History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Nathan:
great historian of the beginning of 20th century M. Hrushevskyj:

judging from his quote he was flying pig not historian, he should have found himself in the Guinness Book for putting so many lies in two sentences!

Polish occupation is a myth - as for Lwowskie and Podole is Polish land and if Ukrainian doesn't like that, they should move to |Ukraine !


yeah!

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


I know now that you are a complete moron, any arguments ?


Fake Ukrainian :)


Really ? Any prove?


kiss my back side - you plummeting fool!


you mean that your simpletons wherever they may be are better ? ups ! you are simpleton yourself !


Hey! let's assume that I have different views ! I see you cannot stand that !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


mature ? last defence of the incompetent ?

I'm relaxed ! both of you are funny Specimens :D

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


make definitive moral judgements.
Polish history was biased because of communist regime - soviet occupation !
So, books you could read but those books could lie about certain issues !


so what?


boo!


exactly my thought , and those events are recent and there no many unknown facts or issues!
What about events which occurred 60 year ago, and were distorted by 40 year of commie propaganda.
I hope that at last now you will get a gist of what I mean and my position - you cannot come and make judgement, who the hell you think you are Mahatma Gandhi ?

For me is a very arrogant position !


Mahatma Gandhi mu ass !:DDD
I-S

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


gee :D and you call yourself historian :D


and ? Poles should give them independence on the silver plater then give their very own lands to the equation ( why?) and then look as that independent country crumble under soviets aggression and internal strife - and then Poland is next shrunk and unable to defend herself - I guess we should expect some European country to help us gratuitously- say Germany and then they should give us some of their land to be fair!???

:DDDDDDDDD

I-S ( puzzle solved M-G is Martian !He/It/She has to be!)

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that tell you what? crystal ball ?I will call you fairy from now on....
reason for culmination you can guess without the doubt during intercourse - reason for mass murder are not that simple ! Next you are going to say that Jews deserved their fate????

I-S (teachers phew! I hope you don't teach history!?)

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


exactly what ??


what are you talking about ?some delusions ?

History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]


with you :)
not between themselves:)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


M-G either discus with me or do not discus but for goodness sake stop discussing about whatever you will be discussing with me or not - its madness !

I-S (madness)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


I wasn't talking about you, you are a bastard but you are knowledgeable bastard.


Point is that you believe that your viewpoint is better than my viewpoint , and you try to ram it down my throat!
When I baulk, you play victim!
Why do you think that about certain events you know better ? I don't know.
However I'm able to argue from Ukrainian point of view or Jewish point of view, but this modern idea has it faults - where is the truth ? Certainly not in the middle of extreme views.

Categorical and final opinion about one country historical events are not helped by your obvious reluctance to discus certain country;s history and present.
Also you seems to treat lightly Wolyn events, to the point of dismissing it altogether, so forgive me but ignoring facts is not included into the guise of different viewpoint.


Everybody do it or did it! Point is that we discuss many issues here, one thing is historical fact, and quite another its interpretation, and yet another its implications and reasons for it!

Even witnesses could differ in reporting the same fact - great example of it move Rashōmon.
However, I study"Lwow issue" from many angles and for some time and in here I present my conclusions, as for different points of view - there plenty but I have found not one, which is not extreme in itself - and any sane person will agree with me.

Again, let's not forget that we are on the Internet forum !

I-S (see)

History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]

not me :)

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


what are you babbling about ?
Of course I can put myself into Ukrainian place!
I have been studying this issue long and hard.
The conclusion:
Fact is that all the territories (where Ukrainians were living) doesn't means that should belong to Ukrainian state.
Specially as there is no other reason why Lwow should belong to Ukraine and when Ukrainians are such newcomers to nationhood.
As I said - in 1918 they were offered compromise but preferred war, when lost they found war fruits to be not to their testes.
However, Wolyn done it for good - you lost all moral right to said lands!
You claim it to be an Soviet act, maybe there were some NKVD agents but main bulk of criminals were Ukrainian Nazi - UPA!

Myth about long occupation by Poland is just that myth!

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Do you?
You are delusional if you think that you are better than me!


Point is that he is foreigner who read one maybe two books about the issue and then he comes here and make definitive moral judgements.

Most of these "facts" were fruit of communist propaganda.
How dare he ? How dare you?
Write a book about it - historical book then it something to be discussed - not some empty statements.
I think that Sobieski have some connection to Poland and want to settle some scores !


You do much more than that and you do it all the time if somebody firmly disagree with you. I don't care but you always make a big deal out of it ! Dubious standards again!?

Ziemowit
People like what? Who know the world and its ways ?
Who do not take a shit just because it comes from foreigner?
Who knows worth and value of polish traditions and history?
Who knows history of Poland a lot better than high school program?

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


flip, flap,

I see your gob is OK!

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Well, don't you agree with my attitude ? I agree that Poles and Ukrainians issues are no so imminent, nobody dies now !
In case of Israel people are killed daily - your moral compass is right !
However thread topic is about historical issues.


Oh no ! See, you were writing about something completely different - if you would put in the place of Israel and Palestinians name that of Poland and Ukrainians it would be a absolute gibberish, double Dutch and so on ..because it simply doesn't no fit, history, circumstances. So I realised that you are writing about something else - and bingo!

Fits like a skin !


Well, I'll grant you your wish if you are so afraid to discus issues but I'll comment nevertheless.


that not nice M-G but I understand the pressure you are undergoing - because of your Jewish origin everyone expect you to be smart, let me help you - shmondac is Jewish expression I believe.


Goodbye MareG, the greatesthypocriteIhaveeverknown, I like you nevertheless, believe it or not I have shed a tear, sad thing thought, enmity over historical issue, well ?!


thank you kindly, patients is a virtue seldom seen.


Well, what mofo means ? is that some kind of sophisticated insult ?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]

Well, M-G I wouldn't expect it from you. I cannot say that I agree with all of it but it is impressive.
However it has little to do with the thread topic.

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


you are sneaky fellow, nevertheless Lwów should belong to Poland and Wołyn massacre cannot be justified!

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


I'll tell you when you'll tell me about your ancestor !


What do you have against Police were your ancestors criminals ?
Never heard the song - She wore Blue uniform ?

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

@sobieski
lies and propaganda!
I bet your ancestor was commie and when he run away one day, he started to pretend to be somebody else !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Who ? what ? and where ?


this is old!Are you jealous? Don't worry Poles will do some ethic cleansing and we'll be even and bad ! what says you?


You were talking about informative thread and latter about blame, excuses and all !
Make up your mind!

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


find out yourself - you can do it !
For example the reason for it !
The role of the FF !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


I'm not - what? I'm not presenting Polish view? Says who Dutch ? speaking double Dutch again are you?


don't flatter yourself !


Well, I have no chance to point out bad sides on PF everyone (at last the strong bunch ) are jumping in quest to do it first!


Really? I didn't notice!Anyway is not only about Israel, for you Jews can never done or be wrong !


Its not about version is about interpretation - and unfortunately about facts!
I cannot bend when you get facts wrong !


OH? Well, maybe you are not able to discus - but is not fault of mine !!!
Is not that I say - no, no, no .....all the time as you would like to believe, anyway discussion is exchange of views not M-G talks and not the rest nods and admire !


don't be afraid !

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


kiss - kiss !

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


I'm not surprised! To make is simple - most stories about American Revolution are myths !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Sure, there were some short lived attempts of polonization, and I think it shouldn't have happened, however it doesn't change the crux of the matter - it was and should be Polish territory, everyone is welcome as long as they respect it !

Ukrainians didn't wanted compromise but all and more, so they got nothing.
They trusted arms to gain their goal - and their lost!
While Poland were under Nazi and Soviet occupation - they saw their chance and lost for ever chance to claim that justice is on their side !

All attempts on justification of Volyn is only the way of digging your own moral grave!
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Well, honest when it comes to the facts, also impartial but when it comes to interpretation I'm presenting Polish view - I do not pretend like you to be absolutely impartial and neutral !


Above could only flatter insecure ones and not that smart !


thank you !
From my throne of Summum Incredibility I salute you King of Double Standards with one finger salute :D

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


absolute ?no! I don't care to prove that point, nevertheless it was insulting (I mean treaty )
and infringement into independent state affairs.


absolutely not - you are not credible - you can cry about rights, justice, racism and humanism and all that but when it comes to Jews you are 100% side-taker - I don't think you should be giving moral or other advice to others!


You don't need to prove that to me, I wouldn't expect it! The readers on the other hand could have some doubts about your standing and credibility.

What does summum means ?
incredibility - really ? Why because I do not view the world your way?Now, that mighty intolerant !


OUN


String by which "old powers" could control or attempt to control "new" states - like Greece, Poland and others !


area - are you not familiar with this word?


correct !


political necessity - you as an Ukrainian know nothing about !
In 1918 you choose all and got nothing - but you have easer, you blame Poles !


doesn't matter it is side issue !


yeah ! American - Jews !


OH ? I'm sure if it was about Jews being victims, you wouldn't need any prove, would
you?!


Sometimes you should pause and think before you start flapping the big mug of yours,!

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


yeah Germans and Ukrainians - but the former had no state, previous statehood experiences and had no means or chance to existed as independent state - not enough educated people.

I guess they would be content to live as Germany dependent state.
Well, rebels get what they deserve you cannot expect for Poland to go along with their crazy claims ?


As long as they are loyal - see?


confusion as to what - that what their were and proud of it!


that is your interpretation is not good enough !


area they are living in ....there no such thing as their territory !


The treaty it was an insult to Poland, no other country (Germany) were bound by external rules !They can all shove it !
Nobody is doing something out of charity in politics - where were those "noble" country's when Poles needed them ?
Anyway they all France, Britain and USA had colonies at the time!
Treaty was work of German and Jewish lobby, because they were afraid of reprisals against those minority's by the Polish state or citizens - which itself is insulting !


sure, they are responsible for Volyn massacre! Did someone mentioned Jews ? not yet ? well you are slow today!
M-G that is precious ! Now you should condemn Israel to be credible !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


I don't give a darn what it remains you! It could for that mater reminds you your traumatic experiences in Shop Mall !
Gee! I have nothing personally against you but how stupid one can be and absolutely unaware of it!

Think - what is difference between Polish claims and Germans or Israel ?
Thing hard ! Be bright this time - or do not complain latter that Ironside is too harsh to you!

However I support Israel - they should crave a one territory( instead of patches) and give it to Palestinians , rest such incorporate into their state and be done with it - no more killing!


aperitif I would say before main meal !

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


good, it is Polish land - anybody can thrive there after they get this one right !
Ukrainians had and have problem with it - should had move to soviet Ukraine - much better I gather !


Are you talking about blame ? I thought you said is pure information value thread !?


Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists look it up !

After preliminary meetings in Berlin in 1927 and Prague in 1928, at the founding congress in Vienna in 1929 the veterans of the UVO and the student militants met in Vienna and united to form the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. Although most of its members were Galician youths, its first leader was Yevhen Konovalets and its leadership council, the Provid, was composed mostly of veterans and was based abroad.

the OUN accepted violence as a political tool against foreign and domestic enemies of their cause. Most of its activity was directed against Polish politicians and government representatives. Under the command of the Western Ukrainian Territorial Executive (established February 1929), the OUN carried out hundreds of acts of sabotage in Galicia and Volhynia, including a campaign of arson against Polish landowners (which helped provoke the 1930 Pacification), boycotts of state schools and Polish tobacco and liquor monopolies, dozens of expropriation attacks on government institutions to obtain funds for its activities, and some sixty assassinations.

The rest you can find !???

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


well, its not right thread isn't it?

But Founding Fathers - they role and real people behind mystical masks !
- oppression by the British
- reasons of the American Revolution
Generally misty down of the glorious republic !
there - have some ....


huh ? what does it mean ?

History / Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938 [289]


Well, many Ukrainians weren't loyal to the polish state, their terrorist organization killed minister and were responsible for :
O zamieszkach inspirowanych przez Ukraińców Józef Piłsudski, ówczesny premier, wypowiadał się następująco: „podpaleń, sabotaży, napadów, gwałtów w Małopolsce Wschodniej nie wolno traktować jak jakieś powstanie, unikać rozlewu krwi, natomiast stosować w razie dobrowolnego czy niedobrowolnego popierania zamętu przez ludność, represje polityczne, a gdzie to pomoże- kwaterunek wojskowy, ze wszystkimi ciężarami związanymi z nim. Sama obecność wojska uniemożliwi zamachowcom terroryzowanie ludności.

No, state can tolerate such a situation !

As to churches - it was seen as action to reverse results of many years of forcible removing of Polish culture and element by Russia .

Ukrainian terrorists were supported by German state.