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I know. But since we don't know the official conclusion made by the coroner that's all I can quote.


I'm sorry, Atch, but massive screw ups do happen in every country, even if in general, usually, the police and coroners are doing a good job. And we won't always know about such screw ups. We only know about this potential screw up, because the mother took it to the media. Not everyone has a parent who would have the balls and strength to do that, for example.


Really? How does jon357 seem to you then? :))) After all that crap he wrote about me? He didn't seem to be "disproportionately upset, almost hysterical" to you yesterday? Sorry, Atch, but I don't think you're being objective.

We had an argument with jon357 yesterday. As usual he's getting on my nerves with his attitude, that's all.


You should always secure the scene and the evidence if you don't know why someone died. So what are you talking about?

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And what is this supposed to mean?

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


How convenient.
Suicide was ruled out though.


According to you. According to the mother, Sandra's friends (so people who actually knew her), the detective and the reporter (who actually went there) and me - there does appear to be grounds for suspicion. So let us agree to disagree, OK?

I will post an update in this thread when or if there's going to be more info.

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No, actually there are more possibilities of conclusions (formerly called verdicts) like, for example:

- industrial diseases
- dependency on drugs or non-dependent abuse of drugs
- lack of care or self-neglect
- suicide
- lawful killing (formerly "justifiable homicide")

... and last but not least:

- open verdict (cause of death unknown or unstated)


Of course there is.


I'd say that it's defenitely more than just "slight".


I have the same impression.

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Jon357 is just being an obnoxious demagogue. He's trying to shut my mouth, but I'm not going to fall for that. Maybe he thinks I'm attacking his "home & country" lol even though I also criticised Polish police and society on this forum. He's weird like that.

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No, I didn't.


So according to you the mother is spreading "trash" about the death of her own daughter? Because I only wrote what she and the detective hired by her are saying.

Jon357, what you're trying to do now is honestly sickening. But you won't discourage me from writing about this case. You can post all kind of crap you want about me, but if I find out something more about Sandra's death I will write about it and you won't stop me. Especially considering that, as you wrote, there's nothing in English about this case.


No, you should be ashamed of yourself.


I can only guess that it was "natural causes" considering what the British police is saying, but clearly noone who knew Sandra is buying that. It doesn't look like the medical cause of her death was given.

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It doesn't look like he does.


No, they haven't been.


As it was already explained to you - coroner's "verdict" is that Sandra's "heart stopped beating". Are you satisfied with such "verdict"? Because I'm not and Sandra's mother clearly isn't satisfied either.


Why are you lying?

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No, I didn't start any argument. I shared the news and you chose to comment on my post. Which is fine, that's what forums are for, so stop whining.


It's on the basis of a few articles and Polsat News "Intervention" TV reportage (the reporter went to London). You can watch it here (it shows the video of neighbours finding the body):

interwencja.polsatnews.pl/reportaz/2024-05-06/tajemnicza-smierc-19-latki-w-londynie-polska-prokuratura-reaguje/


Without consequences? Now the whole of Poland knows about this case. If it turns out that the detective is lying/scamming a grieving mother for money he will be finished. Everybody will know.


Drop what? Discussing events concerning Polish citizens? I will definitely not stop. I will discuss whatever I want and you have no right to tell me what to do.

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No idea, it doesn't look like they said anything about it...

That's all there is written about the reaction of the British police:

"The representatives of the British police didn't agree to talk to 'Intervention' in front of a camera. According to them Sandra died from natural causes. The investigation therefore was discontinued."

That's one of the things that are strange to me, btw. It's literally the job of the police press officer to talk to the media (yes, including in front of cameras)... Isn't in the UK also like that? 🤨

According to the detective the police assumed from the start that Sandra died from natural causes and hence all the negligence. Which is another strange thing - did they just walk into the room, look at a dead girl lying on the couch and just assumed that she died of natural causes and so they didn't bother to secure evidence, DNA? What the hell? Do they have X-rays in their eyes and can perform instant autopsy? lol

I mean, the fact that they didn't do the swab in case she got raped is honestly shocking to me. That's like the basic thing, one of the first things you would do in such a case, imho. Mind-blowing...

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Why do you think that?
For example, in case of Rotherham scandal all kinds of services failed - the police, social services...

Btw, how likely it is for a woman to suffer a stroke during a gang rape? How often do you hear about such stuff? I only heard about one such case. But it happened.

So it may be such "freak" case - I wouldn't rule it out. You never know and that's why you should investigate properly.


Maf also just stated that no police force is perfect and overworked and understaffed and underfunded police force may want to "get it over with" and close the case.


I perfectly realise this. But the accusations of the mother and the detective concerning negligence by the police are serious. It's not just about coroner's report.

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But you and jon357 can jump to the conclusion about the mother?


As I already wrote it's not the only problem with this case, to put it mildly. Besides, the girl could get a heart attack during a rape. I remember a case of a woman who suffered a stroke during a gang rape (she survived).


Of course. I just wrote a post about what I read in press articles.


I didn't start this, jon357 did and you continue. I only shared the news.

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The whole quote from Polsat News:

polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2024-05-06/interwencja-smierc-19-latki-w-londynie-polska-prokuratura-reaguje

"Coroner wrote in his report that Sandra's heart simply stopped beating - he didn't determine why.

- This is impossible. She danced for many years and every six months she had to do exercise ECG. Everything was OK, the heart was healthy and she could continue to exercise. This is a scandal in the British police, I couldn't imagine how you could do nothing in such a case. One flatmate said that the other flatmate also left the flat on December 17. But one of the neighbours saw that boy on December 20 using the computer. Here, in this flat - Ewa assesses."

(According to coroner's report Sandra died on December 17-18 and her body was found on December 23).

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


Sorry, I meant that this evidence should be investigated no matter if she had a boyfriend or not.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


It was her friend who said that she had no boyfriend at that time, not her mother. And anyway, this should be investigated whether she had a boyfriend or not.


It may also be that the British police did a bad job.


Yes:

"Koroner w raporcie napisał, że serce Sandry po prostu przestało bić - nie stwierdził dlaczego."

Translation:

"The coroner wrote in his report that Sandra's heart simply stopped beating - he didn't determine why".


Drop what? You started it and you can stop it if you wish.

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And I'm telling you yet another time that the mother says that the cause of death, i.e. why Sandra's heart stopped beating wasn't given. Do you understand?

So, I'm asking you again - do you think the mother is lying?


How about you follow your own advice.


I am doing no such thing. You commented on my post first and you can stop anytime, so stop being a baby.


That's not the only problem with this case though - judging by the articles I've read.

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So do you claim the mother is lying?


So are you. As Lenka put it, your only argument is that "oh, our police wouldn't". 🙄


No, I'm only responding to your posts lol You commented on my post first, remember? So why do you keep doing that? :)


That's what you're doing. Your blind defense of the British police is disrespectful towards Sandra and her family, undignified, hysterical and perpetuating the mother's misery.

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Unless they didn't manage to determine the cause of death. "Heart stopping to beat" isn't a cause of death. The heart always stops to beat when people die. So - do you think the mother is lying?


I wouldn't be surprised if you were making this up, considering what bullsh1t you're writing.


Yes, it is a serious matter - that's why I wrote about it. And you don't know if she died of natural causes. You just choose to believe that the British police did a good job. I, however, choose to believe the mother and the detective, until what they are saying will be somehow disproven.


Exactly.

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Her mother already said that the cause of death wasn't given. You think she's lying?


From many of your comments on this forum.


If what the mother and the detective are saying is true then it defenitely looks like a shocking case of neglect on the part of the police and probably the coroner too.

Do you think the mother and the detective are lying to Polish media?


Firstly, you don't know whether she's reading anything, whether she's reading this forum (highly unlikely) or even if she knows English. So stop lying.

Secondly, I'm only repeating what she said herself, so stop using a grieving mother in your argument against me, because it's just low and dishonest.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


The fact that it was closed doesn't mean that questions shouldn't be asked whether it was done right.


So what is the cause of Sandra's death?


Jon357, it was you who commented on my post first. You didn't have to do that and you didn't have to continue this either.

You're making this girl's death all about your British pride which I find pretty sickening. You don't care about this girl and the truth - you just care about defending your countrymen. You don't even consider the possibility that something went wrong in that investigation.

And all I did was asking a question: "A shocking case of neglect by the London police?" It wasn't a statement - it was a question, because, obviously, I don't know what really happened. But I'd like to know and I hope that Sandra's family will get to know the truth about her death - whatever that truth may be.


Are you? 🤔

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


What is so "offensive" about it? And which part is "rubbish"?


Of course not.


How do you know that? You don't. I don't know that either.


Yes, I'd say a police investigation is a police matter :D

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


And how do you know that? lol And does she even know English?


Well, since the British media aren't writing about it and the British police press officer won't open his mouth to the Polish media that's the only way to go for now.


:D
Well, I'm not a telepath and I don't know what they "think" lol


And the mother said that it didn't state why her daughter's heart stopped beating. So no wonder she "moved heaven and earth" to try and find out what happened.

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So what is the cause of death?

And where is that link I asked for?


Yes. Those neighbours are the only witnesses. And the mother and the detective talked to them. The mother and the detective talked to Polish media. The representatives of the British police didn't agree to talk to Polish media, however, and so we have no other info.


lol
I'm only repeating myself, because you don't seem to be reading what I'm writing. You could also simply read the article I linked to and it doesn't look like you did.


I'm not perpetuating the mother's grief. Have you completely lost your mind from that British chauvinism? o_O

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How long did it take for the public to find out about it? The authorities failed those girls. The UK isn't perfect, jon357. There are no perfect countries and there are no perfect nations. Although you apparently think that the UK is and the British are perfect and everything in UK is perfect - I'm not sure why you're clinging to this belief so hard...


The detective said they weren't.


Stop it, jon357. Really - stop it. You don't have to go so low. And for what? For such a "non-story"?


She isn't reading comments on this forum, you messed up demagogue.
And I'm mainly repeating what was written in Polish articles. The British police is free to deny all of that, but I don't see them doing that.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


Link?


What? Bruises on her face? Moved by whom and when? What are you talking about? The neighbours said that she had the bruises already when they found her lying dead on the couch.


Because according to Polish articles the cause of death wasn't given. It wasn't stated why the heart stopped beating.


What heart problems? Wouldn't that be given as the cause of death then? "The heart stopped beating most probably due to..." and not just "the heart stopped beating". Also, her family said that her ECG tests were showing that everything was OK.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


Yes, jon357, every male police officer is saying such things publicly and into the face of his boss, so he could get promptly fired, of course :))) On what kind of planet are you living? Isn't it called "La La Land" by any chance? ;D


Yes, the UK has it's own issues from what I've heard and read. That's why I have two other theories.


So how "many people of different professions" where involved in Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal? 🙄


I'm guessing that this is what the mother meant.


Judging by what the mother said the only information given was that Sandra's "heart stopped beating".

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No, that's a real life comment.


Majority are though and you have no idea who the mother was dealing with and if she was "supported by Polish speaking police staff" at all.


Of course they do lol 🤦 Especially men in such cases.


Didn't you read what I wrote? The mother said that according to the coroner her daughter's heart "stopped beating". He didn't say why it stopped beating. If it was your child you wouldn't want to know WHY the heart of your 19-year-old daughter stopped beating, especially considering the suspicious circumstances?

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


Then what was the illness that killed her? What was she suffering from?


The police should know the cause of death though and tell the girl's mother what was the cause of her daughter's death.

And if they don't know what caused her death then the investigation should be continued.


Those flatmates were sons of some rich or influential people, for example? 🤔

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You mean Polish men who say that "Polki tylko wyjadą do UK to się z Arabami puszczają. Dziwki."?


I'm sure they would be terribly helpful, as always lol


So what was the cause of her death?


Until the British police says otherwise and explains why they are not suspects in this case, I will think they weren't questioned.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]


Well, if that's the case then there's nothing simpler then the police press officer telling this to the Polish media and explaining the cause of death of a healthy 19-year-old girl.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?! [243]

@jon357, if it was such a "non-story" I doubt the Polish prosecutor's office would get involved.


It doesn't mean it can't happen. Besides, I don't know if the mother knew about all those procedures. She came from Poland when she found out about her daughter's death, she didn't live in the UK.

Why didn't they say what was the cause of her death? Why did she have bruises on her face, legs and arms? Why the flatmates weren't questioned? Why DNA wasn't secured? Why the police didn't unblock Sandra's phone (the family can't get into it)?