History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

The Turks are a bridge culture, Eurasia, between West and East. -:)

Language / Polish sayings [236]

'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.'

Language / Short Polish<->English translations [1040]

Franku!!

'May this be the starlight of my love that e'er burns bright for thee and ne'er shall be extinguished.'

To moje tłumaczenie tego zdania. -:)

Language / Polish sayings [236]

Spać jak kamień. = to sleep like a log (lit.' stone')

Spity jak bela = Three sheets to the wind (very drunk)

Kraków nie był w jednym dniu zbudowano. = Rome (lit. Cracow)wasn't builtin day.

...are but a few off the stop of my head! -:)

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Yes, Bratwurst Boy, "Tuerk-Proll" is the name for it, and, surprise, it's spoken predominantly, although not exclusively, in and around the working-class districts of Berlin, such as Marzahn as well as in heavily Turkish neighborhoods like Kreuzberg, 'Istanbul an der Spree', 'Die kleine Turkei'....

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'The Germans seem.......'

......much the same as many white US liberal Democrats during the late '60's and early '70's who "loved Harry, Sidney and Sammy, hope ev'ry colored boy becomes a star. Just don't talk about Revolution! That's goin' a little bit too far. So loveme, love me, love me, I'm a liberal." (the late Phil Ochs --:) )

White people "love" black people........but not as neighbors. LOL

Now that's REALLY disingenuous,

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

"...if I WERE you...."

dzięki, Justyśiu!! Teraz zrozumiem, że musi być niedokonany ('rozmawiać' nie 'porozmawiać).

Sometimes, I translate from German into Polish, as you could probably tell. -:) LOL

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

How, pray tell, did we get from 'What do Poles think about Turks?' to 'Ethnic Cleansing in the Balkans'????!!

A bit of a stretch by anyone's imagination. Nie wyobrazam sobie, o to chodzi tutaj. Dyskusja będzie teraz głupa a myślę, że nie chcę dalej o tym!

I meant rather, ".......że nie chcę mówić dalej o temat!"

nie chcę dalej mówić o temat.

Sooner or later, I knew I'd get it right. -:)

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

No chance, Bratwurst Boy! -:) LOL

"I don't think that most Germans like Hitler...."

O-ho, would you be frightfully surprised. Hitler's legacy is a very mixed one in Germany and Austria. Sadly, many still haven't learned the tragic lessons of history as evidenced by the unrepenetant bigotry and outlandish illiteracy, indeed stupidity, right here in PF!!

Some of us will simply die blissfully ignorant. Perhaps a blessing for the rest of us!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Bratwurst Boy,

There you go again, lapsing into misused colloquialisms! D'you know the 'real' meaning of "tree hugger"?? It means an environmentalist, "ein Grufti", as you'd say it. Rather than trying to convert you into a "tree hugger", I'm simply trying to open your consciousness a little. If I were "ein Grufti", I'd be walking around in expensive sandals or Birkenstocks, wearing a beard and bathing irregularly. Is that your image of a tree hugger??? Oh, I pity you, sir (Not that you need either my pity or my approbation = Geltung.

'Course a recalcitrant (bockig, stur, unerziehbar) chap like yourself may, like the hardened criminal, be beyond all earthly help, at least all I could offer. You may never see the light.....unless you're looking for the switch, that is.

Good luck!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

LOL I meant better positive pr. -:)

I'm Jewish and of German heritage. I love the language to pieces (heck, I all but grew up with it!), enjoy the culture immensely, yet find myself often holding my nose as I slither past the layer of arrogance which seems to ooze out of the locals' pores when some non-descript Mediterranean type comes their way.

Some prejudices it seems simply never quite go away. Rather like being an African American in the deep South today. They're treated almost like anybody else.... on the surface. Yet, the 'oool South' ain't far beneath.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

.....Germans like everybody..... so long as they can feel culturally, intellectually, athletically, or especially technologically, superior. Come to think about it, maybe they're just plain tired of always being on top, that gets tiring. I'm sure they'd like to turn over the mantel of perfectionists numero uno to someone else. Morally superior? Naah, Germans aren't much into 'hypocritizing' about morality. The latter they, like most of Europe, are all too happy to leave to us Americans! -:) LOL Seems we can expound for endless hours abour brotherly love, except of course, once we need to practice it.

I guess Turkey and Turks need better pr. The US is the world capital of public relations (sorry, second only to Austria who was able to convince a gullible planet that Beethoven was really an Austrian and Hitler a German).

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Just as here in the States, The Turks and others like them, the Chinese, Vietnamese, Hispanics, even immigrant Bukharian Jews etc... will always continue to look especially attractive to business because they offer cheap labor. Old Darwinist-Capitalist slogan: Don't pay a cent for something, no matter how good, if you can get it for free (or close to free)!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

For whatsoever it's worth, I've always preferred Turkish over Greek cooking! Maybe this is due to my extensive experience with Turkish restaurants nearby where I live. Moussaka and Spanikopia, while often flavorful, seem heavier than Turkish dishes prepared with joghurt, goat's milk etc.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Puzzy,

I am such a person. Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'.....as we use in our native languages.....'

But don't tell us which they are, Southern. -:)-:) LOL Keep us guessing!

Actually, I'm not really a native German by birth, merely by extraction. I am though completely bilingual in both German and English. Polish? Well, still a life-long intermediate. (If even that. -:) )

'...English hegemony.....!'

Really?? Pity then that it isn't treated with greater respect, even by non-Anglists such as yourself/yourselves. English: The universal language of eternal misunderstanding. (...to be continued, the latter topic. I've oodles to say on it, as you could probably tell already.)

Cheers,

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

..and, Southern, you've forgotten my own favorite, 'lokum' or what we named 'Turkish Delight'!

Indeed, the Turks, much like the Slavs, have a much more flexible word order than English. Ashame that when writing in English, one should follow the stubbornly inflexible rules of a more fixed syntax than either Turkish or Common Slavic! -:)

Just a wee bit of advice.

I realize on the other hand that my errors in Polish are equally legion, and probably just as vexing.

Here's then to mutual learning!

We Germans also have a more open word placement than English:

-Meine Cousine wohnt in Magdeburg. My cousin lives in Magdeburg.)
-In Magdeburg wohnt meine Cousine. " " ".
-Wohnen tut meine Cousine in Magdeburg (.....arbeitet doch in einem Vorort)
The latter is correct, but considered by many DUDEN-grammarians as colloquial.

Each means the same thing, yet with only a nuanced difference.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Thanks, Southern!

'Turkish is the sweet baklava..." ??? Odd sentence structure. English isn't your mother tongue, I take it. I think you meant here 'Sweet baklava (no "the" article necessary) is Turkish.', no? In addition, I wasn't aware that there was any kind of baklava other than the sweet variety. Interesting. Well, one never stops learning. -:)

I notice other occasional word-order choices in your English which seem almost translated from some other language.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'Tavla', I believe is a Turkish contribution to what we call today 'the board game'. In parts of India it's also known as 'parcheesi', if my memory is correct (..which it usually is.. knock wood...Oh, come in!' LOL )

In England and the States it's called 'backgammon'.

PS
Who invented the telelscope? A Turk too, I think. Rats!!! Wrong again. It was a European, Galileo. (Always did confuse Germans with Turks. Or was he Spanish?)

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'May I borrow that joke?'

Bratwurst Boy, I wasn't joking. -:) LOL Furthermore, I never 'lend' my material. That'd be approx 100 euros please, OOOPS (old) złoty. Hmmm, with the current rate of exchange US dollar to euro...... eh- that;s about .50. Oh, and that's only minus interest (Zins). I've got to make something from the deal. Payment may be tendered (Zahlung geleistet) at any time (....so long as it's within 14 days.) Ciao time!

:)!!!!!!!!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

The spread (but not 'invention' of.... LOL) of coffee throughout Western Europe, the fez and glow-in-the-dark wallpaper... OOps, sorry! The last one was invented by the Czechs, I believe, apologies. -:)

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Southern,

The question remains: What is the meaning of 'civilized'? Again, the Nazis considered themselves the apex of a civilized society, but were they??? Of course, not. Subject closed.

The Turks never developed the technological know-how of many North American and Western Northern European nations. This, however, is not by dint of their lack of 'civilization'! Japan is considered a more advanced society than China, but in fact, Japan owes almost everything in its history to the Chinese, e.g. their very writing system. Feudal dictatorships have had varying effects upon culture. Japan flourished during the Edo period, yet languished during the Meiji Restoration in the mid-19th century. China was the inventor of paper, gunpowder etc., yet remained, to some extent remains, a third world country to this day.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

???? Meaning?

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'I cannot say the same for the Turks.'

If what the Nazis called 'civilization' is for whatever earthly reason, your cup of tea, you can keep it, thank you very much!!

A civilized society is a heck of a great deal more than merely daily sanitation, flush toilets, solid, dependable infrastructure and all the creature comforts afforded a push-button technology. The Nazis may have been 'civilized' by the latter definition, they were HARDLY 'enlightened'.

There can be little disagreement there.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Civilization?? One man's 'civilization' is another's barbarism. Hitler and the Nazis thought themselves the ultimate in Germanic world civilization. Von Ribbentrop even considered himself one of the 'Kulturdeutsche' (cultured Germans). Civilized??? The very thought begs the question.

Furthermore, let's distinguish between a 'civilized', 'cultured'/'cultivated' and 'enlightened' people. In addition, Southern, The Nazis took science, research and cinematography, for example to new, undreamed of heights....but to what end?

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

It is a fact that the state of Osman Turkey was superior even to the empires of Great Britain. When you assert that Turkey has done nothing for 500 years, you assert plain and simple nonsense! How do you measure your opposing standard of 'something'? Are you measuring against Western or Osman standards? While it is true that the state of Turkey's economy was for decades lagging far behind Germany, Britain or Scandinavia, don't forget either that all of Western Europe was not on an equal economic playing field. Take Ireland thirty years ago. It was the poorest nation in Western Europe and look at Ireland today; The Celtic Tiger.

As far as 'multi-culti' (spelled with a 'c' in English-:)LOL) arguments, I'm interested in how one might intelligently debate what I've said thus far. All I've heard is right-wing raving!!

I will confess though that immigration is still a most important issue in our society. Scapegoating one or more groups in frustration and anger however, is hardly the solution.

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

I think, in fact I know, we've veered far off the original topic of why are Turks the subject of such animosity throughout much of Europe today.

Actually, who hates period, hates all people. Bigotry knows no boundries of reason. Therefore, yes, who hates Turks also hates Greeks, black Africans, Gypsies, Jews etc... , all the convenient scapegoats of history.

The moral here: Hatred never stops with one group. That's the shameful part about it!!

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Jukrek,

Enlighten yourself! By the way, what precisely did you mean by 'Leave language'?? Are you translating from Polish? You may e-mail me privately at panlech31#yahoo, if it's easier. I appreciate that you all are so eager to polish your English skills!! -:) LOL

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

Guest!

Long prior to the Shoah, Hitler was known to have remarked to a close aide when asked if such an act as what we now call 'The Holocaust' would be permissable. His response: 'But who remembers Armenia?', i.e. the Turkish genocide of millions of Armenian Christians!!

One of our great short story writers William Saroyan, wrote lyrically, yet with pathos, about this time.

This is not a slight against Turkish culture or the Turkish people as a nation, merely a statement concerning an extremely horrible period on their history! I'm presently studying Turkish! I also love German and Polish, aware as I am of the horrendous anti-semitism, not to mention plain xenophobia, of both countries!

A parting thought: Do we as free people want to be saying to future generation: 'Who remembers Auschwitz'?

History / What do Poles think about Turks? [761]

'Just because he was Christian?'.....

And how about Jassir Arafat's continued war against Israel? Just because Israel is populated by Jews??

One wrongful act hardy justifies another.
Why do I bring up English knowledge when challenged? Simply because non-native speakers such as yourself commonly make mistakes in their attempt to impress English speakers with the calibre of their English.

Humility (skromność) is needed. Conversely, I'd hardly be so arrogantly self confident were I posting only in Polish.