News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Poles weren't murdered in Israel, were they? Yet Jews were murdered in Poland. The families and survivors of Auschwitz wound up where?? In Palestine aka modern Israel.

Guess, Netanyahu and Ambassador Azari see some connection there.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

@Dirk,
The Israelis might well be as misguided as they Poles in this respect, or even the Nazis! In poetry, we do speak of "foreign blood" (The Marseilleise, for example), yet we know in reality that such doesn't, cannot exist....if you believe in science:-)))

As to why the Jews kept getting thrown out again and again from most European countries has as much to do with Catholic dogma concerning alleged Christ killers as anything else.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Blood knows no nationality or the like, someone ought to have reminded Hitler......and Archie Bunker when he went in for a transfusionLOL

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Perhaps as an American, I see matters differently, but to be for example Polish, German, French etc. in the end means to feel, speak, act Polish, German or French in one's heart, despite the superficial differences between ethnic as compared with "naturalized" minorities.

Tell a Polish Jew who considered themselves lucky enough to be considered for the army etc. that they're not as Polish as a Christian Slav who never had to overcome the disadvantages of prejudice!

Tell a Black American who was a Tuskeegee airman that the color of his skin makes him less of an American than a white man.....I dare ya!!!

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Polish Jews most certainly ARE Poles, as are American Jews Americans (inspite of the tricky nomenclature of being associated with an essentially immigrant nation vs. one homogeneous nationality, I'll grant you), German Jews Germans etc..

The artificial distinctions of race vs. nationality vs. religion cannot deprive any citizen from their legal birthright to be counted as belonging to the country of their birth.

While it is true that the bulk of Polish Jewry once resided in shtettls, spoke exclusively Yiddish, not Polsh or even German, and were culturally isolated from their gentile neighbors (not by the former's consent, I might add), a large number became great contributors to the majority Polish society such as Julian Tuwim, Tadeusz Roziewicz etc., writing in a Polish which continues to set standards even to this this day.

It would therefore be a grave injustice to those Poles to associate the "average" Polish Jew of today with some Isaac Bashevis Singer characters of a bygone era!

Life / Why are Polish people so strange & unusual? [51]

Israel is naturally reluctant to admit the fact that Germany alone planned and executed the Holocaust, since much of Israel's technology depnends on Germany, and not Poland:-)

Kinda smells, don't it!

Life / Why are Polish people so strange & unusual? [51]

There I couldn't agree with you more, Dougpol1! Then again, the Poles have only themselves to blame, as I've said once before, re-electing the same party which nearly destroyed their country during part of the '90's!

But let's don't be too hard on 'em. It hurts like Hell, I'm sure, to be constantly maligned by others.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Fair enough, TheOther. I take your point.

Life / Why are Polish people so strange & unusual? [51]

Knownaim,

My experience, both all too briefly in Poland, as well as with Polish people here in the States over many, many years, is that Polish hospitality is unrivaled among Europeans whom I've enountered during my travels!

As far as some of what I've read which you experienced, I must beg to differ sharply. Poles as a group are certainly not slower or faster than any other peoples; they can though be quite intense as concerns both their own history along with their place in the world. They are indeed sensitive to stereotyped misconceptions about themselves and if they perceive they are being made fun of or condescended to in any way, their feelers go up like a bird dog, and they will usually respond by looking you straight in the eye, above all, honestly, truthfully, and sometimes even, not so diplomatically.

At present, they have a lot on their plate, in addition to being unfairly made to feel as though the Nazi Holocaust was somehow their "fault".

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]

Let's hope you will be:-)

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]

The Celts were to be sure to be found all throughout Central Europe, merging with both the Germanic and the Slavic nations, as we both know:-)

As to their origins, there are numerous theories yet to be historically substantiated.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

I couldn't agree more, dolno.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Only in post -War Poland (also Romania), were Jews punished simply because they were Jews. Even in post-War Germany, Hungary, and Austria, there is nothing to equate with Kielce, sorry.

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]

Impossible because you are a Slav, that's all. If you were a Celt, like Dr, Cahill from Ireland, you'd claim the Irish saved civilization etc.

Come off it, Crow!

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Amen, delph! Spot on.

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]

@Crow, is it not possible that maybe the reverse is true, that all Slavs have more than a little German in them, more that is, than many might care to admit?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

@TheOther,

So now you even doubt Wiki, eh? I know very well what I read, namely, that old man Gabriel (Sigmar's dad) WAS a Nazi sympathizer. Clear enough for you?

Furthermore, what's self-flagelatory about coming clean about one's familiy's Nazi ties, however faded, however distant?

According to a book put out during the 90's, I believe, ("Papa, hast du's getan?: Taeterkinder sprechen" = Did you really do that, dad? The children of Nazi

criminals speak), the past is still very present in German society, literary excursions into "American-style" adventure fiction notwithstanding!

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Gabriel's right, and exhibits considerable sensitivity to the entire Israeli dynamic as well. Maybe the well-documented fact that his father in particular was an unabashed Nazi sympathizer might have something to do with his thoughtful stance:-)

History / Lusatian-Sarmatic obsession of Poles [153]

Try General von Steuben in the US (...before it became the United States of America)! The Prussian fought shoulder to shoulder with General Washington, plus, it was yet another German, Emanuel Leutze, whose painting of Washington crossing the Delaware prior to reaching Valley Forge, which remains one of the most indelible images in all of US history to this day. And there's always the former printer John Peter Zenger who was the first to openly champion freedom of speech in the colonies.

:-)

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Yes, that's right, Frapol.

What I've read of Wilczek, he's quite accomplished and has authored any number of academic historical texts in both Polish as well as English!

It's all a question really of accurate nomenclature and the fact is that "POLISH" death camps is inaccurate, therefore misleading.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Poland's Ambassador to the US, Piotr Wilczek, wrote a strongly-worded, forceful op-ed piece in today's NYT in which he vehemently protests claims of Polish complicity in the Holocaust, placing blame squarely on Nazi Germany.

Figured you might be interested in it. You can of course always read it on line.

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Of course, Dirk!

Nobody's saying that English is even the primary tongue when talking with the average people in the street, and this surprisingly includes countries such as Sweden or Denmark, where English has been taught in school as a compulsory subject for more than half-a-century:-) At the upper echelons though, whether its in Lithuania, Germany, Iceland, Spain, Italy or France etc. it's a fact that a generally respectable level of English will be widely understood.

The thing is that in order to truly understand what one's interlocutor is actually trying to say, English ALONE simply won't cut it in most instances. The reasons for this naturally are too involved, not to mention numerous, to go into now or on this thread.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Whole problem with the phrase "Polish Death Camps" is that it falsely (if unintentionally) misrepresents the facts, namely, that they were not "Polish", but in actuality, German death camps which merely stood on what is nowadays Polish soil.

This oughtn't be that difficult to grasp now, should it?

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Granted, if I as a Polish employer for instance looked at some Norwegian univ. grad's cv and he claimed to know Polish backwards, forwards, inside-out, whereas his/her IT or company skills were lacking, (and the job description were : IT SPECIALIST SOUGHT FOR POLISH START UP FIRM IN NOWY SACZ), obviously I wouldn't hire the person.

Nonetheless, it would certainly be a definite plus if that person spoke fluent Polish in addition. I'd make a business decision most likely and tell the chap that his Internet knowledge is so good that I'd overlook the candidate/applicant's lack of Polish skills...under the proviso that the candidate work with an on-staff bilingual Polish-English, or whatever software engineer to smooth out any language problems, if there were any, and everything would be just hunky-dory!

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

I agree here. The Death Camps were physically located in what is now Poland, yet they were manned, that is, run, and conceived by, Germans. NOT Poles!

In addition, the area where they were erected was considered Deutsches Reich, and not independent Polish territory.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Precisely! Let's be exact. There were "KZs" or "Concentration Camps" for numerous others, not exclusively Jews at all, used to warehouse, and of course kill or torture, millions of prisoners for the duration of the War. There were "Vernichtungslager" or "Extermination Camps", known in the vernacular as "Death Camps" or "Todeslager" whose sole purpose was the physical elimination of "undesirables", primarily (though not only) Jews, as well as homosexuals, not necessarily Jews, Sinti-Roma as well as the mentally or terminally ill. Finally, there were "Sammellager" or "Internment Camps" where so-called "Enemies of the Reich" along with other miscellaneous foreign prisoners, were housed during the War.

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

@kaprys,

What you stated about the US is at least one of the main reasons why most of the country voted for the Man in the Red Tie:-)

The double standard is so apparent, it seems, to everyone but you.

Once at the UN-school in New York where I was teaching English and German, the owner came to me one morning and asked if I could replace the surplus of German classes with English (twice the load, at twice the money!!), as apparently the native-born head teacher of the German Sector was bothered by my "American accent". While not disturbing the content of instruction in any way, I pointed out to our esteemed principal that Frau Hagedorn, let's call her, had a noticable German accent as an English teacher, and yet nobody was said to have objectedLOL Tart as my retort undoubtedly was, I remained in their employ and even got a raise (though not for German).

Moral of the story; American accents are bothersome, amusing to say the least, in a foreign language, whereas foreign accents in English are "cool", "elegant", and "desirable".

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

The sole point is that, while finding a job in any country, obviously not only Poland, can be accomplished without knowing the target language of the country, the effort is more rewarding than merely relying on the other person's knowledge of English.

It's rather like being a babe in the woods. As an innocent, people can take that much more advantage of you, that's all.

When I was in Poland, people didn't expect me to know Polish and so in a shop, the shop owner felt he might overcharge or claim I misunderstood the wording on the sale tag. When I proved he was not being quite honest, the owner was quite surprised, rather embarrassed, and gave me the merchandise for free.

A small example, but proves my point once again that knowing at least the basics of the language can facilitate daily life immeasurably:-)

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

We all still appear to be missing the key point, put another way, we're not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's easy to be wise acres and contrarians by playing the Devil's advocate even though I'm clearly right here, it's harder to fess up to the plain fact that for any variety of reasons, the standards for English have been watered down to the point of unrecognizability.

Were the average European university grad honest about their English skills, that they're practicing it and therefore enjoy speaking it (although obviously an educated native Anglophone can do it better) simply to look good in public, I'd have no problem. There'd be no pretense involved, and the playing field would be level, fair, and workable.

Plain fact is that for a foreigner in Europe, be it Poland, Germany or what have you, target language knowledge would seem a must! Excellent math or IT skills don't necessarily equate to commensurate English skill. A no brainer, that's all!

@TheOther,

:-))

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

The goal is not poetry, but the nuances of English, for that matter, any extant language spoken. Where once, firms used native speakers of those languages to communicate with international, foreign-speaking clients, today, we are reliant far too frequently on the less than sufficient English of non-native Englisn speakers, far too quick to rationalize their less than perfect English on the fact that the client probably won't know or care about the difference.

We've become tone deaf to idiom and are in danger of losing the humor and melody which makes English so special to us Anglophiles.

There's no need to be sarcastic, kaprys. I never once contended that I spoke German BETTER than a native-born German and so forth.
However, the thread is about finding a job in Poland without necessarily knowing Polish. My reply is that the ideal candidate should make it their business to know both languages... or simply stay home. They thus can save themselves a lot of grief, and money!