Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


We're going in circles. What difference does it make easer, harder, an ax instead of gun. Where is a will there is a way.

On a whole you cannot justify guns restrictions by bringing in criminals. Criminals are criminals they don't worry about laws and rules or morals. Why anyone would make laws for law abiding citizen and worry about criminals - it doesn't make sense.

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Possibly, that could happen, that stand to logic. Want is more precious? What ranks higher - freedom or life?
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Probably because it is a very good argument. One that exposes lots of hot air about guns and cut to the chase.
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I disagree, trains, trams, buses, planes could be used instead. The only reason you would be rather using cars is a personal comfort.
It is easer to you to use a car, plus you are familiar, used to it. So you ignore dangers and risk or rather you take it as a part of a parcel.

Why? Because in your mind benefits of owning a car overweight risk that causes.
That is. There is no any other reason.
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That is what you believe in. I disagree. That is only your opinion and point of view. S one you're entitled to of course but no better or worse than other opinions on the matter. I would like to hear compelling arguments that support your opinion. :)

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Once you start making decisions for others, where would you stop?
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Benefit of leading your life in a considerable freedom. Benefit of having an option. Benefits of self-reliance....
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Fear doesn't go hand in hand with a reason.
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That wouldn't change. After all your changes are much greater to be killed in a traffic right now. I doubt that would change with guns around.

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It is logical reasoning but for it to make a compelling argument you would have to be consistent. Remember cars, reads, accidents? Ban cars, ban guns - completing argument. Guns - bad, cars - ok - no argument.

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Not long term.
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Nothing guarantee your safety. Having a gun even odds and gives you a standing change to defend yourself. Why would you begrudge people of chance to do that?

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Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Of course it is!
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Germany 1933? Does it ring a bell? Secession conventions, 1860. ? They don't? Are you really, really sure?
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"•A person in the US has better chances of being struck by lightning ( about 1 in 6,000) than of being shot by another person at any given moment. "

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I understand your point. I understood it the first time you used it. Yes, you're right. That could happen than more criminals would get an access to a gun if the number of guns in a country would increase significantly.

However that would be a negligible number most likely.
The point is - if someone want to commit a crime there is nothing you can do to stop them. I don't think that people who are killed with a knife, an axe, baseball bat or a gun care in the slights what tool had been used in causing their demise.

What more, freedom of majority cannot be circumvented, reduced due to action of few.
In other words, collective responsibility is not a very evolved concept and doesn't promote freedom of an individual.
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I think that US and Poland differ in that regard and gun crimes would never spin out of control in certain areas as it is in the USA.

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How many dead in road accidents would you consider too many? What number would make you think about banning cars?#

I think the real question here is - when dangers outweighs benefits? For me I guess it would be the same number people shot as those killed in traffic accidents. Then I would think that maybe something is not right. Fat chance of that happening bar a war.

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That is my proposal, drives need to pass a competency test as well as theoretical stuff, I think that something similar could be done with guns. Once you pass, you can buy.

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No one is safe, that is a common misconception, you can feel safe but in fact you're relatively safe.

So, in fact your anti-gun argument is based on a false assumption of security. Guns in the hands of your countrymen would make you feel unsafe. OK! I can understand that. Even though I think such a stance is based on feelings, not logic or reason.

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They don't have to have anything to do with guns.
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No, I don't! Your assumption is that guns are making a country more dangerous place. I think that the opposite is true.:~)
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Check!


Check!-----
I would rather be a self-relaying citizen with as many freedoms as possible. Rather than a safe 'peasant' relaying on others for my safety.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


So, if you cannot trust your fellow countrymen to carry guns abound. Why would you entrust them with the right to vote. That has much more direct impact on your life than some irresponsible or criminal dumbass caring a gun.

Maybe there should be selected and trusted group of people that not only would have the right to carry guns around but would also be the only ones with the right to vote.

Hey if you're elitist - I can understand your point of view. Otherwise not so much.
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That correlation is not proven. It is only an estimation. There're other countries than USA with guns at homes and without so many gun crimes.

Even if you were right. Lets assume that for a sake of discussion. Why would you penalize law abiding citizens for some what might happen or for some crime that would have been committed with a gun instead than with a knife?

Why one man misdeeds should negatively reflect on my rights, on my freedom, on my choices? Where is justice in that?>
After all I would rather have a gun to defend myself and my family than became victim of a crime. That someone somewhere would use surplus of arms in a country to break the law and commit a crime - that is not a sufficient excuse to curb my freedom. I have nothing to do with it.

IF we take your assumption that all citizens freedom should be sacrificed on the altar of a greater good. Let bring your logic to its natural conclusion. Institution of marriage is beneficial for a society, open relationships, single mothers, gay 'marriages' - not so much. They are creating inequalities, disturbance and lack of stability in a society and generally tends to brings standards down.

All that is allowed by the state in the name of freedom and personal choice. Why make an exception for guns? Either we sacrifice all freedoms for a great good or not!

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Kids are killed due to all kinds accident. People die in traffic accidents. Why not ban all cars and introduce a public transport that would be statistically safer.

No consistency here. People are ready to make all kind of allowances and excuses for cars. Yet they refuse to do the same for guns. Actually there is more people that die in car accidents than to guns. Significantly higher if we remove all that ghetto, gang related shootings.

It tells me that is not about victims or number of victims. Its about victims of shootings. So it burn down to anti-gun prejudices, fear or a fact that such a people don't believe in self-defense.

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Statistically it is not true.
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Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Why would there be a neighborhood with flying bullets? People would just go mad from Sunday to Monday, hey we got a GUN! Let shoot everyone. That crazy.

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Actually, a knife in close quarters is as deadly as a gun. Somehow people are not getting stabbed in busses or trams. Why would that change with a gun?

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I know what I have seen with my own eyes. Some people have guns stashed, don't know how common is that though.
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Even then. Its all your imagination. Anyway is not that simple even in the US. Depends on the state.
Also I don't advocate that anyone could buy a gun like a tomato.

I'm thinking about gun license that all adults could pass (except for criminals, mentally ill). Like a driving license, that would teach you to use a gun, care for it, about law and some training.. There even could be A, B, C categories of that license, one you could but guns to be kept on your property and in your car to transport it to shooting range. Other could give you right to carry it in public. C would be a license for professionals like police officers or military.

Sure the law would need to change. Like you can kill home invader and so forth.
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Why would they shoot at each other? They don't kill each other with axes or whatnot.
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Eh, would that be that stupid? could they afford guns? If then they would be shot dead, process of natural elimination, that would happen only once if at all.

You're building all these scenarios to scare yourself for no reason.
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Statics can be deceiving. There are areas in the USA that are much safer than Poland. What is skewing the picture are ghettos, large cities and so on. So all that violence is relative. You can experience more violence in a line to bus in Poland than in some of those towns in the USA.

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Because mentally ill people are wondering on the streets. Such people they are confined into a mental institutions, medicated in Poland. In the US they roam free. Alas those mass shooting happens in so called no gun areas. (gun-free zones)

Idea is no guns, no shootings, but that means that law abiding citizens are unarmed and criminals and nutters know about it.
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Where you got this idea from? Come and visit me in the Royal Palace in Warsaw.
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Some people, there are others that think differently.
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I'm not going to give instructions for an illegal activity. Please.
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Sure, have you been ever interested remotely in guns or anything military? Nay? So, why would you know?
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Soviets has to go!
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Did you even seen a gun with your own eyes? Not on TV. :)

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Chemikim, people are getting shot regardless. Criminals have guns and always will have them. Anyway being killed is being killed - doesn't really matter what has been used to do the deed. Its an irrational fear of guns.


They are facing that risk even now. The police is armed. Criminals are armed. A foreign security forces on the Polish soil are armed.
You are not suggesting that a normal people, upstanding citizens would turn overnight into crazed cold blood killers just because you would given them a gun? Are you? That is an irrational fear of guns and their magical potency, if I ever seen one.


From all enemies domestic and foreign. Being a republic Poland needs citizens that would stand up to uphold its principles.


You would have to ask. On the other hand if you're local and in a city, you have a certain idea where some illegal stuff can be bought.


Why would they tell you anything? Are you that naďve? That would be a closely guarded secret.


Yeah and by the guns magic power they would appear in Poland? Really?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


That really doesn't make sense.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


From enemies foreign and domestic.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


I should be able to purchase and take a gun to my home. As its perfectly legal in case of a car.


That is not the point. The point is I cannot buy one or keep it in my house without license.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


You don't need a driving license to buy a car. You need license to drive it on public road, if you drive it abound in your backyard you're good.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Why? To defend their town, village or a neighborhood in case of war or whatnot. That makes a lot of sense.


Really? Who are you to deny me right to buy what I want? Tyrant, upstart?


that is bad and needs to be changed.


Shouldn't have to grand permission for something that should be within your right. What is Polish passport? confirmation of the citizenship or identity card for peasants.


Generally they don't. That is what ROMB is complaining about, you can have all legal requirements fulfilled to a T, and some unelected Dick can refuse you (and does, more oft than not) that 'permit' on a whim or expecting a little brown envelop.

In fact power of discretion vested by law on bureaucracy is one of reasons that bureaucracy in Poland is inefficient, corrupt and redundant.


What are you about?>
Why would they invest money into something that wouldn't guarantee them return of their investments i.e. permit?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


A right - is a moral or a legal entitlement to have or do something. If you agree that people have a moral right to won a gun, why would you deny them that right to be realized on legal grounds?

Unless you think about a legal right in that case you're mistaken. They don't have that right. That is a privilege and on the top of it the law that exists at the moment is not legally binding. As it is completely within discretion of a commented of the local police to grand such a permit or not. Since commandant is not elected in a local election he doesn't give a rat's ass about what people (the local constituency) thinks about him.


Simple as that is that you have no clue. Enough said - why don't you go to ROMB webpage and see how that looks in reality.


To do what? Stop an offensive of few tanks division supported by air forces and boots on the ground? Of course not! Nobody claimed that.

As for a local defense forces, armed with a light weaponry, machine guns, MANPADS, .50 caliber, shoulder fired, semi-automatic sniper rifles, shoulder-launched anti-tank rockets and more, can make it impossible and too costly to keep and occupy conquered territory.

Lines of communion necessary to support and provisions those divisions would be extremely sensitive to such a local forces.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Well, about the same number of Poles thinks that homosexuality is not normal. Which is pretty high if you think about all those grand's and money that are being send from abroad including America to promote and impose different views and standing on the issue. Still, you think that is nothing wrong with people that would like to force pro-gay legislation on Poland - that hypocrisy.


Even if your estimate is correct that doesn't negate anything Johnny said. There IS an increase and people have a right to rise and awareness and to whippy up support, prepare a ground, educate people for such a legislation to be introduced in Poland at the later date.

There is no reason why people should be able to arm themselves if they wish to do so.


Those right equal no right at all. Unless you are cozy with a local commandant of the police.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]

Lyzko, in your case symptoms are typical for paranoid delusion coupled with victim mentality. Sure hope you're not medicated up to your eyeballs.

News / "A merciful heart can share its bread with the hungry and welcome refugees and migrants" Pope Francis [89]

"refugees and migrants"
Migrants is rather ambiguous what that even means without context. As for refugees - fair enough there is nothing new in this. Thing is, to be refugee one need to fulfill a certain conditions, those illegal immigrants from the middle east or God knows where from, do not met.


No, roots of all evil are stupid little, selfish people.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]



?


What's that?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


I have already asked you twice that very question that you have no answer for. Either answer it or be quiet.


What do you care? You're not even Jewish yourself. You're pretender.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


You're clearly trolling Lyzko. I'm not going to ask you again to explain a certain contradiction that belie your opinion about CC. You have no answer that's clear.

News / Anti-Defamation League want Macierewicz (Poland defense minister) appointment withdrawn - GW [42]

Well, he is right. On two counts, Rossati doesn't represents Poles and in the case of Kielce provocation.

It make no sense to talk about anti-Semitism. However I'm used to your usual drivel and I'll not ask.

UK, Ireland / Ireland and Poland - ways of struggling for independence [43]


Geez man let it go. What do you need it for?


In what world? Was it in a different dimension?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


Those who doesn't know what they're talking about, should keep their ignorant opinions to themselves.


Evidently they haven't learned on the mistakes from the past.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


I think you're the only one that see something that is not there. I'm anti-stupid and anti-BS. I keep asking you for facts not your opinion.

You're typical Bull-shter, I disagree with you therefore I must be some or other. In your mind that is.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


You clearly don't understand context and Christian sprit. I'm not a saint like JPII and I know that people like you given a chance would take all for nothing and demand more. From me you can get a finger! Come back when and if you learn something and when and if you'll cast off your ignorant prejudice, you xenophobic gnat. :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


You have no answer, that is the short and the long of it.
Perpetual victimhood and a sense of being wronged by the world might be interesting a case in study. However it doesn't strike me as an attitude that can form a solid foundation for any rational thought.

Most of what you presume or what you say in here is simply incorrect. Beside sojourns in your world that give us a glimpse of an unhinged mind. There no much else we can do for you.

While you're busy casting Catholic Church as a villain. I think that its appropriate to use certain caveats here.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. (In regard to some teaching on gentiles in Jewish religion)
You should first explain why is that that the Jewish people survived, until modern times,( and thrived) in Catholic countries? Mind you, nowhere else.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]

Are you trolling Lyzko?
I doubt that you have ever been in Poland. Came to think about it you might not even be Jewish.


They have been wondering why're you making such strange noises. Given your obvious inability to write a simple sentence correctly in that language.


Look at that. Isn't that strange that Jews haven't surveyed anywhere beside Catholic countries> until the modern times#? You're not very bright are you and you're communist as well, that clear.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


So you say but I'm waiting and waiting.
Unjustified generalization is all that you say and then some sly remarks. If you put Poland into the same category as Germany - that is not rational. If you talk about guilt in the context of Poland - that is not rational.


Don't be a dick.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


No, you failed to make your point. It is not my fault that you have nothing to say apart from a sly underhanded remarks that make no sense. Perhaps make perfect sense but only to you and your friends - prejudices.


If we're at this low point, from now on I'm going to call you my little Jewish schmuck who would do anything for money including extortion. Still you have no argument and no facts.


You're talking crap and you still have no facts or arguments to support your particular racist view on Poland and Poles. I think that lies and sander about Poles gives them bad name not actually anything they have done.


You're really dumb aren't you? I'm not blaming victims. It is who is doing just that by putting Poles who were as much victims as Jews in this war in the same category as those responsible for all that vile afoul stuff that had happened.


Are you one of these commies that throws ham inside Synagogues out of spite? You seems the type - opinionated, ignorant.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]

Sound to me like you are rationalizing as well as justifying a latent anti-Polish prejudices, hate amongst your brethren.


No, I don't understand. Poland is and was nothing like Germany or Lithuanian and that is the crux of the matter, your know nothing but your grandma tales. What more you refuse to learn.

Majority of so called Jews in Poland nowadays are soviets, commies and such or their progeny. I'm pretty certain that those few Jews left in Poland who have no ties to Soviet oppressive regime doesn't hate Poland or Poles.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


Sound to me that you have no facts and no case. Instead of learning about reality you prefer your own comfortable prejudices. I have asked you in the past to stop implying things and talk about facts. If pressed you're mumbling something about Jedwabne or anti-Semitism.

Do you think that anybody give a crap anymore? You have been overusing this word swigging your accusations left, right and center and it is not working anymore.

After all you're all white middle class racists that oppress a poor exploited black people. That is getting all, either you have some thing to support your opinion or that is your opinion. Opinions are like a-holes everybody has one.

What there is such a hate towards Poles from a large chunk of Jewish community in the USA? eh? Why all those lies and BS? Anti-Polish much?


Sure, as soon as they heard accusation, demands and BS.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]


You have a very specific vision of the Jewish in Poland. Look I understand that war and all colored it that way but if you look at the Jewish community in Poland in the 30'. They're not worse off that Jewish in the USA at the time and much better than in few other countries west of Poland. They have full citizenship and rights. they have been protected by the law. They have had their own organizations, parties and all and sundry, could cultivate their culture and religion without any state imposed barriers, could have study on Polish universities, a privilege granted to them in the early 60' in the USA.

Whatever happened during the war has nothing to do with general attitude of the Polish people. Cut the crap!


what they were looking for? Heartily welcome? People ought to be suspicious by then and after 40 years of soviet occupation nobody would have time for some spoiled westerners coming from the differed world.

Most people would have seen a Jew only on TV.

I would say that people in the early 90' were interested in the past and in the past shared with Jews to. However Defamation league and all those various attack mainly from the American Jews on Poles and their history changed that warm, welcoming and open attitude into - WTF? What are they going say about Poles again? If you hate us so much - F!OFF!

Study / Studying in Poznan for an Arab student. [25]

The real issue is that some people might take you for a Muslim but even that just common sense should suffice to avoid problems.