The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 25

Poland's borders throughout history


Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #1
Poland has through most of history had changing borders. Which borders have changed the most and where? At which time? Are you able to answer? Have any of them been stable? At which period in time? Let the competition! Begin!

First out: Poland's border with "The Holy Roman Empire"
Poloniusz 4 | 365
13 Feb 2021 #2
Well, empires have risen and fallen.

Constituent countries of the various European empires have also morphed a lot.

Geographically, Poland's national borders with Russia have changed the most over the centuries with a lot of overlap and buffering from other countries in between.
OP Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #3
@Poloniusz
You thinking about Russia as a whole (including the Muscovite state?) or Tsarist Russia? Or geographically speaking.

I want to be specific as Kiev Rus and Grand Duchy of Poland were quite stable border with Poland (crown lands of Poland) in the east until the partitions. Or you thinking about the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as Poland?
Ironside 50 | 11,477
13 Feb 2021 #4
I don't memorize those things. As for stable borders I guess what you mean but I don't think it the right way of expressing it in English.

I know that the western border had been the same for a very long time, with a very few minor changes in Poland's favor. Since roughly 1380 to 1793.

In the 1500' Poland gained some part of the Opole dukedom thanks to the last duke John Opolski (from the Piast dynasty).
In 1454 Prussia become Polish, half of it become a part of Poland whilst the other part become its vassal state.

In the 1600 a few counties of Pomerania become a part of the Kingdom due to some financial dealings.

Lwow should belong to Poland there is not question about it as well as Podole. It would allowed Poland to reach into the Black Sea shores.

Also Smolensk has no right being in Russia. It is Polish border city.
OP Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #5
Interesting
I didn't know about the financial dealings with with counties in Pomerania. Can you broaden it out for us? Take your time of course. Would love to read about it and your opinion on it
Poloniusz 4 | 365
13 Feb 2021 #6
@Mr Grunwald

That's the tricky thing.

The geo-political histories and boundaries have been extremely complex and ever changing while each have also had maintained a continuity of distinct ethno-linguistic identity.
OP Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #7
So you would say that most of the areas and borders of "The grand Duchy of Lithuania" was the most volatile throughout Poland's history?
Ironside 50 | 11,477
13 Feb 2021 #8
Can you broaden it out for us?

It about Lebark and Bytow. You can find it. I don't remember much except that their nobles decided to become Poles.
Lyzko 30 | 7,716
13 Feb 2021 #9
German atlases typically still refer to Polish cities by their "former" German names, Danzig rather than Gdansk etc.!
jon357 67 | 17,039
13 Feb 2021 #10
German atlases ... Danzig rather than Gdansk etc.!

And most American atlases probably say Warsaw rather than Warszawa.

Polish atlases say Londyn, Paryż, Rzym and Waszyngton.

As for the borders, the current ones are probably the best arrangement. There's good access to the coast, prime agricultural land and a large industrial belt.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,074
13 Feb 2021 #11
German names, Danzig rather than Gdansk etc.!

You only have to drive on the a4 motorway towards Poland and all the signs say Breslau then Wroclaw underneath, after all Poland started the war and stole German lands and Poles must always be reminded of this when driving home after a months work on minimum wage in Germany.
OP Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #12
@Lyzko
Germans also refer to Warsaw as Warschau... and?

As long as Germany doesn't demand Poland's western cities to be named in German manner domestically (in Poland) or internationally it has little to say.

Germans had a lot of trade and contact with Poles, it's not surprising they have their own version of city-names of Polish cities. Just like Poland has for German cities.

For instance oddly enough the Norwegian language uses either German, Latinized or Polish version of those same cities depending on the time period. But Warsaw is allways: "Warszawa" it's basically spelled as if written Varsjava in Norwegian. But as Norway has had little contact with Poland throughout history most oftenly use the country's version of the name.

@dolmoslask
What kind of nonsense you writing about?
jon357 67 | 17,039
13 Feb 2021 #13
Poland's western cities to be named in German manner

There are certainly a few irredentists in Germany (as there are in Poland over Grodno and Lwów) however they are few nd rarely taken seriously.

a4 motorway towards Poland and all the signs say Breslau then Wroclaw underneath,

Normal enough, given the location. The M4 in England has signs for Cardiff, with Caerdydd in smaller letters.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,074
13 Feb 2021 #14
The M4 in England has signs for Cardiff, with Caerdydd in smaller letters.

Not the quite the same thing, never mind
jon357 67 | 17,039
13 Feb 2021 #15
In terms of what people call things, it is similar enough. Poles refer to Lviv as Lwów as is their right.

Derry or Londonderry? Leipzig or Lipsk? Borders change (as Poland's have often enough) and linguistic heritage is a complex thing.
Lyzko 30 | 7,716
13 Feb 2021 #16
Before, Lwów was Lemberg.
OP Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
13 Feb 2021 #17
@jon357
Languages being different, with different buildup it's no wonder places are called differently. Some states Even used it as a political statement to underline who is in control of the area.

Lwów being a perfect example with Lviv and Lemberg throughout history. Even tho I must say the Austrian were a bit sloppy Löwe or Löwenstadt would be more fitting
Poloniusz 4 | 365
13 Feb 2021 #18
Before, Lwów was Lemberg.

Wrong!

The original name is Slavic: Львігород (Lwihorod / Lvihorod)
jon357 67 | 17,039
13 Feb 2021 #19
Lemberg.

That's the name when it was on the eastern fringe of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. For most of the Nineteenth Century it was of course Lemberg.
Poloniusz 4 | 365
13 Feb 2021 #20
Львігород (Lwihorod / Lvihorod)

Absolutely.

Named in honor of Leo, the eldest son of Daniel, King of Ruthenia, it was the capital of the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia from 1272 to 1349.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv
jon357 67 | 17,039
13 Feb 2021 #21
Some states Even used it as a political statement to underline who is in control of the area.

This has happened frequently in many periods and locations. Even in the UK, however many placenames there carry their origin in different polities and languages.

Name changes have happened of course in cities that are now Polish which had earlier names. Some close to the original, some less so.

Löwe or Löwenstadt would be more fitting

It derives apparently from the medieval German-language name Löwenberg.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
14 Feb 2021 #22
Some close to the original, some less so.

Yes, Słubice is a particular example. They had to go back hundreds of years to find a possible Slavic name which could be Polonised.
Lyzko 30 | 7,716
14 Feb 2021 #23
Slubice Ahemm, Zliwitz to you LOL
Ziemowit 13 | 4,441
15 Feb 2021 #24
A most bizzare shape of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth after it had lost its most south-eastern provinces to Turkey in 1672 (Treaty of Buczacz).

war- turkey
pawian 178 | 16,053
3 Apr 2021 #25
Which borders have changed the most and where?

Youtube offers a few animations which show the changing borders over centuries. In the 20th century we generally returned to the situation that existed in the 10th under Prince Mieszko I.





Home / History / Poland's borders throughout history
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.