History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]


I wonder how his kind would react to a re-birth of Prussia....I guess he would then wish for the current Germany back....badly! :)

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]


What's that?

Off-Topic / Assasination attempt? Warning? Member of Hungarian PM Viktor Orban's police escort killed in Germany [15]

....and the german victim was just an accident?

Then the female driver of that car needs to be investigated....

Off-Topic / Assasination attempt? Warning? Member of Hungarian PM Viktor Orban's police escort killed in Germany [15]

Yeah....a german police officer, nice of you to remember him!

yahoo.com/news/german-policeman-dies-escorting-orb-193210479.html

....A German motorcycle police officer died and another was seriously injured when they were involved in an accident on Monday while escorting Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán to Stuttgart airport, police in the west German city reported.

.......

During the journey to the airport, the car of a 69-year-old woman collided with a motorcycle driven by a 61-year-old police officer. He was severely injured and died later in hospital.....

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  GQ5hZcEXkAAP4GF.jpg
  

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]

@Ironside

Let's try this...if Poland is smart and demands what it wants and needs it can be a good thing for Poland!

If that doesn't work either we can still re-build the inner-EU borders again....but something has to happen.

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]


Na ja...it's the EU....nothing there is "quick":

Google translation from that link:

...Next steps

Member States now have two years to put the laws adopted today into practice. The European Commission will shortly present a common implementation plan to support Member States in this process.....


....and this is it???

You preferred Poland to help illegals along through Poland till Germany?


A law like this!

Actually Germany was quite naive about this years back....actually it is an old law that newcomers need to be processed in the first EU-country they set foot in. German lawmakers thought Germany would be then totally in the fine....surrounded by other member states. Well...you know that this didn't work!

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]


....if I were Poland I would start writing a long list. It is agreed that the other member states support the external members, whose borders are breached be these people.

You can demand everything...money...even troops and other real help! That makes alot of sense and would explain why the outer EU countries like Poland agreed!


I guess that was the core of that agreement. To move them back into camps outside of the EU...near the first EU-border they breached...there their applications will be taken in and processed...and since most of them will be rejected the way to remove them won't be so complicated anymore as it is right now.

In my estimation that could be the first step to the "Festung Europa".....

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]


...that's the new plan in short!

(in English)

bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/eu-asylum-reform-2195634

....According to the new EU asylum reform , everyone must be strictly checked and registered at the EU's external borders. Anyone who has little chance of protection in the EU will have to go through a legal asylum procedure at the external borders and, if their application is rejected, will have to return from there. ...

As I understand it if the illegal comes from another "external border" than Poland he gets not send back to Poland....right?

....To counterbalance the current system, where a few Member States - namely those at the external borders - are responsible for the vast majority of asylum applications, a new solidarity mechanism will apply that is simple, predictable and workable.,,,,

What do you think, Iron?

That's more detailed (but only in German):

consilium.europa.eu/de/press/press-releases/2024/05/14/the-council-adopts-the-eu-s-pact-on-migration-and-asylum/

....Responsibility and solidarity

The new rules clarify which Member State will be responsible for an asylum application (e.g. in cases where a person has a family member in an EU country or when the asylum application is not made in the country where the asylum seeker first arrived in the EU).

Another important aspect of the reform of the migration system is the introduction of a solidarity mechanism to ensure a fairer allocation of responsibilities. The new rules combine mandatory solidarity to support Member States facing a large influx of migrants with flexibility in the type of contributions. Member States' contributions can take the form of relocation, financial contributions or, if agreed with the beneficiary Member State, alternative solidarity measures (e.g. provision of border guards or support in setting up reception centres).....

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]

Just found this:

x.com/visegrad24/status/1804533385576013962

Maybe Poland should invest in better borders now?

Less flooding in = less having to be send back?

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]

...I'm glad....the first step to a better border security for EU countries....what's not to like?

Either the current EU govs do something effective or the rising nationalist-rightist govs will do far worse!

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]


Do you mean the asylum reform?

consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-migration-policy/eu-migration-asylum-reform-pact/

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]


With what?

We just lost a war.....

News / France and Germany plan to flood Poland with illegal migrants. [95]

I guess that would be big news here.....and I thought France has not even a real gov anymore actually....

Do you have a link, Iron?

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [297]

We have footie EC in Germany right now!

Because of that all border controls got increased, more or less fortified....

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....maybe your wishes will come true in the next years anyhow....with the rising right parties gaining more power in Brussels....who knows what will happen.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....or maybe an example of "Realpolitik"?

Compared to the example I posted, with EU-elections and working in political groups in Brussels, how do you imagine PiS or PO or any other ruling party in Warsaw will work for polish interests OUTSIDE of the EU....more successfully that is?

That would really interest me....you must have an alternative in mind, yes? After a Polexit....

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


Hmmm.....interesting idea....but let's face it, we both have not really all the insights how Brussels works, right?

What I know is that the EU parliament is a good mirror of the politics in its member countries....means they are all there, nobody is clearly forced to stay out. You are eligible to get voted for in your home country, you are eligible for Brussels!

Then there are these fractions...groups with common ideas, and yes, also common interests are able and invited into fractions, where your party finds like minded politicions from across Europe....with the goal to support and strenghten each others cases!

After last sunday they look like this:



Polish parties are everywhere:

ECR - European Conservatives and Reformists Group 27

PiS Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (razem z Suwerenna Polska i Republikanie) 25
SP Sovereign Poland 1
SPZZ Solidarna Polska Zbigniewa Ziobro 1[/i]

EPP - Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) 16

PO Platforma Obywatelska 1
PSL (Coal. KE) Koalicja Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe 2
Ind. (Coal. KE) Independents 3

S&D - Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament 7

NW Nowa Lewica 5
SLD Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej - Unia Pracy 1
Ind. Independents 1

Renew Europe - Renew Europe Group 1

Polska 2050 Polska 2050 1

NI - Non-attached Members 1

Ind. Independents 1

results.elections.europa.eu/en/national-results/poland/2019-2024/outgoing-parliament/

So....first I would look which faction would be right for me and my party....there I would find surely people agreeing with me, and then the work begins...making plans, detailing, building a stable, legal proposal....looking for supporters in other fractions....making deals and compromises...."scratching other peoples backs so they will scratch mine"...the whole drill the same as at home...more or less!

You are not really alone, and not only one politician (from...say...Germany) decides over your wish to change something....you start with your politicial group and when you find enough support in other groups you will get the needed votes to make your proposal real, if not then not.

I'm not so sure how to make that system better, Iron...

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]

....na ja...it's all speculation now anyhow....lets wait and see....

The current attack from the outside (Russia) did put alot of life back into our unions, be it EU or NATO.....who would have thought of that before!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]

....in Germany it seems to be the other way around....immigration/asylum yes, when they are Europeans....that includes Ukrainians.

To many people from outside Europe make just to many problems...that gains them votes!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


But rivalries are predictable...it would for sure split Europe again into two camps...it's a human thing, like two local football clubs, tensions will be unavoidable!


It isn't meant for always....the current net recipients are expected to put in their share into the common pot, sooner or later.


Well...my guess is one will solve the other. With the rise of the far right the immigration issue will be tackled, they will make sure of that!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....wouldn't that end the main reasoning for its founding? Keeping the peace in Europe?

Two rivaling Unions in Europe is the main ingredient for bloc-building, including hostilities and in the end even war!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....if it's the natural advantages of the older members, especially the founding members....yeah, they exist. You must'n forget that East-Germans like me are closer to Poland and other Eastern-Block members than West-Germans.

Many things that happened to Poles happened also to East-Germans...there are reasons the AfD is that strong in the former GDR-Territory, but still...I wouldn't call that rigged.

Especially not in the EU councils, where everyone has the same vote. It just needs more time and experiences and work to catch up to nearly 40 years more time for connections and networkings, IMHO!


There is only one way to go....look for supporters, develop the needed legal things and bring that cases to the voting. If you can convince enough others it will go through...

I don't know how these procedures should/could be rigged or changed!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


You mean "my way or the highway"?

Super powers can maybe act like this....not middle sized countries. We need to work for it....search for support....build alliances....make compromises..... For us it's more like "if you scratch my back i'll scratch yours".

For that the EU is the best place available....all together, constant meetings....every country has the same vote. Without the EU nobody would even ask for your opinion!


That voting system is actually truly a topic for discussion! Important decision need unanimity. That means a country can veto decisions, hence blocking the whole process, like Hungary did with EU funds for Ukraine.

There are many voices who want to change that to majority voting.....

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


Many agreeable things you said....and I said before many, many Europeans see it the same way.

But a Polexit would not change anything, nor would a Dexit....as the Brexit has proven!

The EU is not an alien thing forced on us by some monarch or dictator, it is made up by it's member states. Even the far right speaks no longer of "...exits" but tries to win elections at home and builds support groups in Brussels to change the things from the inside....hence the importance of such things like the last european elections.

--------------------

Voting system
How does the Council vote?

Depending on the issue under discussion, the Council of the EU takes its decisions by:

simple majority (14 member states vote in favour)
qualified majority (55% of member states, representing at least 65% of the EU population, vote in favour)
unanimous vote (all votes are in favour)

----------------

consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/

Every member state has the same vote, one...be it Germany or be it Poland!

Poland could become a big player, if it tries and works for his interests from the ground up for supporters, networking and such....things are already changing, maybe slowly but surely!

I never knew what the PiS was doing in Brussels...they had years to move things there...did they actually achieve something at all? Do you have more infos on that?

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


Not for Germany.....it has been a shock for the establishment!

Far right parties have never made it in the two-digit zone before ..it was something german-specific, due our Nazi-past.


Yeah well...what do you expect? A revolution? A Putsch? It's the slow, sure way of democracy...fighting every election for the certain percents more which will give you power....

Not to mention Macron, who might see it differently, otherwise he wouldn't had called for new elections, risking his far right adversaries taking over Paris, very soon!


Okay Iron, what are your ideas?

You have a country, or two, which made the EU working for them....you have a country (you) which is kind of pissed and jealeous, because they feel left out. You had even a party ruling for a long time who embodied that feeling (PiS)....seemingly though even with all their political power and influence they couldn't change it for the better for Poland.

It's probably not working to demand from the members who use the EU for their advantages to give that up freely...

So, what would you do? How would a Poland look like which you would agree with....what exactly would need to be changed? Just blaming Germany all the time is not getting you anywhere!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]

wrong thread:)

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....it's rather a "I don't care!"

And why should they if all is perceived running well? Most people are not naturally interested in politics, only want to be left alone, living their lives....


Thing is it didn't start that big...it has been building up over many years...the turning point, where it becomes to much/to many, is different for many people.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


.....probably feeling no symptoms?

Leftism/Wokism is only something if all runs well....if people feel good, or at least not threatened by this crisis or another....it's only human!

People are learning that in a crisis, when they need to pull together, it's back to nationalism...to the common roots....


?

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


.....I would say the contrary is happening! Did you follow the last european elections?

The nationalist parties gained nearly everywhere, also in Germany!

In Germany the AfD would be your party, but I don't know how a nationalist german party would make things better for Poland in the EU?

And also....the EU is not a Germany-only game but with many players....to blame it all on Germany alone leaves everybody else in a sweet, flawless spot, doesn't it!

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [412]


....no....that conclusion of yours....would "agreeable" have been a better choice of words?

I can't help it but it surely seems that this "Europa über alles" has been a kind of a sham....but then....it delivered for Germans for decades....