History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Poloniusz
The amount of Hebrews in Europe at the time was so minuscule that it was fairly easy for the German government to track every single one of them basically. Not only that, few of them were organized or even remotely concerned or interested in Poland unless the country they were living in stated something about it. Their main concern was fitting in and created any attention about themselves, especially in 1934-1945 German controlled areas. Then it was the priority of building Israel.

Anyone being able to share any opinion about anything about Poland, it was the Hebrew diaspora in U.S.A and at the time it had been heavily invested in creating tensions with Poland for the sake of making Polish Hebrews leave Poland and build Israel. So a lot of efforts were made to portray every possible incident between Poles and Hebrews to be worse then it actually was to increase number of emigrees to Israel (which they wanted to settle and build)

A good example was the Polish police harshly handling an illegal gathering of Orthodox Hebrews in 1920's Poland. (It was wartime and public gatherings were strictly reduced, as to counter communist activities)

After that incident it was blown all over the world about Poland performing a "pogrom" on Hebrews. Soon after American public after being strongly in favor of supporting the creation of Poland withdrew their support towards Poland and isolated herself from Europe.

Poland was basically seen as a smaller version of a Russian Tsarist-state by everyone not being Polish after that.

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Novichok
Cause he is a human being, and I shall see him as one. As long as he wishes to talk (in this case write) I will treat him as one.

Love is the choice I made, even for those who consider me their enemies. As long as they don't force me to shoot at them, I will chose dialogue

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Not allways, I remember seeing an documentary of U.S polarization. There was a lot more cross party co-operation in the U.S congress in the past.

Now, especially with the Trump impeachment it's quite easily spotted. Faction vs faction, few acting for the best of the country, easily pushed to the side. Extremist views growing etc, branding an opposing side an extreme version of the opponent their meet etc

Thankfully, Germany is now more democratically operating then ever. Trading and co-operating with her neighbors, not having to fear invasion from neither France or Poland.

Austria reduced to a minor state, and only state that has any potential to endanger Poland is the Russian Federation, the most democratically governed form of Russia in history. So Poland's greatest goal is to reduce Russia's willingness to invade states in general (especially Poland) and create as much communication and contact with everyday Russians, trade and share culture.

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
In an ideal, loving peaceful world yes. But with the polarization in the U.S it's quite difficoult. A lot of journalists will use this for sensationalism and politicians for political coin in their own country. Poland has very few allies abroad, and a lot of issues to solve. Thankfully less then in 1918 or 1989, still a lot to do

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Cause for many (on this forum to) is to prove/show ones loyalty&allegiance. Especially in a situation seen as an attack. What you see as lawful criticism , many Poles see as political subterfuge. Which is why it should be discussed internally, you even imagining Poland capable of such sinister governance creates hostility from the get go. Because your taking a relativistic stance on this

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Novichok
Poland got nothing to hide, they can try all day. Even if I have to show a naked chest.

Again @jon357
We are talking about Poland's dark past. Not that of a few individuals. We are not talking about a few individuals who happened to be born and learned Polish growing up on the geographical territory of Poland. Show me, name me political parties collaborating with Nazi-Germany, list of SS troops. Underground movements fighting on Germans side. Go on

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Which darker past are you thinking about?

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Poland has never had as large a population as it has now, it's part of a Union of European nations. Part of NATO.

Politically there is a lot of catching up, it's improving day by day. The hardships have been at a great cost, which only makes it harder to give up.

Freedom for all of humanity must go on, never lose hope

@Novichok
I have experienced it plenty of times, no need for me to imagine conflicts I have experienced before

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Novichok
Which is why our watch is everlasting, watching out for twisters and their motivations. Standing our ground, not giving an inch away. Fighting at every possible doorstep, with every tool at our disposal. No matter the pain or suffering, our honor and duty remains. So help us God

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Novichok
As long as there are immature kids wanting to rile up hatches, perceived to have been buried it will continue. Poland has good enough relations with Israel at the moment, it only remains to better relations with Hebrew diaspora in other parts of the world. If not, it will just continue endlessly.

And yes, I wish Poland was able to defend all her citizens in 1939. That failure is hard to blame on Poland alone, yet not withstanding The Polish state has a duty to all her citizens. I will grief every time thinking about it, no matter how much hate I will hear from anyone about Poland lost battle in 1939. It is one of many things that drive me, improve, overcome and do better

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
The national image you speak of: Polish martyrdom

Can hardly be challenged in Poland (No matter which political side it is) as it's one of the few unifying factors among us Poles. Many a times people complain over being individualistic and not group minded enough (compared to the west, with a well functioning state, clean roads/pavements etc) which "activates" during a crisis like military invasion, national tragedy etc.

So that is a battle one can't possibly challenge, without battling it heavily. And at the slightest hint of arguments that were repeated by occupying powers. The argument becomes invalid, no matter the goal, feelings or logic.

It's simply a halt

Which is why it needs to be discussed internally first, otherwise it will only be seen as an attack

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Lyzko
Yeah, and there was no place for any honest good historical debate in Poland since 1939... Since 1945 it has been basically impossible and used as a propaganda tool to legitimize the communist authorities right to rule Poland.

So later on it almost became a sport to win historical arguments or a way to show opposition to the ruling party simply by disagreeing. Facts or not.

This tradition has continued on to this day among many Poles. Trying to do it as best as possible is quite hard when people from the outside not understanding this take sides without knowing it

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
I have no illusions of PiS's authoritarian tendencies, only problem is that it hasn't been solved internally but been heavily pushed internationally. Giving PiS basically freebies to score political points among those who are most interested in Polish sovereignty.

Instead of having an historical debate

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Ironside
Same with Gross, he published books about Poland which could been readable but, no sensationalism.

It is a pity they are dragging Poland down the mud for profits sake. I sense they could gone bitter over the years, writing and not earning as much as they hoped they would. Bitterness is quite dangerous (talking from own experience)

@Strzelec35
I am in a good mood today, I'll forgive you for badmouthing me. I'll start replying back to you

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation [1756]


You Idiot! Or maybe perhaps more like "Numnut!"

Where two are fighting, there the third gains

History / Poland's borders throughout history [25]

@jon357
Languages being different, with different buildup it's no wonder places are called differently. Some states Even used it as a political statement to underline who is in control of the area.

Lwów being a perfect example with Lviv and Lemberg throughout history. Even tho I must say the Austrian were a bit sloppy Löwe or Löwenstadt would be more fitting

History / Poland's borders throughout history [25]

@Lyzko
Germans also refer to Warsaw as Warschau... and?

As long as Germany doesn't demand Poland's western cities to be named in German manner domestically (in Poland) or internationally it has little to say.

Germans had a lot of trade and contact with Poles, it's not surprising they have their own version of city-names of Polish cities. Just like Poland has for German cities.

For instance oddly enough the Norwegian language uses either German, Latinized or Polish version of those same cities depending on the time period. But Warsaw is allways: "Warszawa" it's basically spelled as if written Varsjava in Norwegian. But as Norway has had little contact with Poland throughout history most oftenly use the country's version of the name.

@dolmoslask
What kind of nonsense you writing about?

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@Poloniusz
Is it that important to name all people? You know it's just a way of branding somebody (wether it's accurate or not is irrelevant) "He belongs with those guys! He is like THAT!"

I am able to read any source without major influence from the source unless it's relevant.

History / Poland's borders throughout history [25]

So you would say that most of the areas and borders of "The grand Duchy of Lithuania" was the most volatile throughout Poland's history?

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

Hopefully most of Poland's academia (especially those connected with PiS) are able to speak about the downside of censoring historians. It will have a far more powerful impact.

Never heard of this Timothy chap, where can I read about it? Is it paid services? What newspaper? (Haven't been reading much newspapers lately, a lot of bureaucratic work to do)

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Your taking up that topic on an U.S based forum in the English language. We have to expect American opinion about it either we like it or not. We are guests here on this forum. Either we like it or not

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
I thought you knew,

All Poles and Jews who were able to escape Poland during partitions, after ww1 and ww2 basically transported their hostile conflicts and relations with each other to U.S.A...

So any conflicts between Jews and Poles before ww2 lived and lives on in the U.S today. And it got nothing to do with Nazi Germany, they know perfectly well how to rile each other up. Most American tv shows show it quite easily, "Big Bang Theory" for example shows it with the character Howard and his Fiancée where he has a hard time connecting with his father in law in anything, world view, sports etc.

History / Poland's borders throughout history [25]

Interesting
I didn't know about the financial dealings with with counties in Pomerania. Can you broaden it out for us? Take your time of course. Would love to read about it and your opinion on it

History / Poland's borders throughout history [25]

@Poloniusz
You thinking about Russia as a whole (including the Muscovite state?) or Tsarist Russia? Or geographically speaking.

I want to be specific as Kiev Rus and Grand Duchy of Poland were quite stable border with Poland (crown lands of Poland) in the east until the partitions. Or you thinking about the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as Poland?

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Don't you know about Poloniusz's stance on Hollywood and their war on Poland? He is very allergic when it comes to matters such as these, an inner American conflict between American Jews and American Polonia. You are just riling him up right now.

I understand your concern in the matter, but for the Members of that fringe group to learn something they need access to Polish history. It's precisely their lack of knowledge on the matter that they are a fringe in the first place. I would be genuinely surprised if IPN started to organize political rallies for that group. It would mean loss of political support for PiS, scrutiny filled campaign in the media and a scandal.

Poland's nr 1 enemy in the 20th century were Nazis&Communists.

I much prefer hooligans and their ilk to read books and talk then go around the streets beating up imaginary enemies

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
Hopefully he will work overtime and have less time for rallies in the future

History / Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression? [447]

@jon357
I would simply check the sources of anything published by the IPN in Wrocław, maybe three times just to be sure.

Both you and @Poloniusz are right
The hand in the air salute is typically recognized as a Nazi greeting. That is because the Nazi's copied everything they could from Italian Fascists (They wanted to rebuild the Roman Empire... The horror) which indeed is where this salute comes from.

This guy in the picture might have the same perspective as Poloniusz adds, more likely he probably counts it as a fascist salute and not a Nazi salute.

Anyhow I would have argued with him that anything performed by the Nazi's&communists is open for scrutiny as something to fight so it doesn't see everyday light. One of them is this salute (Poloniusz if it's a Roman greeting, it's even worse)

Many people, just like that ONR guy probably thinks in terms of only left-right and that the most extreme is communism vs nazism. Which is only true if one is a socialist, there are several other ideologies which are less based on being a collection of people but, as individuals. Which fascists/Nazi's saw as a tool of their enemies etc (Liberalism, Capitalism, Monarchists etc)

I am not defending the guy here, I just think it's better that he talks with somebody then rots in jail. Why he was given that position? I have no clue

Life / Pączki Day--do Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme count? [39]

@Paulina
Thank you! I'll check them out! So far I have been by Carefour and must say I was impressed with Bio section

@Atch
Good to know!

Life / Pączki Day--do Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme count? [39]

@Atch
Thanks Atch! Who knows, maybe I'll meet some troublesome Irish lads during an excercise or something. Would make for a good story if they asked what that piece of paper is ;)

I got a notebook for recipes so I'll write it down no worries! Thanks for sharing!