

Then, the same controller in Warsaw Airport "asked" the weather condition at Smolensk at 05:50 and passed this info to the met-on-duty on 06:32, another half an hour.

Tu-154M pilot got the weather info probably by around 06:10 when he found itself already in the fog and confirmed it with the controller in Minsk at 06:14..

Confirmation of weather info with Warsaw, etc and decision making process in the airplane took about 15-20 minutes which wasn't enough and probably, the president made the final decision, landing, as remembering the airplane landed before in Georgia under difficult weather condition.

All those time delays above are absurd, especially when many top level officials were in the airplane. This is definitely 9/11 of Poland.

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]

I am not a linguist, but, when I was searching the root of word God, I came across some websites mentioning Gawd, the old version of name God, in old Hebrew. So, Gawdzinski maybe something like Goddish? Perhaps, Gavdin from Iran too has the same root. Btw, this Gawd, in another form, Gada exists in Turkic too and widely used in local dialects rather than written language.

News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [859]


Some Poles, some other Poles. They already did in their reports. Plus, some small blames to Russians too. And, that's normal - Russians too accept it in their report.

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]


Maybe, nothing wrong. But, who'll be government? Some months ago, when Global United New Money was offered, UK rejected it for example. Without single one money valid globally, you know, world government idea is a useless idea.

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]


You saying this based on the richness of England? Or, beauty of island? (when there weren't borders, don't forget, the wealth distributions would be more homogeneous.)

UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]

never been to England and not planning to, either.. If there was no any border, if there was total travel freedom to everywhere, would anyone be living there in that island England?